Author Topic: Apollo 10 mystery sound  (Read 19869 times)

Offline AegeanBlue

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Apollo 10 mystery sound
« on: 02/22/2016 12:51 AM »
Currently a trending topic on facebook which has led to a large number of articles is a mystery sound, reminiscent of music, that was heard by the Apollo 10 astronauts while they were on the back side of the moon. Apparently they talk about it on the season premiere of NASA's Unexplained Files. NASA intends to release this sound to the internet, soon. Since I have not seen any thread, I decided to start one. Would anyone like to speculate what the mystery sound may be?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #1 on: 02/22/2016 01:13 AM »
probably a system sound that was covered up when there was radio traffic with Earth.

Offline Graham

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #2 on: 02/22/2016 01:17 AM »
probably a system sound that was covered up when there was radio traffic with Earth.
I believe a more likely explanation is that aliens were performing Dark Side of the Moon, on the Dark Side of the Moon.  ;)
« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 01:19 AM by Graham »
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Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #3 on: 02/22/2016 02:09 AM »
This was actually reported by most of the Apollo missions from 10 onwards.  It was heard over the VHF comm link between the CSM and LM, and has been described variously as a "wooh-wooh" kind of sound, a "whooshing" sound and a sound like wind rustling through tree limbs.  It was heard mostly while the vehicles were talking to each other on the far side, but also at times while they talked with each other via the VHF radio on the near side, as well.

I've never seen any resolution as to where the sound came from, but it's obviously some kind of EM interference in the VHF bands.  Could have been a solar wind effect, I guess, or an effect from the solar wind impingement on the Moon.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #4 on: 02/22/2016 02:27 AM »
Since this was four years before Pink Floyd released Dark Side of the Moon, it is probably safe to assume that they heard the recording and plagiarized aliens for their music.   ;) 8)

Online topo334

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #5 on: 02/22/2016 02:49 AM »
I saw an article about this on Huffington Post.Huff produced a video made up of still images and their own added synthesizer sounds, zero content. This sort of thing is commonly known as "clickbait". designed to get the viewer onto another page or pages so additional advertising revenue is generated. Father Jack had a word for it; Fek!!!

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #6 on: 02/22/2016 03:56 AM »
I see Drudge has picked up the story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3456741/Apollo-10-astronauts-heard-mysterious-music-far-moon-newly-uncovered-tapes-reveal-no-wasn-t-Pink-Floyd.html?ito=social-facebook#comments

(Has embedded video that apparently plays some of the "music" toward the last 30 seconds or so.)

What is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens. Which entails that if NASA ever did find any actual evidence of intelligent extraterrestrials, they would keep it a secret. Which raises the question: What else is still classified?
« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 04:02 AM by Warren Platts »
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Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #7 on: 02/22/2016 04:00 AM »
Probably it was the result of a couple of factors IMO: the gain on the radio receivers would have automatically cranked up, and thus picked up electronic interference from the other equipment in the spacecraft. Computers in those days were known to project radio emissions that could be picked up by radios. Here is a video of an old DEC computer generating interference that is picked up by a transistor AM radio:

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Offline kking

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #8 on: 02/22/2016 06:02 AM »
I hope we get the audio soon. The internet archive already has a bunch of onboard tapes online from Apollo 10, not all of them. Can't wait to hear the rest.

Offline lcs

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #9 on: 02/22/2016 06:12 AM »
Mike Collins said many years ago in "Carrying the Fire" that NASA engineers told him the sound was due to interference between the LM and CSM VHF radios.  It only occurred when they were in close proximity.
« Last Edit: 02/25/2016 02:51 AM by lcs »

Offline Star One

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #10 on: 02/22/2016 08:42 AM »

Mike Collins said many years ago in "Caryying the Fire" that NASA engineers told him the sound was due to interference between the LM and CSM VHF radios.  It only occurred when they were in close proximity.

What like feedback or is it called howl around?

Offline Proponent

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #11 on: 02/22/2016 08:57 AM »
What is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens.

Maybe it's just that NASA was 100% sure that releasing the tapes would generate a lot of nonsense about aliens that it did not want to deal with.

Offline kch

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #12 on: 02/22/2016 09:12 AM »
probably a system sound that was covered up when there was radio traffic with Earth.

I believe a more likely explanation is that aliens were performing Dark Side of the Moon, on the Dark Side of the Moon.  ;)

:)

Offline hopalong

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #13 on: 02/22/2016 10:11 AM »
Probably it was the result of a couple of factors IMO: the gain on the radio receivers would have automatically cranked up, and thus picked up electronic interference from the other equipment in the spacecraft. Computers in those days were known to project radio emissions that could be picked up by radios. Here is a video of an old DEC computer generating interference that is picked up by a transistor AM radio:



PDP8/e - That takes me back to when I was doing my CSE Computer Studies (UK school exam for 15/16 year olds) back in '75. we had use of a PDP8/e with all of 4K of core store  :)

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #14 on: 02/22/2016 10:59 AM »

PDP8/e - That takes me back to when I was doing my CSE Computer Studies (UK school exam for 15/16 year olds) back in '75. we had use of a PDP8/e with all of 4K of core store  :)

lol! Reminds of my first computer class--the first ever taught at our high school--must have been around '78 or '79, the Commodore PETS had 8K memory. We used to play those Avalon Hill wargames; my first project was to automate all the dice and charts used in "Tobruk". Maxed out the memory, but we got a chip that doubled it to 16K! ;)
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Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #15 on: 02/22/2016 12:00 PM »
What is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens.

Maybe it's just that NASA was 100% sure that releasing the tapes would generate a lot of nonsense about aliens that it did not want to deal with.

Respectfully disagree. Avoidance of nonsense is not a justification for classification. You call it nonsense now--but that is with the benefit of 50 years of hindsight. E.g., after the first few missions to the Moon, the astronauts were kept in quarantine in modified airstream trailers for like three weeks--much longer than the actual mission. We look back on that now and think about how paranoidally crazy that was, but at the time it was considered a legitimate safety precaution.

Which brings us back to the decision to classify the Apollo 10 Dark Side of the Moon tapes. Why would they do that? It couldn't have had anything to with what the Soviets were doing. There was no new technology involved they were trying to protect. If it was normal (inanimate) radio emissions of scientific interest it wouldn't have been classified. If they were 100.000% sure it was just onboard radio interference, it wouldn't have been classified.

