Author Topic: Apollo 10 mystery sound  (Read 19895 times)

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #20 on: 02/22/2016 03:23 PM »
It must not have been too spooky because all of them flew in space again and two of the crew went back to the far side of the moon.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #21 on: 02/22/2016 03:58 PM »
Seeking clarification:
Is this audio content NEVER released or heard by those outside Apollo operations?

Or is this content re-released now, but considered "new" information, because there's a lot of folks out there who believe all content that isn't on the Internet is ignored/pre-history?

As other comments in this thread suggest, this phenomenon appears to have been known of by those in Apollo operations, and by knowledgeable Apollo-philes outside the program.  (It's new information to me.)  They recognized it as some form of radio interference or feedback within the Apollo system, and went on with their lives.

Just as a for-instance, has any reporter actually followed up with anyone of the above-mentioned informed groups?  Or checked the mission reports, oral interviews, etc.?

ADDED: The radio network coverage that I heard this evening driving home--most likely it was WTOP/CBS News--referred to the sounds being heard above the "dark side of the Moon" (which does not equal the far side of the Moon from Earth).

The radio report did not include interviews, or quotes from interviews, of any Apollo astronauts, Apollo operations staff (example: mission controllers), or Apollo scholars.

My opinion: A tempest in a teacup.
« Last Edit: 02/23/2016 12:39 AM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #22 on: 02/22/2016 05:18 PM »
which would explain its prolonged period of classification.

How about apathy as a reason for the long period.  Static condition for most classified information in the past is to remain classified. Declassification is a proactive task.  Somebody has to actively find the record and then work the declassification review, which take resources (time, money, personnel, etc).  Keeping something in a safe, once it is in a safe, doesn't take much resources.

That is a very good point about the length of the classification period, but what about the initial decision to classify the tapes in the first place? Consider the facts that we do know:

1. NASA was concerned enough about the possible existence of ET microbes to require a 3-week quarantine period for the early Apollo landing crews;

2. Project Blue Book was still ongoing, although it was shut down at the end of 1969;

3. the "outer-spacey music" only occurred during Far Side portions of the orbit;

4. there is no known natural radio source that would cause such "music";

5. we are certain that we NOW know that the "music" was an artifact caused by radio interference or other onboard electronic noise, but at the time of Apollo 10 it was initially a mystery.

The strategy at the time, considering the known and unknown unknowns concerning the Moon, apparently was to rule nothing out on an a priori basis, until it could be ruled out empirically. Hence the worry over Andromeda Strain lunar microbes--it seems silly to us now, but it was taken seriously at the time.

Similarly, to us in 2016, talk of intelligent aliens on the Dark Side of the Moon sounds like Hoagland-esque "woo-woo", (as the Apollo 10 astronauts described the "music"). But in early 1969, there was little empirical evidence that could rule out an alien Moon base on the Dark Side of the Moon; therefore, until such evidence existed, as a matter of national security, the USG would not have ruled out the possibility that there might be aliens over there.

As to whitelancer's contention that the tapes were classified because possible military applications to jamming of radio signals, that is hard to believe IMO. The radios were more or less ordinary VHF radios, albeit they were space-rated: certainly attempts by the Soviets to jam Apollo radio signals could be ruled out since the Apollo spacecraft was on the Far Side of the Moon. They were not encrypted AFAIK. And anyways, the radios were working perfectly; contact with Earth was reestablished the second they were within line-of-sight with the Earth.

Therefore, it appears IMHO that the initial decision to classify the tapes is because they weren't sure that the origin of the "outer spacey music" was NOT of alien origin. The lore that has been handed down is that even as early the as Apollo 11, the "music" was explained away as an onboard electronic noise; and thus, as Jim suggests, the classification would have continued through mere bureaucratic inertia.

The interesting point remains: that the emergence of these "outer spacey" tapes is evidence that NASA attempted to coverup evidence of intelligent ETs visiting our Solar System. The latter evidence was totally spurious of course, and hence it was declassified once someone took the proactive steps to get it declassified. But the fact that the "music" proved to be spurious is beside the point: the point being that evidently NASA took the recommendations of the old Brookings Institute's report to heart: namely that it might be better to withhold such information from the public, given the hysterical reaction demonstrated during Orson Welles radio broadcast of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds.

