Author Topic: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)  (Read 108268 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #420 on: 12/18/2017 05:01 PM »
Quote
George Whitesides, Virgin Galactic: will be finishing up facilities at Spaceport America in 2018. Most done now; working now on ďcustomer-facingĒ elements. #NSRC2017
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/942811422001696769

Quote
Whitesides: making ďgood progressĒ on flight test program for SpaceShipTwo. Glide test program (which started just over a year ago) has gone well. No details (yet) on upcoming powered flight tests. #NSRC2017
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/942812867895660545

Quote
Whitesides: Italian Space Agency has signed  letter of intent to purchase a full SS2 research flight, with an Italian payload specialist flying on it. Scheduled for 2019. #NSRC2017
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/942814324262883328

Quote
Whitesides: doing a lot of work on the vehicle to prepare it for powered test flights. Anticipating a full series of test flights in 2018; will take the time to do it right. #NSRC2017
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/942815094555148289

Quote
Whitesides: still planning to do one more glide flight before beginning powered test flights. #NSRC2017
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/942815982908858368

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #421 on: 12/19/2017 12:54 PM »
Jeff Foust's write-up of yesterday's remarks:

Quote
Virgin Galactic signs SpaceShipTwo research flight deal with Italian space agency
by Jeff Foust ó December 19, 2017

http://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-signs-spaceshiptwo-research-flight-deal-with-italian-space-agency/
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 12:54 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online Comga

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #422 on: 12/19/2017 11:41 PM »
Jeff Foust's write-up of yesterday's remarks:

Quote
Virgin Galactic signs SpaceShipTwo research flight deal with Italian space agency
by Jeff Foust ó December 19, 2017

http://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-signs-spaceshiptwo-research-flight-deal-with-italian-space-agency/

This was stated at the Suborbital Research Conference in Broomfield, Colorado yesterday.
Foustís SpaceNews article has nothing really new about SpaceShip Two. 
Another glide flight planned. An undetermined or just unstated number of powered flights and no projected dates for entry into commercial service. The billion or billion and a half dollar investment by Saudi Arabia is still being negotiated. NASAís flight has not occurred because SpaceShip Two hasnít flown.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #423 on: 12/21/2017 03:23 PM »
Audio recording of a talk last week by Jim Vanderploeg, Virgin Galatcticís cheif medical officer:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/video-and-audio-archive-stewart-named-lecture-2017/

Quote
This yearís lecture reviews the past 10 years of progress toward preparing for routine space flight for members of the public. The lecturer reviews the regulatory and legal climate affecting preparations for flying commercial space flight participants under the auspices of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration. Results from research conducted to evaluate the challenges presented by the broad range of individuals wishing to fly to space on commercial vehicles will be discussed.  Dr. Vanderploeg includes a review of pre-flight testing and training used to identify and quantify the medical risks for commercial space flight participants and the mitigation of those risks.  The lecture concludes with the application of results and recommendations from research and practical experience to the medical program at Virgin Galactic.  As commercial space flight operations commence over the next one to two years, the opportunities to practice Aerospace Medicine in new and exciting ways will become a reality.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #424 on: 12/23/2017 12:01 AM »
Posting this here as it is not relevant to SpaceX.

SpaceX should be able to claim the cost of the booster as a tax deduction if it is donated to a museum. That's why SpaceShip One ended up in the Smithsonian, instead of taking up tourists.

Spaceship One did not fly tourists because it was too unstable and dangerous... thatís why it was retired immediately, a tax deduction was not a major factor.

OK, that is not my understanding. Here is Paul Allen saying they achieved a net positive return from the donation.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=I2XUC0mp4wIC&pg=PT299&lpg=PT299&dq=spaceship+one++smithsonian+tax&source=bl&ots=qeZN7sRoP-&sig=PzsMPcKrbDfvYnwcD7TQyObjNlg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjj-oeV9J7YAhWFW5QKHUswBekQ6AEITjAG#v=onepage&q=spaceship%20one%20%20smithsonian%20tax&f=false

"As predicted, SpaceShipOne wound up taking longer and costing more than planned. The final price tag was $28 million, money well spent. Adding up the X Prize, the tax credit from our Smithsonian donation, and the Virgin licensing revenues, we achieved a net positive return by 2006."