Remember, at the time of Apollo 10 (May 1969),the USAF's Project Blue Book was still open, and the Air Force continued to investigate UFO reports through at least the mid-1970's, particularly those seen near atomic bomb tests. Therefore, the NASA at the time would not have been in a position to conclusively rule the presence of intelligent ETs within the inner Solar System.

Indeed, if you think about it, if you were an ET studying human life on Earth, while operating under a version of Star Trek's "Prime Directive" (prohibition of interfering with the evolution of primitive intelligent species like humans), what better place to set up your FOB than the Dark Side of the Moon: close yet hidden from sight.

It was very strange that the "music" only seemed to occur on the Dark Side. Given the state of scientific knowledge at the time, Project Blue Book, speculation about deadly lunar microbes, and the weirdness of the "space music" that only seemed to occur during Dark Side passages, the folks at NASA could not have been 100.000% sure that the "music" was NOT from an intelligent ET source.

Probably they had a team of people that attempted to decipher any hidden meaning to it.

But the question remains: If they were not sure that the "music" was not of alien origin, then why classify it? 40 years of classification goes beyond ordinary data embargoes that last until the scientists get their story straight. The only answer is that there must be a US government policy that extended to NASA, that in the words of the immortal George H. W. Bush, that "Americans can't handle truth" when it comes to the possible existence of intelligent extraterrestrial aliens...
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #16 on: 02/22/2016 01:22 PM »
Probably it was the result of a couple of factors IMO: the gain on the radio receivers would have automatically cranked up, and thus picked up electronic interference from the other equipment in the spacecraft. Computers in those days were known to project radio emissions that could be picked up by radios. Here is a video of an old DEC computer generating interference that is picked up by a transistor AM radio:


Reminds me of when I was in college and the CS kids lift the feet on the VAX 11/780 hard drives and race them down the hall. Good times!
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #17 on: 02/22/2016 02:17 PM »
Anything that keeps spaceflight on the minds and wagging tongues of John Q is a good thing... ;D
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Offline whitelancer64

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #18 on: 02/22/2016 02:56 PM »
A lot of the classified information on Apollo was related to the technology involved. NASA was borrowing cutting edge military technology to send people to the Moon, and surveillance cameras from the CIA for lunar imaging, and so on, and that sort of thing was highly classified at the time.

There are various levels of classification and a wide variety of time periods that things can remain classified, anywhere from a couple of years to decades.

Generally, documents can only remain classified for longer than 25 years if they are related to weapons of mass destruction, or military, government, or intelligence operations or there are national security concerns.

Documents can only remain classified for longer than 50 years if they are closely related to weapons of mass destruction or would compromise military, government, or intelligence operations.

Documents or information older than 75 years require special permissions to remain classified.

I would speculate that the reason for the classification of the Apollo 10 audio is that the communications technology was vital to the military. Anything that might interfere with radio transmissions would be of high interest, whether to figure out if it could be used against our enemies or to figure out a way to neutralize it. Radio communications technology, both for transmitting and jamming of signals, remains an area of active military research, which would explain its prolonged period of classification.

No need whatsoever for aliens to be involved.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #19 on: 02/22/2016 03:02 PM »
which would explain its prolonged period of classification.

How about apathy as a reason for the long period.  Static condition for most classified information in the past is to remain classified. Declassification is a proactive task.  Somebody has to actively find the record and then work the declassification review, which take resources (time, money, personnel, etc).  Keeping something in a safe, once it is in a safe, doesn't take much resources.

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #20 on: 02/22/2016 03:23 PM »
It must not have been too spooky because all of them flew in space again and two of the crew went back to the far side of the moon.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #21 on: 02/22/2016 03:58 PM »
Seeking clarification:
Is this audio content NEVER released or heard by those outside Apollo operations?

Or is this content re-released now, but considered "new" information, because there's a lot of folks out there who believe all content that isn't on the Internet is ignored/pre-history?

As other comments in this thread suggest, this phenomenon appears to have been known of by those in Apollo operations, and by knowledgeable Apollo-philes outside the program.  (It's new information to me.)  They recognized it as some form of radio interference or feedback within the Apollo system, and went on with their lives.

Just as a for-instance, has any reporter actually followed up with anyone of the above-mentioned informed groups?  Or checked the mission reports, oral interviews, etc.?

ADDED: The radio network coverage that I heard this evening driving home--most likely it was WTOP/CBS News--referred to the sounds being heard above the "dark side of the Moon" (which does not equal the far side of the Moon from Earth).

The radio report did not include interviews, or quotes from interviews, of any Apollo astronauts, Apollo operations staff (example: mission controllers), or Apollo scholars.

My opinion: A tempest in a teacup.
« Last Edit: 02/23/2016 12:39 AM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #22 on: 02/22/2016 05:18 PM »
which would explain its prolonged period of classification.

How about apathy as a reason for the long period.  Static condition for most classified information in the past is to remain classified. Declassification is a proactive task.  Somebody has to actively find the record and then work the declassification review, which take resources (time, money, personnel, etc).  Keeping something in a safe, once it is in a safe, doesn't take much resources.

That is a very good point about the length of the classification period, but what about the initial decision to classify the tapes in the first place? Consider the facts that we do know:

1. NASA was concerned enough about the possible existence of ET microbes to require a 3-week quarantine period for the early Apollo landing crews;

2. Project Blue Book was still ongoing, although it was shut down at the end of 1969;

3. the "outer-spacey music" only occurred during Far Side portions of the orbit;

4. there is no known natural radio source that would cause such "music";

5. we are certain that we NOW know that the "music" was an artifact caused by radio interference or other onboard electronic noise, but at the time of Apollo 10 it was initially a mystery.

The strategy at the time, considering the known and unknown unknowns concerning the Moon, apparently was to rule nothing out on an a priori basis, until it could be ruled out empirically. Hence the worry over Andromeda Strain lunar microbes--it seems silly to us now, but it was taken seriously at the time.