Which entails that if NASA ever did have non-spurious evidence of aliens--THEY WOULDN'T TELL US!

So when NASA assures us there is no evidence for aliens in this solar system, that is most likely very well to be the case, but we cannot believe it to be true on the basis of NASA's moral authority, as they have now proven that they would keep secret any such evidence.   :-X

It makes one wonder. We've got a 91-one year old ex-president and former head of the CIA saying "Americans can't handle the truth". Either the guy's still sharp as a tack, retaining a sly, sarcastic sense of humor, or else he's completely senile, or ____________. Then there's the current President. Maybe he knows something we don't when cancelled the Constellation program, in favor of a goal that's perpetually 30 years in the future. Perfectly good Saturn V's mothballed...  :o

Trust me, I don't want to believe....  ;D

« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 05:32 PM by Warren Platts »
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Offline Jim

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #23 on: 02/22/2016 05:22 PM »
There also could have suspicion of Soviet interference.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #24 on: 02/22/2016 05:41 PM »

[snip]
As to whitelancer's contention that the tapes were classified because possible military applications to jamming of radio signals, that is hard to believe IMO. The radios were more or less ordinary VHF radios, albeit they were space-rated: certainly attempts by the Soviets to jam Apollo radio signals could be ruled out since the Apollo spacecraft was on the Far Side of the Moon. They were not encrypted AFAIK. And anyways, the radios were working perfectly; contact with Earth was reestablished the second they were within line-of-sight with the Earth.

Therefore, it appears IMHO that the initial decision to classify the tapes is because they weren't sure that the origin of the "outer spacey music" was NOT of alien origin. The lore that has been handed down is that even as early the as Apollo 11, the "music" was explained away as an onboard electronic noise; and thus, as Jim suggests, the classification would have continued through mere bureaucratic inertia.

The interesting point remains: that the emergence of these "outer spacey" tapes is evidence that NASA attempted to coverup evidence of intelligent ETs visiting our Solar System. The latter evidence was totally spurious of course, and hence it was declassified once someone took the proactive steps to get it declassified. But the fact that the "music" proved to be spurious is beside the point: the point being that evidently NASA took the recommendations of the old Brookings Institute's report to heart: namely that it might be better to withhold such information from the public, given the hysterical reaction demonstrated during Orson Welles radio broadcast of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds.

Which entails that if NASA ever did have non-spurious evidence of aliens--THEY WOULDN'T TELL US!

So when NASA assures us there is no evidence for aliens in this solar system, that is most likely very well to be the case, but we cannot believe it to be true on the basis of NASA's moral authority, as they have now proven that they would keep secret any such evidence.   :-X

It makes one wonder. We've got a 91-one year old ex-president and former head of the CIA saying "Americans can't handle the truth". Either the guy's still sharp as a tack, retaining a sly, sarcastic sense of humor, or else he's completely senile, or ____________. Then there's the current President. Maybe he knows something we don't when cancelled the Constellation program, in favor of a goal that's perpetually 30 years in the future. Perfectly good Saturn V's mothballed...  :o

Trust me, I don't want to believe....  ;D

It makes total sense. It seems that we were unsure of what was causing the radio interference, that would be of high interest to the military. This was the cold war, and we knew the Soviets were listening in, it is entirely plausible that we thought that possibly they were attempting to interfere with our radio signals.

The military interest alone warrants classification. Again, there's utterly no need to think this has anything to do with aliens.
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Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #25 on: 02/22/2016 07:17 PM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #26 on: 02/22/2016 07:33 PM »
Can I just point something out, please?  This thread and many of the links use the term "dark side of the moon".  There is no "dark side of the moon" other than the name of a famous musical album.  The "far side of the moon" from Earth's perspective is illuminated as often as the side that faces us is illuminated.  Now, the moon's material is a bit dark so the whole thing is a bit dark, especially compared with how it appears in the night sky (as bright white) but it's still illuminated.

I think nothing could make these points clearer than this video.