Do you have a reference that says Paul Allen donated SpaceShipOne because it wasn't safe?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #425 on: 12/23/2017 12:31 AM »
Steven, he said it didn't fly tourists because it was unstable and dangerous - not that it was donated for that reason. This is, of course, a non-sequitur - Soyuz is unstable and dangerous and has flown the only "tourists" that have ever flown to space. Rutan simply thought he could do better than SpaceShipOne and with Richard Branson's money he had the chance. Then he retired... and here we are.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Online Andy Bandy

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #426 on: 12/23/2017 04:00 AM »
Rutan had a plan to continue flying SpaceShipOne with friends of his and Allen as passengers to popularize space tourism. But Allen had enough and decided not to fund any additional flights. I believe he was unnerved by some of the things that had happened during test flights. So he figured hey I can quit while I'm ahead and claim a hefty tax credit for the donation before this thing crashes and kills some people and there's nothing left to put in the Smithsonian.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #427 on: 01/08/2018 12:08 PM »
Guys?

This article just appeared on Parabolic Arc:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/08/richard-bransons-latest-memoir-lost-space/


There's a lot of harsh criticism there.

What do you think?


Offline Kabloona

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #428 on: 01/09/2018 01:59 AM »
Guys?

This article just appeared on Parabolic Arc:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/08/richard-bransons-latest-memoir-lost-space/


There's a lot of harsh criticism there.

What do you think?

The essence of Doug's criticism is this quote from his post:

Quote
More than 14 years after Taiís accidental discovery, Branson is still waiting for his ride to space along with about 650 Virgin Galactic ticket holders. The SpaceShipTwo program has consumed more than $600 million while producing more deaths (4) than successful powered flights (3), all without getting anywhere near space. The effort has dragged on longer than the Apollo moon program that inspired Bransonís love of space.

I haven't read Branson's book, but what Doug says in the above paragraph speaks for itself, and whatever Branson says in his book isn't going to change that dismal record.
« Last Edit: 01/09/2018 02:02 AM by Kabloona »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #429 on: 01/09/2018 03:46 AM »
I think Doug is fair. Few journalists (if any) have as much knowledge about Scaled and VG as he does.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #430 on: 01/09/2018 08:13 AM »
Today we're expecting another article from Parabolicarc. The article will be called "A dangerous illusion is shattered in the skies over the Mojave."

Meanwhile on 4th of January we passed a 5-month gap of flights. The last gliding test was in august. If this lull continues, there will be half a year without flights.

This is in sharp contrast with what Virgin Galactic envisioned last fall. They said that until the end of 2017 Unity will be doing powered flights, and "powered tests are set to take place every three weeks".

Nothing like this happened and it's really curious what's going on behind the curtains. Are they still having trouble with the engine?

Offline LaunchedIn68

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #431 on: 01/09/2018 04:30 PM »
Guys?

This article just appeared on Parabolic Arc:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/08/richard-bransons-latest-memoir-lost-space/


There's a lot of harsh criticism there.

What do you think?

Typical.  More of the same from that site, one sided "reporting"...more akin to blogging I would say.  After the VSS Enterprise accident, he reported it was the engine as expected all along, that blew up.  I look at the available photos posted on his own site would prove otherwise, as was later revealed. 
"I want to build a spaceship, go to the moon, salvage all the junk that's up there, bring it back, sell it." - Harry Broderick

Online tleski

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #432 on: 01/09/2018 05:50 PM »
Today we're expecting another article from Parabolicarc. The article will be called "A dangerous illusion is shattered in the skies over the Mojave."

Meanwhile on 4th of January we passed a 5-month gap of flights. The last gliding test was in august. If this lull continues, there will be half a year without flights.

This is in sharp contrast with what Virgin Galactic envisioned last fall. They said that until the end of 2017 Unity will be doing powered flights, and "powered tests are set to take place every three weeks".

Nothing like this happened and it's really curious what's going on behind the curtains. Are they still having trouble with the engine?

Part 2:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/09/bransons-autobiography-part-ii-bad-day-koehn-lake/

Online Andy Bandy

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #433 on: 01/09/2018 06:21 PM »
Guys?