Similarly, to us in 2016, talk of intelligent aliens on the Dark Side of the Moon sounds like Hoagland-esque "woo-woo", (as the Apollo 10 astronauts described the "music"). But in early 1969, there was little empirical evidence that could rule out an alien Moon base on the Dark Side of the Moon; therefore, until such evidence existed, as a matter of national security, the USG would not have ruled out the possibility that there might be aliens over there.

As to whitelancer's contention that the tapes were classified because possible military applications to jamming of radio signals, that is hard to believe IMO. The radios were more or less ordinary VHF radios, albeit they were space-rated: certainly attempts by the Soviets to jam Apollo radio signals could be ruled out since the Apollo spacecraft was on the Far Side of the Moon. They were not encrypted AFAIK. And anyways, the radios were working perfectly; contact with Earth was reestablished the second they were within line-of-sight with the Earth.

Therefore, it appears IMHO that the initial decision to classify the tapes is because they weren't sure that the origin of the "outer spacey music" was NOT of alien origin. The lore that has been handed down is that even as early the as Apollo 11, the "music" was explained away as an onboard electronic noise; and thus, as Jim suggests, the classification would have continued through mere bureaucratic inertia.

The interesting point remains: that the emergence of these "outer spacey" tapes is evidence that NASA attempted to coverup evidence of intelligent ETs visiting our Solar System. The latter evidence was totally spurious of course, and hence it was declassified once someone took the proactive steps to get it declassified. But the fact that the "music" proved to be spurious is beside the point: the point being that evidently NASA took the recommendations of the old Brookings Institute's report to heart: namely that it might be better to withhold such information from the public, given the hysterical reaction demonstrated during Orson Welles radio broadcast of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds.

Which entails that if NASA ever did have non-spurious evidence of aliens--THEY WOULDN'T TELL US!

So when NASA assures us there is no evidence for aliens in this solar system, that is most likely very well to be the case, but we cannot believe it to be true on the basis of NASA's moral authority, as they have now proven that they would keep secret any such evidence.   :-X

It makes one wonder. We've got a 91-one year old ex-president and former head of the CIA saying "Americans can't handle the truth". Either the guy's still sharp as a tack, retaining a sly, sarcastic sense of humor, or else he's completely senile, or ____________. Then there's the current President. Maybe he knows something we don't when cancelled the Constellation program, in favor of a goal that's perpetually 30 years in the future. Perfectly good Saturn V's mothballed...  :o

Trust me, I don't want to believe....  ;D

« Last Edit: 02/22/2016 05:32 PM by Warren Platts »
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Offline Jim

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #23 on: 02/22/2016 05:22 PM »
There also could have suspicion of Soviet interference.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #24 on: 02/22/2016 05:41 PM »

[snip]
As to whitelancer's contention that the tapes were classified because possible military applications to jamming of radio signals, that is hard to believe IMO. The radios were more or less ordinary VHF radios, albeit they were space-rated: certainly attempts by the Soviets to jam Apollo radio signals could be ruled out since the Apollo spacecraft was on the Far Side of the Moon. They were not encrypted AFAIK. And anyways, the radios were working perfectly; contact with Earth was reestablished the second they were within line-of-sight with the Earth.

Therefore, it appears IMHO that the initial decision to classify the tapes is because they weren't sure that the origin of the "outer spacey music" was NOT of alien origin. The lore that has been handed down is that even as early the as Apollo 11, the "music" was explained away as an onboard electronic noise; and thus, as Jim suggests, the classification would have continued through mere bureaucratic inertia.

The interesting point remains: that the emergence of these "outer spacey" tapes is evidence that NASA attempted to coverup evidence of intelligent ETs visiting our Solar System. The latter evidence was totally spurious of course, and hence it was declassified once someone took the proactive steps to get it declassified. But the fact that the "music" proved to be spurious is beside the point: the point being that evidently NASA took the recommendations of the old Brookings Institute's report to heart: namely that it might be better to withhold such information from the public, given the hysterical reaction demonstrated during Orson Welles radio broadcast of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds.

Which entails that if NASA ever did have non-spurious evidence of aliens--THEY WOULDN'T TELL US!

So when NASA assures us there is no evidence for aliens in this solar system, that is most likely very well to be the case, but we cannot believe it to be true on the basis of NASA's moral authority, as they have now proven that they would keep secret any such evidence.   :-X

It makes one wonder. We've got a 91-one year old ex-president and former head of the CIA saying "Americans can't handle the truth". Either the guy's still sharp as a tack, retaining a sly, sarcastic sense of humor, or else he's completely senile, or ____________. Then there's the current President. Maybe he knows something we don't when cancelled the Constellation program, in favor of a goal that's perpetually 30 years in the future. Perfectly good Saturn V's mothballed...  :o

Trust me, I don't want to believe....  ;D

It makes total sense. It seems that we were unsure of what was causing the radio interference, that would be of high interest to the military. This was the cold war, and we knew the Soviets were listening in, it is entirely plausible that we thought that possibly they were attempting to interfere with our radio signals.

The military interest alone warrants classification. Again, there's utterly no need to think this has anything to do with aliens.
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Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #25 on: 02/22/2016 07:17 PM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.

Online Lee Jay

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #26 on: 02/22/2016 07:33 PM »
Can I just point something out, please?  This thread and many of the links use the term "dark side of the moon".  There is no "dark side of the moon" other than the name of a famous musical album.  The "far side of the moon" from Earth's perspective is illuminated as often as the side that faces us is illuminated.  Now, the moon's material is a bit dark so the whole thing is a bit dark, especially compared with how it appears in the night sky (as bright white) but it's still illuminated.

I think nothing could make these points clearer than this video.

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/from-a-million-miles-away-nasa-camera-shows-moon-crossing-face-of-earth

While it's certainly not as bright as the white clouds on Earth, it's not too dissimilar in brightness to the land masses visible on our planet in the background of that video.

Offline wolfpack

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #27 on: 02/22/2016 07:41 PM »
Somebody has to actively find the record and then work the declassification review, which take resources

Or you could have a staffer email it from a private server.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #28 on: 02/22/2016 08:46 PM »
What is interesting to me is that it was classified until 2008--nearly 40 years. This tells me that they weren't 100% sure it was not aliens.

Maybe it's just that NASA was 100% sure that releasing the tapes would generate a lot of nonsense about aliens that it did not want to deal with.

