Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 13659 times)

Offline Oli

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: 12/19/2017 09:45 PM »
Okay, so yesterday I had the chance to watch the movie in the local cinema.

It's not a bad movie, but it's also not a great one. A typical modern movie with excessive use of graphic effects, way too much action. The good thing is that it's following the traditions of the franchise - jedi, sith, and the characters are compatible with their background. However, the storyline is an incoherent mess.

As a result, this movie, although not that bad, is a perfect representation of why I hate modern trends. My eye is satiated, but my brain is hungry for a good story.

I feel the story in modern big budget movies is just there to glue spectacular set pieces together somehow, no wonder it always turns out to be a mess. Funnily enough, despite all the action, almost all good action movies have been made in the 80/90s.


Offline Lars-J

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: 12/19/2017 10:07 PM »
Well, I saw it again today with a friend.  He had not seen it yet, and while he felt disappointed, I actually enjoyed it a bit more, but still not enough to call it anywhere near the best Star Wars movie.  I am hoping, Episode 9 brings everything together, and will make this movie seem better.  But that should not be necessary.  I think Empire Strikes Back was a great middle of a trilogy. And frankly, I like Attack of the Clones a lot more than this movie as a middle.

Oh I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 10:09 PM by Lars-J »

Offline Khadgars

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: 12/19/2017 10:15 PM »
Thank you guys for hiding the spoilers, nicely done ( I couldn't prevent myself from peeking at this thread even though I knew there could be spoilers)!  Going to see it this Saturday, I've been waiting to see Luke kick some arse for almost 30 years! 

Let me guess, Rey is a daughter of Yodi?  ;D
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 10:15 PM by Khadgars »

Offline AlexP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: 12/19/2017 10:24 PM »
It didn't go where I wanted it to go, and I love it all the more for it. During the Force Awakens I felt that familiar buzz of excitement throughout, with the familiar feel and returning characters from childhood. But during the Last Jedi, I felt joy, sorrow, surprise and awe in a way I haven't done during a Star Wars film since that original trilogy.

Perfect it isn't, worthy it very much is.

Online KelvinZero

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: 12/20/2017 12:05 AM »
Oh I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.
I remember being disappointed by Empire Strikes Back initially. It had those two separate story lines with a muddy "to be continued" conclusion.

I like ESB now, when viewed as the middle of three. It actually had a lot of story arc and character development. Viewed as one massive movie, it was a good act 2 in a Three-act structure

(apologies if that is spoilers to anyone :) )

Offline RocketLover0119

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #45 on: 12/20/2017 12:32 AM »
saw the movie yesterday, a few bits and bobs came that i thought were interesting

SPOILERS AHEAD[1[


[spoilers][2]


The part I thought was interesting most was when Leia came back from the dead, because Carrie Fisher is dead, i assumed they would just kill her off. and Last, SNOKE. IS. CREEPY (but dead) 8) :)


[/spoilers]

edit/Lar:
1 - That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works
2 - seriously, I have to do this for you? (I kid...)
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 01:01 AM by Lar »
"The Falcon has landed"

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #46 on: 12/20/2017 01:31 AM »
Well, I saw it again today with a friend.  He had not seen it yet, and while he felt disappointed, I actually enjoyed it a bit more, but still not enough to call it anywhere near the best Star Wars movie.  I am hoping, Episode 9 brings everything together, and will make this movie seem better.  But that should not be necessary.  I think Empire Strikes Back was a great middle of a trilogy. And frankly, I like Attack of the Clones a lot more than this movie as a middle.

Oh I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.

Really?  I remember myself and my friends  seeing it several times that summer when we first got our driver's licenses! I don't remember anything about it being controversial.  I read all the articles in Starlog back then, as that was my only source of news for science fiction.  I don't remember anything negative or any of those questions. We were in awe of it, even more than the original....then we got ewoks 3 years later.  The only debate we had was Darth Vader lying to Luke about being his father.  Maybe my circle of knowledge missed the controversy. 

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #47 on: 12/20/2017 04:05 PM »
...I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.

Really?  I remember myself and my friends  seeing it several times that summer when we first got our driver's licenses! I don't remember anything about it being controversial.  I read all the articles in Starlog back then, as that was my only source of news for science fiction.  I don't remember anything negative or any of those questions. We were in awe of it, even more than the original....then we got ewoks 3 years later.  The only debate we had was Darth Vader lying to Luke about being his father.  Maybe my circle of knowledge missed the controversy.

Ron, Starlog gushed in great floods of blind approval over every single effects-laden space opera of the era.  I recall one issue devoted entirely to a TV series that would change televised science fiction forever, and from that moment forward would be the impossible-to-reach bar that all future TV SF would be compared against!

The show?  Buck Rogers in the 25th Century!  <beedabeedabeedabbeep>

ESB was roundly panned at the time for some rather bad structural issues [1], as well as what was considered a very unsatisfying ending.  I recall numberless discussions at the time about how "middle episodes of trilogies are always the weakest of the three pieces" and such.  For myself, Episode IV remains as the best film, mainly due to its use of Aristotlean dramatic unities, in which you can speculate that the entire period of the story and the Hero's self-discovery, except for the final chorus (the medal presentation scene), takes place in one 24-hour period.  That and its careful attention to how myth is structured -- it is one of the first films in the history of the cinema to set out to almost perfectly tell the first third of the Path of the Hero myth, and it succeeds on all levels in that sense.