This article just appeared on Parabolic Arc:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/08/richard-bransons-latest-memoir-lost-space/


There's a lot of harsh criticism there.

What do you think?

The essence of Doug's criticism is this quote from his post:

Quote
More than 14 years after Taiís accidental discovery, Branson is still waiting for his ride to space along with about 650 Virgin Galactic ticket holders. The SpaceShipTwo program has consumed more than $600 million while producing more deaths (4) than successful powered flights (3), all without getting anywhere near space. The effort has dragged on longer than the Apollo moon program that inspired Bransonís love of space.

I haven't read Branson's book, but what Doug says in the above paragraph speaks for itself, and whatever Branson says in his book isn't going to change that dismal record.

I think that's the core of it. But, there's a lot more to it. He has written in the past about how rushed the flight test program had become at the time of the accident due to money and time pressures. About the pilot error safety waiver FAA issued under pressure to keep program on track. FAA realizes it screwed that up bigly. Sure all that will be written about in next two parts.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #434 on: 01/09/2018 11:15 PM »
Guys?

This article just appeared on Parabolic Arc:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/08/richard-bransons-latest-memoir-lost-space/


There's a lot of harsh criticism there.

What do you think?

Typical.  More of the same from that site, one sided "reporting"...more akin to blogging I would say.  After the VSS Enterprise accident, he reported it was the engine as expected all along, that blew up.  I look at the available photos posted on his own site would prove otherwise, as was later revealed.

Yes, that was a mistake, and to be fair, he then admitted he had jumped to a false conclusion and apologized. That doesn't mean all his other critiques of the SS2 program are invalid.

Offline meekGee

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #435 on: 01/10/2018 03:54 AM »
Guys?

This article just appeared on Parabolic Arc:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/08/richard-bransons-latest-memoir-lost-space/


There's a lot of harsh criticism there.

What do you think?

Typical.  More of the same from that site, one sided "reporting"...more akin to blogging I would say.  After the VSS Enterprise accident, he reported it was the engine as expected all along, that blew up.  I look at the available photos posted on his own site would prove otherwise, as was later revealed.

That's right.  VG actually had more issues in their craft and operations, beyond the engine issues that were correctly reported on on PA.

His initial guess as to what's happened was wrong, but that hardly makes his engine reporting faulty, or VG look any better.
« Last Edit: 01/10/2018 03:55 AM by meekGee »
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline woods170

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #436 on: 01/10/2018 07:21 AM »
Guys?

This article just appeared on Parabolic Arc:

http://parabolicarc.com/2018/01/08/richard-bransons-latest-memoir-lost-space/


There's a lot of harsh criticism there.

What do you think?

Typical.  More of the same from that site, one sided "reporting"...more akin to blogging I would say.  After the VSS Enterprise accident, he reported it was the engine as expected all along, that blew up.  I look at the available photos posted on his own site would prove otherwise, as was later revealed.

That's right.  VG actually had more issues in their craft and operations, beyond the engine issues that were correctly reported on on PA.

His initial guess as to what's happened was wrong, but that hardly makes his engine reporting faulty, or VG look any better.

Indeed. But, look at it this way. We are talking about Doug Messier here. A guy that has in fact been banned from here (NSF) for having an "agenda" AND relentlessly pursuing that agenda here on NSF.
His reporting on VG is generally correct, however his handicap is that he is incapable of keeping his own (twisted IMO) opinion out of his reporting blogging.

I notice this because I have the same handicap. So that's why I:
1. Don't blog
2. Have not answered to this call from Chris.

But I digress.
« Last Edit: 01/10/2018 07:22 AM by woods170 »

Offline Ric Capucho

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #437 on: 01/10/2018 06:51 PM »
Two wrongs donít make a right.

Ric


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #438 on: 01/10/2018 07:07 PM »
Two wrongs donít make a right.

Ric


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What two wrongs are you referring to?

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Space Ship Two - General Thread (3)
« Reply #439 on: 01/10/2018 10:03 PM »
I think Doug is just as obsessed with "safety" as Virgin Galactic is. If both were more concerned with actually flying people who are willing to open their wallets and take the risk, we'd have an actual industry by now.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

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