Respectfully disagree. Avoidance of nonsense is not a justification for classification. You call it nonsense now--but that is with the benefit of 50 years of hindsight. E.g., after the first few missions to the Moon, the astronauts were kept in quarantine in modified airstream trailers for like three weeks--much longer than the actual mission. We look back on that now and think about how paranoidally crazy that was, but at the time it was considered a legitimate safety precaution.

<SNIP>

But the question remains: If they were not sure that the "music" was not of alien origin, then why classify it? 40 years of classification goes beyond ordinary data embargoes that last until the scientists get their story straight. The only answer is that there must be a US government policy that extended to NASA, that in the words of the immortal George H. W. Bush, that "Americans can't handle truth" when it comes to the possible existence of intelligent extraterrestrial aliens...

Oh Kay...

In a nut shell; 

     Likely NASA Classified the tapes, at first, because they really weren't quite sure just what the heck the sound on them were.

     The nefarious reason that nobody declassified them?

     NASA wound up doing so many different things during Apollo and afterwards, they just plain forgot about the tapes.  To give you an idea how this could happen, NASA lost a number of original video tapes from the Apollo moon landings that were taken directly from the video feed from the moon.

     At the time, so much was happening, things that were not immediately mission essential and did not impact safety, were set aside and often forgotten.

     One should never attribute to conspiracy what can more easily and logically be explained as pure human forgetfulness...  (I would have said incompetence, but these people were MORE than competent, they just had WAY too much to deal with on their plates).

     On a side note; One has to wonder, If NASA had of slowed the pace of lunar flights to one a year and increased the stay time on the moon, would this have both worked better in the budget and have kept the interest of the public longer?  I suspect that part of the reason that the public lost interest was three fold;

One, the Viet Nam War
Two, oversaturation due to pace of flights.
Three, a REALLY crappy PR department.

(Not so much the last one, but they REALLY could have used some help from Hollyweird to promote the space program.  This is part of the reason that I KNOW the Moon landings were no hoax).
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #29 on: 02/22/2016 08:49 PM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.

Actually, I don't think that there's enough evidence one way or another yet.

Might be something there, but nobody's going to spend decades going over all the data from the more recent probes looking for something that most likely isn't there.

I wouldn't be completely surprised if there was something there, but I HIGHLY doubt it.
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Offline MattMason

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #30 on: 02/22/2016 08:54 PM »
NASA's official Google+ account notes that this story's information has been available for study since 1973.

I've heard stranger sounds coming from the Apollo 13 flight controller loop, 2 hours into the accident, as the controllers were fighting comm frequencies between Aquarius and the S-IVB transmitting on the same frequency and screwing up spacecraft tracking as well.
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Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #31 on: 02/22/2016 10:52 PM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.
Serious.  The moon exists.  The only way to get the public interested in space exploration again is to look at interesting features near the Earth.  The presence of microbes on Mars has never been proven, but there are are many instruments being sent to Mars to look for microbes.  So why not look for alien archeology on the moon?  The public would eat it up. 

Most of the materials that comprise our solar system are strongly believed to be 4.6+ billion years old.  What if one finds something on the moon that was much much older? 

If the theory goes that life on Earth started from comets or asteroids impacting Earth, there ought to be some clues on the moon to differentiate that theory as fact or myth.  But I'm with you... I say life generating asteroids it's a fraudulent myth.



Quote
The moon exists.

Well, I have to agree with that.

Alien archeology is an oxymoron. Do you know the definition of archeology? Here is a definition, emphasis mine.

Quote
Archaeology, or archeology, is the study of human activity through the recovery and analysis of material culture. The archaeological record consists of artifacts, architecture, biofacts or ecofacts, and cultural landscapes.

Quote
If the theory goes that life on Earth started from comets or asteroids impacting Earth, there ought to be some clues on the moon to differentiate that theory as fact or myth.

I've never bought the whole panspermia theory, but evidence for it would hardly constitute archeology, and a failure to find evidence for it on the moon would not disprove it.

If NASA stated that they were looking for alien archeology on the moon they would lose all credibility with the scientific community, and most of congress. (I wouldn't say all of congress given the yahoos who don't believe in science there now.)

Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #32 on: 02/23/2016 12:12 AM »
Alex Jones? Really?

I'm very sorry. I hope you have a happy landing.

The post this refers to has been deleted . Thankfully.
« Last Edit: 02/23/2016 02:39 AM by A8-3 »

Online Lee Jay

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #33 on: 02/23/2016 12:22 AM »
Quote
... NASA to investigate alien archeology sites on the moon ...

Are you serious? No one can investigate something that doesn't exist.

Actually, I don't think that there's enough evidence one way or another yet.

Huh?  That LRO hasn't spotted?

Offline Stan-1967

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #34 on: 02/23/2016 12:24 AM »
Probably it was the result of a couple of factors IMO: the gain on the radio receivers would have automatically cranked up, and thus picked up electronic interference from the other equipment in the spacecraft. Computers in those days were known to project radio emissions that could be picked up by radios. Here is a video of an old DEC computer generating interference that is picked up by a transistor AM radio:


I read similar reasoning from the link on Drudge.  It was the only comment that had any thought or factual possibility.    I'm old enough to have had AM/FM radios that I could hear it search out & amplify signals when the tuner got close enough.   Unless this "wooh wooh" sound is transmitting prime number, pi, e, or some ridiculously obvious signal, it's pretty satisfying to go with a audio circuit amplifying any electronic noise it could find.

« Last Edit: 02/23/2016 12:25 AM by Stan-1967 »

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #35 on: 02/23/2016 12:32 AM »
I hadn't heard the tape before.  Sounds a lot like theremin music, or some of the other electronically generated music from the 50s and 60s.  In particular, it sounds an awful lot like the score from Forbidden Planet.

As Mike Collins described it in his 1973 book Carrying the Fire -- an eerie sound well-suited for an eerie place.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline kking

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #36 on: 02/23/2016 01:19 AM »
The audio is online at the internet archive site. Its been online for sometime now.

https://archive.org/details/Apollo10

Its tape 10-030702 5 of 6 44 minutes into tape.

Offline A8-3

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #37 on: 02/23/2016 02:51 AM »
Quote
believing whatever you want

More insightful than you probably realize.