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/from-a-million-miles-away-nasa-camera-shows-moon-crossing-face-of-earth

While it's certainly not as bright as the white clouds on Earth, it's not too dissimilar in brightness to the land masses visible on our planet in the background of that video.

Offline wolfpack

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #27 on: 02/22/2016 07:41 PM »
Somebody has to actively find the record and then work the declassification review, which take resources

Or you could have a staffer email it from a private server.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #28 on: 02/22/2016 08:46 PM »
What is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens.

Maybe it's just that NASA was 100% sure that releasing the tapes would generate a lot of nonsense about aliens that it did not want to deal with.

Respectfully disagree. Avoidance of nonsense is not a justification for classification. You call it nonsense now--but that is with the benefit of 50 years of hindsight. E.g., after the first few missions to the Moon, the astronauts were kept in quarantine in modified airstream trailers for like three weeks--much longer than the actual mission. We look back on that now and think about how paranoidally crazy that was, but at the time it was considered a legitimate safety precaution.

<SNIP>

But the question remains: If they were not sure that the "music" was not of alien origin, then why classify it? 40 years of classification goes beyond ordinary data embargoes that last until the scientists get their story straight. The only answer is that there must be a US government policy that extended to NASA, that in the words of the immortal George H. W. Bush, that "Americans can't handle truth" when it comes to the possible existence of intelligent extraterrestrial aliens...

Oh Kay...

In a nut shell; 

     Likely NASA Classified the tapes, at first, because they really weren't quite sure just what the heck the sound on them were.

     The nefarious reason that nobody declassified them?

     NASA wound up doing so many different things during Apollo and afterwards, they just plain forgot about the tapes.  To give you an idea how this could happen, NASA lost a number of original video tapes from the Apollo moon landings that were taken directly from the video feed from the moon.

     At the time, so much was happening, things that were not immediately mission essential and did not impact safety, were set aside and often forgotten.

     One should never attribute to conspiracy what can more easily and logically be explained as pure human forgetfulness...  (I would have said incompetence, but these people were MORE than competent, they just had WAY too much to deal with on their plates).

     On a side note; One has to wonder, If NASA had of slowed the pace of lunar flights to one a year and increased the stay time on the moon, would this have both worked better in the budget and have kept the interest of the public longer?  I suspect that part of the reason that the public lost interest was three fold;

One, the Viet Nam War
Two, oversaturation due to pace of flights.
Three, a REALLY crappy PR department.

(Not so much the last one, but they REALLY could have used some help from Hollyweird to promote the space program.  This is part of the reason that I KNOW the Moon landings were no hoax).
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #29 on: 02/22/2016 08:49 PM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.

Actually, I don't think that there's enough evidence one way or another yet.

Might be something there, but nobody's going to spend decades going over all the data from the more recent probes looking for something that most likely isn't there.

I wouldn't be completely surprised if there was something there, but I HIGHLY doubt it.
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Offline MattMason

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #30 on: 02/22/2016 08:54 PM »
NASA's official Google+ account notes that this story's information has been available for study since 1973.

I've heard stranger sounds coming from the Apollo 13 flight controller loop, 2 hours into the accident, as the controllers were fighting comm frequencies between Aquarius and the S-IVB transmitting on the same frequency and screwing up spacecraft tracking as well.
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Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #31 on: 02/22/2016 10:52 PM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.
Serious.  The moon exists.  The only way to get the public interested in space exploration again is to look at interesting features near the Earth.  The presence of microbes on Mars has never been proven, but there are are many instruments being sent to Mars to look for microbes.  So why not look for alien archeology on the moon?  The public would eat it up. 

Most of the materials that comprise our solar system are strongly believed to be 4.6+ billion years old.  What if one finds something on the moon that was much much older? 

If the theory goes that life on Earth started from comets or asteroids impacting Earth, there ought to be some clues on the moon to differentiate that theory as fact or myth.  But I'm with you... I say life generating asteroids it's a fraudulent myth.



Quote
The moon exists.

Well, I have to agree with that.

Alien archeology is an oxymoron. Do you know the definition of archeology? Here is a definition, emphasis mine.

Quote
Archaeology, or archeology, is the study of human activity through the recovery and analysis of material culture. The archaeological record consists of artifacts, architecture, biofacts or ecofacts, and cultural landscapes.