ESB, on the other hand, was the middle third of the Path of the Hero, where the Hero stumbles and regresses from his first zenith, which happened at the discovery of his path and his power.  As such, before the Hero finds his ultimate redemption, the middle section of that myth will always be less emotionally satisfying than either the discovery episode or the mastery/sacrifice episode.

So, yeah -- ESB had a lot of negative reaction when it came out.  It was only after the entire trilogy was done, as a whole entity, that ESB rose to be regarded as one of the strongest pieces.

[1] -- in ESB, starting at the departure from Hoth and the point where our heroes were separated, their stories dilate in time.  Han and Leia spend, apparently, just a few hours in their flight from the Star Destroyers, and by the time they decide they ought to head for Cloud City, Luke has been training with Yoda for an apparent period of months.  As I say, that structural problem bothered more people than anything else, I think.
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 04:07 PM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #48 on: 12/20/2017 04:58 PM »
I don't expect anything like real physics in a Star Wars movie, but still..

[spoilers]

forget it. i cant get the spoiler thing to work
[/spoilers]
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 05:01 PM by bad_astra »
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Offline Lar

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #49 on: 12/20/2017 05:42 PM »
I don't expect anything like real physics in a Star Wars movie, but still..

[spoilers]

forget it. i cant get the spoiler thing to work
[/spoilers]

Quote someone else's post to see the markup used and copy it.  It's tedious but not impossible.
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Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #50 on: 12/20/2017 08:13 PM »
...I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.

Really?  I remember myself and my friends  seeing it several times that summer when we first got our driver's licenses! I don't remember anything about it being controversial.  I read all the articles in Starlog back then, as that was my only source of news for science fiction.  I don't remember anything negative or any of those questions. We were in awe of it, even more than the original....then we got ewoks 3 years later.  The only debate we had was Darth Vader lying to Luke about being his father.  Maybe my circle of knowledge missed the controversy.

[1] -- in ESB, starting at the departure from Hoth and the point where our heroes were separated, their stories dilate in time.  Han and Leia spend, apparently, just a few hours in their flight from the Star Destroyers, and by the time they decide they ought to head for Cloud City, Luke has been training with Yoda for an apparent period of months.  As I say, that structural problem bothered more people than anything else, I think.

Never even though of this as a problem.  I thought it was obvious the the Falcon had to spend a long time to get to Bespin from Hoth without hyperdrive.  But I never got the impression Luke was on Dagobah for more than a few days anyway.  Where were these issues discussed?  I suppose my total isolation in a small town in central Illinois kept me in the dark of this.

I loved Empire from day 1.  I had always assumed that was why I did not Return of the Jedi as much, but I still loved it.  But I still don't think anything tops the original either. 

I do wonder what time will do for The Last Jedi.  When the entire trilogy is played out, will it flow better than I think it does now?  I guess I will find out in two years.

Offline mike robel

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #51 on: 12/20/2017 09:18 PM »
I think the best movie thus far is Star Wars: Rouge 1 (which I would have really liked it to be Star Wars:  A Forlorn Hope) followed by Star Wars:  A New Hope.  The others all pretty much look repetitious.

The Last Jedi was mostly enjoyable.  I am very skilled at suspending my disbelief and just absorbing it.  They could have left Finn out of the entire movie and it would not have made any difference to the plot and cut out a few tiresome scenes.  I had some hope for him from episode 7.  Not so much anymore.


Offline jgoldader

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #52 on: 12/21/2017 04:03 AM »
It was a poor, unfocused story, poorly directed.  Props to Mark Hamill, who did the best anybody could do with what he was given to work with.  The movie seriously needed some Rogue One (maybe "Solo") reshoot-level reworking.
Recovering astronomer

Offline zodiacchris

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #53 on: 12/22/2017 11:25 AM »
Saw it today with a friend, we both came out shaking our heads and sorely disappointed. Having followed Star Wars since 77, and having liked the last one, I found this flashy, soppy, illogical trash, all bling and action, and the storyline sucks, badly.   :-[

Offline mme

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #54 on: 01/01/2018 08:00 PM »
[image text quote]
Space bombers do not work that way.
[/image text quote]
I had the same thought but it's not like any of the physics of Star Wars makes any sense or is consistent beyond "looks cool."  And I say that as someone that eagerly anticipates every release (even though Ep. I-III retroactively ruined my childhood.)
« Last Edit: 01/01/2018 08:01 PM by mme »
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Online nacnud

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #55 on: 01/01/2018 08:20 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!

Offline mme

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #56 on: 01/01/2018 08:28 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!
That's what I meant to imply but you said it much better. :)
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Online nacnud

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #57 on: 01/01/2018 08:34 PM »
I really want to dive into the central tenet of the movie,

[spoilers]

which is dealing with failure, hence the whole Canto Bight sequence etc.

[/spoilers]

but I can't be having with spoilers.  ;D
« Last Edit: 01/01/2018 09:00 PM by nacnud »

Offline AlexP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #58 on: 01/01/2018 09:13 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!
The criticism around the bombs baffles me. Not only for the reason you said, but...there's gravity inside the ships, right? And that's where the bombs are...

Offline Crispy

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #59 on: 01/01/2018 09:28 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!
The criticism around the bombs baffles me. Not only for the reason you said, but...there's gravity inside the ships, right? And that's where the bombs are...
Also there's gravity on board the enemy ship. How far out does the gravity "field" stretch?

This is exactly the sort of conversation that kills enjoyment of this sort of movie, of course :)

I thought TLJ was great. Subverted expectations, gave everyone a satisfying arc, and had some unforgettable set-pieces.

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