Offline Hoonte

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #38 on: 02/23/2016 10:09 AM »
Transcript on the Apollo Flight Journal website

http://history.nasa.gov/ap10fj/as10-day5-pt20.htm

102:13:02 Cernan (in Snoopy): That music even sounds outer-spacey, doesn't it? You hear that? That whistling sound?

102:13:06 Stafford (in Snoopy): Yes.

102:13:07 Cernan (in Snoopy): Whooooooooooo.

102:13:12 Young: Did you hear that whistling sound, too?

102:13:14 Cernan (in Snoopy): Yeah. Sounds like - you know, outer-space-type music.

102:13:18 Young: I wonder what it is.

Offline meberbs

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #39 on: 02/23/2016 02:15 PM »
There is a lot of discussion on here about why these tapes were classified. The problem is I haven't seen any good sources that they were classified to begin with. Just some news articles with no sources, and I have seen plenty of misinformation passed around that way.

For one thing, classification is a DOD thing, not a NASA thing. DOE also has an equivalent "Restricted Data" to cover nuclear info. NASA has no such thing. I have seen classified NASA work, but that was on projects in cooperation with the DOD.

Also, none of the articles even mention what the original classification was, another good sign they don't have a real source.

And here are some articles that actually quote people from NASA, stating that this is not newly declassified, as contrary to popular opinion, "not available on the internet" does not mean classified.

http://gizmodo.com/this-classified-alien-music-the-internet-is-freaking-ou-1760628645
http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/22/space-music-heard-on-the-far-side-of-the-moon-and-the-science-behind-it/

Now, can we move on to more useful baseless speculation such as why this interference was more prominent on the other side of the moon?

Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #40 on: 02/23/2016 02:58 PM »
I would have to agree, let's keep the ufology for other threads.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #41 on: 02/23/2016 04:31 PM »
Now, can we move on to more useful baseless speculation such as why this interference was more prominent on the other side of the moon?

That's a good question.  Here are a few speculations:

1)  To cover the subjective, perhaps it really wasn't more prominent on the far side.  Maybe the crews who commented on the interference sound only noticed it on the far side because they were not in contact with Houston, and so were less focused on the discussion and therefore more open to notice little background things, like interference noises.

For numbers 2 and 3, we have to ask the question "What was different about the physical situation on the far side from on the near side?"

2)  The Earth, which generates a lot of VHF radiation (especially in the '60s and '70s, from all the VHF TV stations), was blocked by the bulk of the Moon.  Interference patterns might develop in this case, where the background noise of all the VHF radiation from Earth isn't there to "de-tune" a local interference pattern.

3)  While on the near side, the CSM and LM S-band comm systems actively acquire and connect to the Earth stations in the Manned Spacecraft Network.  On the far side, the S-band comm systems remained powered up and ready to connect, but had no lock.  (The spacecraft could not communicate with each other over S-band, which always seemed odd to me.)  Perhaps the interference was inherent in the situation when the VHF comm system was in use and the S-band system was active but had no lock on any transmission source.

And finally, we have the particles-and-fields theory:

4)  The Moon overall maintains a "static" electrical charge, from its interaction both with the supersonic solar wind and the monthly (or, to the Moon, daily) passage through Earth's magnetotail.  It is a complex field interaction.  Now, as noted above, Earth does radiate VHF noise, and likely did moreso back in the Apollo era, when the major TV stations around the world broadcast on VHF frequencies.  Visualize a wave front of VHF noise arriving at the Moon and interacting with its complex charge field.  Some of the VHF energy will be bent and flow at an angle around the Moon's sphere; more of it will fly off in different directions.  All of it will pick up various new resonances from the interaction with the Moon's charge field.  Et voila, Bernard Hermann music on the far side of the Moon...

Just a few thoughts.  And remember, the actual reality may embody some effects from more than one of these theories -- or none of them.  As always, YMMV.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #42 on: 02/23/2016 04:54 PM »
If they were 100.000% sure it was just onboard radio interference, it wouldn't have been classified.

You're making an unwarranted assumption without evidence.

Radio noise produced by electronics can tell you a lot about the electronics.  Someone could easily have been worried that releasing the noise could have given an adversary insight into the electronics producing them.

Anyone familiar with the breaking of Enigma and other codes in World War II knows that various sorts of information that seemed harmless to the enemy ended up being critical to breaking codes.  You never know what an adversary is going to be able to do with seemingly harmless information related to a secret system, so it's reasonable to be cautious and not release such information when there's no compelling reason to do so.

In the Cold War, the U.S. government defaulted to classifying anything related to spaceflight unless there was some reason to release it.  There was no reason to release radio noise from Apollo.

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #43 on: 02/23/2016 04:56 PM »
There is a lot of discussion on here about why these tapes were classified. The problem is I haven't seen any good sources that they were classified to begin with.

See the front page of NASA's Apollo 10 Lunar Module (LM) Onboard Voice Transcription:

Group 4, Downgraded at 3 Year Intervals, Declassified After 12 Years

This material contains information affecting the national defense of the United States within the meaning of the espionage laws, Title 18, U.S.C. section 793 and 794. The transmission or revelation of which in any manner to an unauthorized person is prohibited by law.


(Of course that applies to the entire transcript, not just certain portions, so the current references to the audio being classified are to the whole recording, not just the radio interference section specifically.)
« Last Edit: 02/23/2016 05:00 PM by collectSPACE »

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #44 on: 02/23/2016 05:59 PM »
There is a lot of discussion on here about why these tapes were classified. The problem is I haven't seen any good sources that they were classified to begin with.

See the front page of NASA's Apollo 10 Lunar Module (LM) Onboard Voice Transcription:

Group 4, Downgraded at 3 Year Intervals, Declassified After 12 Years

This material contains information affecting the national defense of the United States within the meaning of the espionage laws, Title 18, U.S.C. section 793 and 794. The transmission or revelation of which in any manner to an unauthorized person is prohibited by law.


(Of course that applies to the entire transcript, not just certain portions, so the current references to the audio being classified are to the whole recording, not just the radio interference section specifically.)

Of all the proposals, this one sounds the most reasonable and likely. The "music" was classified because everything was classified as a matter of course. Which seemingly entails that the outer-spacey music was never considered to be a potential wow-signal in the first place. Or was it?