Quote
If the theory goes that life on Earth started from comets or asteroids impacting Earth, there ought to be some clues on the moon to differentiate that theory as fact or myth.

I've never bought the whole panspermia theory, but evidence for it would hardly constitute archeology, and a failure to find evidence for it on the moon would not disprove it.

If NASA stated that they were looking for alien archeology on the moon they would lose all credibility with the scientific community, and most of congress. (I wouldn't say all of congress given the yahoos who don't believe in science there now.)

Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #32 on: 02/23/2016 12:12 AM »
Alex Jones? Really?

I'm very sorry. I hope you have a happy landing.

The post this refers to has been deleted . Thankfully.
« Last Edit: 02/23/2016 02:39 AM by A8-3 »

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #33 on: 02/23/2016 12:22 AM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.

Actually, I don't think that there's enough evidence one way or another yet.

Huh?  That LRO hasn't spotted?

Offline Stan-1967

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #34 on: 02/23/2016 12:24 AM »
Probably it was the result of a couple of factors IMO: the gain on the radio receivers would have automatically cranked up, and thus picked up electronic interference from the other equipment in the spacecraft. Computers in those days were known to project radio emissions that could be picked up by radios. Here is a video of an old DEC computer generating interference that is picked up by a transistor AM radio:


I read similar reasoning from the link on Drudge.  It was the only comment that had any thought or factual possibility.    I'm old enough to have had AM/FM radios that I could hear it search out & amplify signals when the tuner got close enough.   Unless this "wooh wooh" sound is transmitting prime number, pi, e, or some ridiculously obvious signal, it's pretty satisfying to go with a audio circuit amplifying any electronic noise it could find.

« Last Edit: 02/23/2016 12:25 AM by Stan-1967 »

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #35 on: 02/23/2016 12:32 AM »
I hadn't heard the tape before.  Sounds a lot like theremin music, or some of the other electronically generated music from the 50s and 60s.  In particular, it sounds an awful lot like the score from Forbidden Planet.

As Mike Collins described it in his 1973 book Carrying the Fire -- an eerie sound well-suited for an eerie place.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline kking

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #36 on: 02/23/2016 01:19 AM »
The audio is online at the internet archive site. Its been online for sometime now.

https://archive.org/details/Apollo10

Its tape 10-030702 5 of 6 44 minutes into tape.

Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #37 on: 02/23/2016 02:51 AM »
Quote
believing whatever you want

More insightful than you probably realize.

Offline Hoonte

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #38 on: 02/23/2016 10:09 AM »
Transcript on the Apollo Flight Journal website

http://history.nasa.gov/ap10fj/as10-day5-pt20.htm

102:13:02 Cernan (in Snoopy): That music even sounds outer-spacey, doesn't it? You hear that? That whistling sound?

102:13:06 Stafford (in Snoopy): Yes.

102:13:07 Cernan (in Snoopy): Whooooooooooo.

102:13:12 Young: Did you hear that whistling sound, too?

102:13:14 Cernan (in Snoopy): Yeah. Sounds like - you know, outer-space-type music.

102:13:18 Young: I wonder what it is.

Online meberbs

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #39 on: 02/23/2016 02:15 PM »
There is a lot of discussion on here about why these tapes were classified. The problem is I haven't seen any good sources that they were classified to begin with. Just some news articles with no sources, and I have seen plenty of misinformation passed around that way.

For one thing, classification is a DOD thing, not a NASA thing. DOE also has an equivalent "Restricted Data" to cover nuclear info. NASA has no such thing. I have seen classified NASA work, but that was on projects in cooperation with the DOD.

Also, none of the articles even mention what the original classification was, another good sign they don't have a real source.

And here are some articles that actually quote people from NASA, stating that this is not newly declassified, as contrary to popular opinion, "not available on the internet" does not mean classified.

http://gizmodo.com/this-classified-alien-music-the-internet-is-freaking-ou-1760628645
http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/22/space-music-heard-on-the-far-side-of-the-moon-and-the-science-behind-it/

Now, can we move on to more useful baseless speculation such as why this interference was more prominent on the other side of the moon?

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