Still, I remain curious: we know that NASA had a policy in place to deal with extraterrestrial life--albeit at the microbial level. Thus, the question remains: Was there (and is there) a NASA policy for dealing with close encounters with actual space-faring intelligent aliens? NASA would seem almost remiss in their duties if there was not such a policy in place, given the relative state of ignorance regarding the rest of the Solar System at the time; after all, the US Air Force was still running Project Blue Book!  ;)
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #45 on: 02/23/2016 06:04 PM »

-SNIP-
Still, I remain curious: we know that NASA had a policy in place to deal with extraterrestrial life--albeit at the microbial level. Thus, the question remains: Was there (and is there) a NASA policy for dealing with close encounters with actual space-faring intelligent aliens? NASA would seem almost remiss in their duties if there was not such a policy in place, given the relative state of ignorance regarding the rest of the Solar System at the time; after all, the US Air Force was still running Project Blue Book!  ;)

NASA does not and never has had a policy for dealing with aliens. Nor does any other spacefaring nation.
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Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #46 on: 02/23/2016 06:09 PM »
As for why the signal only apparently happened on the Dark Side, isn't it the case that the radios were programmed to automatically seek out signals from Earth? In which case, once behind the Moon, the reception gain would have maxed out, making them hypersensitive to receiving any sort of electronic noise generated by the old fashioned electronics onboard.

As for the proper terminology--Dark Side vs. Far Side--there is a grain of truth to the Dark Side appellation, in that the Near Side receives a lot of Earth-light during the lunar night. At "full Earth", the Moon would receive like 23 times more light than the Earth receives during a full Moon. So even at night, it would be rather bright. You could probably read a newspaper easily. On the Far Side however, stygian blackness always prevails at night. It really is darker over there.

Long time nsf contributor "Hop" explains it well on his blog here:

http://hopsblog-hop.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-dark-side-of-moon.html
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #47 on: 02/23/2016 06:13 PM »

NASA does not and never has had a policy for dealing with aliens. Nor does any other spacefaring nation.

So it's the Air Force's or USSTRATCOM's job?
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #48 on: 02/23/2016 06:41 PM »
A quick gander at nasa.gov could only recover one page on UFOs:

Quote
No branch of the United States Government is currently involved with or responsible for investigations into the possibility of alien life on other planets or for investigating Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's). The U.S. Air Force (USAF) and NASA have had intermittent, independent investigations of the possibility of alien life on other planets; however, none of these has produced factual evidence that life exists on other planets, nor that UFO's are related to aliens.

Under Project Blue Book (1947 to 1969), the Air Force investigated UFO's; then in 1977, NASA was asked to examine the possibility of resuming UFO investigations. After studying all of the facts available, it was determined that nothing would be gained by further investigation ...

The last part is kind of interesting. Does anybody know anything about the 1977 study? Guess that would have been under President Carter. Strange...
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #49 on: 02/23/2016 06:53 PM »
I see spudis just put out an article on the "unexplained" music!

http://www.airspacemag.com/daily-planet/mysterious-apollo-music-explained-180958193/?no-ist
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."--Leonardo Da Vinci

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #50 on: 02/23/2016 07:19 PM »
A quick gander at nasa.gov could only recover one page on UFOs:

Quote
No branch of the United States Government is currently involved with or responsible for investigations into the possibility of alien life on other planets or for investigating Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's). The U.S. Air Force (USAF) and NASA have had intermittent, independent investigations of the possibility of alien life on other planets; however, none of these has produced factual evidence that life exists on other planets, nor that UFO's are related to aliens.

Under Project Blue Book (1947 to 1969), the Air Force investigated UFO's; then in 1977, NASA was asked to examine the possibility of resuming UFO investigations. After studying all of the facts available, it was determined that nothing would be gained by further investigation ...

The last part is kind of interesting. Does anybody know anything about the 1977 study? Guess that would have been under President Carter. Strange...

A report summarizing the events of 1977 can be found here:

henry.pha.jhu.edu/aaaLibrary/ufosNASA.pdf

Copies of the original letter from the White House and the subsequent correspondence from NASA start on page 17

Basically, the White House wanted to shift the burden of dealing with UFO reports and inquiries from itself to NASA. NASA looked into the previous ten years of UFO reports, decided that there wasn't anything worth investigating, and declined, with the caveat that if there were any hard evidence of UFOs available in the future, then NASA would be only too glad to investigate it.
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Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #51 on: 02/23/2016 07:54 PM »
Another indication that the "mystery sound" was an interference problem in the hardware, from the Apollo Flight Journal:


103:47:58 Stafford (in Snoopy): That weird noise is on VHF B.

103:48:01 Cernan (in Snoopy): It's a what?

103:48:02 Stafford (in Snoopy): It's on VHF B.

103:48:03 Cernan (in Snoopy): Is that right?

103:48:04 Stafford (in Snoopy): Yes.


So, the noise was only coming through on one of the VHF circuits.  The other circuit wasn't getting it.  That pretty clearly makes it an interference issue with the circuit itself, not a real signal being picked up and transformed into sound.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline Danderman

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #52 on: 02/23/2016 09:34 PM »
Another indication that the "mystery sound" was an interference problem in the hardware, from the Apollo Flight Journal:


103:47:58 Stafford (in Snoopy): That weird noise is on VHF B.

103:48:01 Cernan (in Snoopy): It's a what?

103:48:02 Stafford (in Snoopy): It's on VHF B.

103:48:03 Cernan (in Snoopy): Is that right?

103:48:04 Stafford (in Snoopy): Yes.


So, the noise was only coming through on one of the VHF circuits.  The other circuit wasn't getting it.  That pretty clearly makes it an interference issue with the circuit itself, not a real signal being picked up and transformed into sound.


which begs the question of why it wasn't heard on the near side of the Moon.

Offline meberbs

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #53 on: 02/23/2016 11:11 PM »
There is a lot of discussion on here about why these tapes were classified. The problem is I haven't seen any good sources that they were classified to begin with.

See the front page of NASA's Apollo 10 Lunar Module (LM) Onboard Voice Transcription:

Group 4, Downgraded at 3 Year Intervals, Declassified After 12 Years

This material contains information affecting the national defense of the United States within the meaning of the espionage laws, Title 18, U.S.C. section 793 and 794. The transmission or revelation of which in any manner to an unauthorized person is prohibited by law.


(Of course that applies to the entire transcript, not just certain portions, so the current references to the audio being classified are to the whole recording, not just the radio interference section specifically.)

I guess it was classified then, if only at the Confidential level and declassified in 1981, not 2008 like the "news" articles are claiming. I will leave out speculation on why they thought it was worth classifying, since there was and still exists a "classify it just to be safe" philosophy that seems to be too common.

As for why the signal only apparently happened on the Dark Side, isn't it the case that the radios were programmed to automatically seek out signals from Earth? In which case, once behind the Moon, the reception gain would have maxed out, making them hypersensitive to receiving any sort of electronic noise generated by the old fashioned electronics onboard.

So in that case it was just a matter of them not bothering to turn off the earth communication antennas when not in use. If they were the same antennas used to communicate between the modules, then this shouldn't have been an issue. since they were still in communication.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #54 on: 02/24/2016 02:52 AM »
As for why the signal only apparently happened on the Dark Side, isn't it the case that the radios were programmed to automatically seek out signals from Earth? In which case, once behind the Moon, the reception gain would have maxed out, making them hypersensitive to receiving any sort of electronic noise generated by the old fashioned electronics onboard.

So in that case it was just a matter of them not bothering to turn off the earth communication antennas when not in use. If they were the same antennas used to communicate between the modules, then this shouldn't have been an issue. since they were still in communication.

The CSM and LM VHF radio systems were pretty separate from the S-band systems used to communicate with Earth.  The only commonality was in the wiring out to the headsets and back from the microphones.  The CSM and LM each had one S-band steerable high-gain antenna; the CSM had four omni-directional S-band antennas and the LM had two.  The CSM had two VHF omni antennas, the LM had one, and they were different from the S-band omni antennas, located in different places.

The original Earth-orbital versions of the CSM and early LMs also had C-band radio circuits, with their own half-hoop-shaped antennas, but those radios and antennas never flew on the lunar Apollos.

The S-band systems were not powered down every time the CSM and/or LM went around the back side of the Moon, they just kept running.  The steerable antennas were generally not selected on the back side, to keep them from driving looking for a signal; one of the omnis was usually selected.  This kept the antenna drives from running.  But the S-band electronics kept operating, even though the crew was not selecting to transmit via S-band.

The comm system could be set up such that a given crewman could be transmitting S-band to and from Earth, VHF between spacecraft, or both at once,  In addition, there was a mode they used when they didn't want to have the VHF powered up and they were on the near side -- they could enable the MSFN relay and have all contact between the spacecraft go through Houston.  That entailed a fierce delay between a statement made by someone in the LM being heard by the CM pilot, and vice-versa, but it sufficed when the two spacecraft were out of line-of-sight, and when they just didn't want the power drain of running the VHF circuits when they weren't really needed.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #55 on: 02/24/2016 05:48 AM »
Can I just point something out, please?  This thread and many of the links use the term "dark side of the moon".  There is no "dark side of the moon" other than the name of a famous musical album.  The "far side of the moon" from Earth's perspective is illuminated as often as the side that faces us is illuminated.  Now, the moon's material is a bit dark so the whole thing is a bit dark, especially compared with how it appears in the night sky (as bright white) but it's still illuminated.

I think nothing could make these points clearer than this video.

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/from-a-million-miles-away-nasa-camera-shows-moon-crossing-face-of-earth

While it's certainly not as bright as the white clouds on Earth, it's not too dissimilar in brightness to the land masses visible on our planet in the background of that video.

You're being too literal.  The term "dark side of the moon" has been used for decades for the side away from the Earth.  It's not because people are or were ignorant and thought it was literally dark.  It's like the term "dark ages" -- nobody thinks the dark ages were literally a time with less sunlight.

Just as with "dark ages", the "dark" in "dark side of the moon" refers to a lack of knowledge.  The term was coined before we had seen that side of the moon.

It's fine if you prefer a different term, but don't be too harsh on people who use the term "dark side of the moon" -- it doesn't indicate ignorance, simply the use of a common term with a different meaning of the word "dark".

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #56 on: 02/24/2016 07:54 AM »
Indeed. The "dark web" isn't dark because there's no fiber optics to it. Sometimes I think Neil deGrass Tyson has turned everyone into tiresome ignorant pedantics.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Online Ronpur50

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #57 on: 02/24/2016 10:10 PM »
I have just found this story, and I am a bit confused.  I remember reading something about radio noise on Apollo flights behind the moon when I was about 12 or 13.  That would have been the mid 70s.  My memory is rather fuzzy on it, was a long time ago. Why is this suddenly being claimed to have been classified before now? 

I suppose I could be remembering something else......

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #58 on: 02/24/2016 10:29 PM »
I have just found this story, and I am a bit confused.  I remember reading something about radio noise on Apollo flights behind the moon when I was about 12 or 13.  That would have been the mid 70s.  My memory is rather fuzzy on it, was a long time ago. Why is this suddenly being claimed to have been classified before now? 

I suppose I could be remembering something else......

The noises heard on the VHF radio sets behind the Moon on the Apollo missions have been known -- not classified -- since at least 1973, when Mike Collins' book Carrying the Fire came out which described what he heard on Apollo 11.

The transcripts of the on-board recordings were classified for several years, and were then declassified, something like 12 years after the flights.  The recordings themselves weren't classified all this time, they just weren't archived in a publicly accessible format until relatively recently.

The recording in question, from Apollo 10, has been linked to at the Apollo Flight Journal website for some time.  So, it hasn't even been recently released.

The furor is media-generated and exacerbated by poor reporting.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #59 on: 02/24/2016 10:50 PM »

NASA does not and never has had a policy for dealing with aliens. Nor does any other spacefaring nation.

So it's the Air Force's or USSTRATCOM's job?

No, no US government agency has a set policy regarding the discovery of aliens or alien contact. Nor, so far as I'm aware, does any other nation or any other nation's agencies, nor nearly all other international agencies.

The only (so far as I'm aware) international agency on Earth with a set policy of what to do if they discover evidence of or make contact with aliens is SETI. Basically their plan is to call in experts to triple-check to see if what they have is real and then they call up the UN to set up an international press conference.

That's probably also along the lines of what would happen if NASA or any other government agency (or any other nation or their agencies) discovered evidence for aliens.
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Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #60 on: 02/25/2016 01:06 AM »

NASA does not and never has had a policy for dealing with aliens. Nor does any other spacefaring nation.

So it's the Air Force's or USSTRATCOM's job?

No, no US government agency has a set policy regarding the discovery of aliens or alien contact. Nor, so far as I'm aware, does any other nation or any other nation's agencies, nor nearly all other international agencies.

The only (so far as I'm aware) international agency on Earth with a set policy of what to do if they discover evidence of or make contact with aliens is SETI. Basically their plan is to call in experts to triple-check to see if what they have is real and then they call up the UN to set up an international press conference.

That's probably also along the lines of what would happen if NASA or any other government agency (or any other nation or their agencies) discovered evidence for aliens.

The U.N. talked about setting up a specific policy about five years ago, but I can't find any indication that they actually adopted one.

The best info on the web about this seems to be Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-detection_policy

This, of course, has nothing whatsoever to do with the radio interference heard on Apollo missions' VHF radio sets.

At all.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Online Ronpur50

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #61 on: 02/25/2016 12:07 PM »
I have just found this story, and I am a bit confused.  I remember reading something about radio noise on Apollo flights behind the moon when I was about 12 or 13.  That would have been the mid 70s.  My memory is rather fuzzy on it, was a long time ago. Why is this suddenly being claimed to have been classified before now? 

I suppose I could be remembering something else......

The noises heard on the VHF radio sets behind the Moon on the Apollo missions have been known -- not classified -- since at least 1973, when Mike Collins' book Carrying the Fire came out which described what he heard on Apollo 11.

The transcripts of the on-board recordings were classified for several years, and were then declassified, something like 12 years after the flights.  The recordings themselves weren't classified all this time, they just weren't archived in a publicly accessible format until relatively recently.

The recording in question, from Apollo 10, has been linked to at the Apollo Flight Journal website for some time.  So, it hasn't even been recently released.

The furor is media-generated and exacerbated by poor reporting.

Collins' book is exactly where I read it in.  My school library had a copy that I checked out a few times over the years.

Offline jak Kennedy

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #62 on: 02/25/2016 12:23 PM »
How do they have recordings from the dark side of the moon? I didn't know they carried tapes and recording equipment on the space craft. Seems like a lot of unnecessary weight if so.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #63 on: 02/25/2016 12:45 PM »
How do they have recordings from the dark side of the moon? I didn't know they carried tapes and recording equipment on the space craft. Seems like a lot of unnecessary weight if so.

Oh, but you're wrong.  Both the CM and the LM had onboard tape recorders -- called DSE equipment -- which they could turn on and off, or the ground could turn on and off remotely.

The reason was that several critical maneuvers on an Apollo mission occurred out of radio contact with Earth, on the far side of the Moon.  The DSE recorded both the voices from the cockpit and the telemetry stream normally transmitted back to Houston.  Thus, not only the crew comments but also detailed engineering data about the spacecraft performance were recorded.

The on-board recordings were transcribed and those transcriptions have been available online for literally decades.  They make for some entertaining reading at times -- especially from more of the colorful crews, like Conrad's Apollo 12 crew...
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #64 on: 02/25/2016 12:57 PM »
The on-board recordings were transcribed and those transcriptions have been available online for literally decades.  They make for some entertaining reading at times -- especially from more of the colorful crews, like Conrad's Apollo 12 crew...
I always thought that the more interesting noise coming from the Apollo 10 communications systems occurred when they staged the LEM and ignited the ascent stage.

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Apollo 10 mystery sound
« Reply #65 on: 02/26/2016 03:34 PM »
Does anybody know anything about the 1977 study? Guess that would have been under President Carter. Strange...

A report summarizing the events of 1977 can be found here:

henry.pha.jhu.edu/aaaLibrary/ufosNASA.pdf

Copies of the original letter from the White House and the subsequent correspondence from NASA start on page 17

Basically, the White House wanted to shift the burden of dealing with UFO reports and inquiries from itself to NASA. NASA looked into the previous ten years of UFO reports, decided that there wasn't anything worth investigating, and declined, with the caveat that if there were any hard evidence of UFOs available in the future, then NASA would be only too glad to investigate it.

Thanks for the link. The Journal for Scientific Exploration may not be the most prestigious journal on the Planet, but that is a good article by an actual NASA scientist working at Washington HQ at the time. Turns out that Jimmy Carter himself had reported seeing a UFO while he was still the governor of Georgia. I can see him bugging the Air Force for the Truth at Area 51 and thinking he was getting stonewalled!  ;D Apparently he was more interested in the heavens than most presidents--according to the article, he asked if he could borrow a telescope from NASA to take with him to Camp David over a Thanksgiving weekend. A telescope was promptly flown up from MSFC!

Anyway, the result was probably the closest thing to a NASA policy statement concerning UFOs that is out there (see attachment below):

Quote
if a new element of hard evidence that UFOs exist is brought
to NASA's attention from a credible source, NASA will analyze the
unexplained organic or inorganic sample and report its findings....

There is an absence of tangible or physical evidence
available for thorough laboratory analysis. And, because of
the absence of such evidence, we have not been able to devise a
sound scientific procedure for investigating these phenomena.
To proceed on a research task without a sound disciplinary
framework and an exploratory technique in mind would be wasteful
and probably unproductive....

I wish in no way to indicate that NASA has come to any
conclusion about these phenomena as such; institutionally, we
retain an open mind....

As for the classification of the Apollo 10 transcript, I took a look at the facsimile that SpaceCollector linked to. As he stated, the whole thing was marked "CONFIDENTIAL", but it may have been declassified even before 12 years was up (1981) as the NASA Information Sheet 78-1 (dated February 1, 1978) states that "The air-to-ground tapes of all manned missions are available at the Johnson Space Center, Houston, for review by the serious researcher."

As for the outer-spacey music, it seemed that the guys were more impressed by the awesome scenery going by, and more worried by the all the master caution alarms going off, not to mention fuel pressure gauges that were reading zero!  ;)

« Last Edit: 02/26/2016 03:37 PM by Warren Platts »
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