Author Topic: EM Drive Developments - related to space flight applications - Thread 3  (Read 1805278 times)

Offline Rodal

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And here is the stress for the small base
« Last Edit: 07/18/2015 06:28 PM by Rodal »

Offline Rodal

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Here I show the time fluctuation of the normal stress component at both bases, calculated at the center in both cases (notice that the stress at the center for the Big Base is not the location of the maximum for the Big Base, hence the big difference between the stress at the bases in this picture).

The reverse occurs at the periphery: the stress at the outer periphery is higher at the big base, in two crescent shapes.
« Last Edit: 07/16/2015 10:41 PM by Rodal »

Offline DrBagelBites

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Who had predicted that it was better to put the antenna at the small end ? (I think it was WarpTech, and I think he is right)

____________

Here I show the time fluctuation of the normal stress component at both bases, calculated at the center in both cases (notice that the stress at the center for the Big Base is not the location of the maximum for the Big Base, hence the big difference between the stress at the bases in this picture)

Rodal,

Although I may not understand 100% of what you do, I have to say that it is absolutely outstanding. I have been following as closely as I can, and seeing the progress made is a great thing to see.

Thanks for doing what you're doing!

-I

Offline rq3

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Its the missing link of GUT...giving away some working theories of mine, if thrust appears, I predict it will differ towards and away from a gravitational source. Interested? Hope so...its a hot potato subject you know.

I would have to agree, the gravitational dispersion would add or subtract with the direction of the cavity.
I am curious as to where you intend to get a "good supply" of gravity (or of its gradient or indeed of the curl of its potential  ;) ) when navigating in deep space?
Here is where it may fall apart...perhaps the effect is only noticeable in an intense gravity field. Lots of testing needs to be completed...onwards and upwards.

If EM drives requires a "good supply" of gravity, it won't work in deep space, but it would still be a very useful device for interplanetary travel. A spacecraft with EM drives in LEO could rapidly accelerate and build up enough velocity to travel to another planet before it is too far out of Earth's gravitational field.

So now we have to map Alderson points, and avoid them before we make the jump.

Offline ElizabethGreene

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We continue the program started with posts
... <snip away many beautiful images>

Looking at these images gives me an idea.   Intuitively, looking at the door and ventilation holes in my microwave oven, it appears you can reduce the surface area of a resonator wall by drilling holes in it with d << 1/4 lambda.  It looks like 50% can be removed and still be resonant.

I'd be willing to make a small wager that you could significantly change the thrust of a functioning emdrive by drilling holes in the areas of peak stress on the big end.

Offline RonM

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Its the missing link of GUT...giving away some working theories of mine, if thrust appears, I predict it will differ towards and away from a gravitational source. Interested? Hope so...its a hot potato subject you know.

I would have to agree, the gravitational dispersion would add or subtract with the direction of the cavity.
I am curious as to where you intend to get a "good supply" of gravity (or of its gradient or indeed of the curl of its potential  ;) ) when navigating in deep space?
Here is where it may fall apart...perhaps the effect is only noticeable in an intense gravity field. Lots of testing needs to be completed...onwards and upwards.

If EM drives requires a "good supply" of gravity, it won't work in deep space, but it would still be a very useful device for interplanetary travel. A spacecraft with EM drives in LEO could rapidly accelerate and build up enough velocity to travel to another planet before it is too far out of Earth's gravitational field.

So now we have to map Alderson points, and avoid them before we make the jump.

You're getting your SF mixed up. An Alderson point is where you want to be when you fire up the Alderson drive.

Offline deltaMass

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You're getting your SF mixed up. An Alderson point is where you want to be when you fire up the Alderson drive.
Far worse than Alderson jump shock is to be Frustumated.

Offline deltaMass

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NFF-04. Future Flight Propulsion Systems
Chair(s): Gregory Meholic (The Aerospace Corporation)
Co-Chair(s): Heidi Fearn (California State University, Fullerton)
2:30 PM - 5:30 PM; Lake Nona A
 
2:30 PM - 3:00 PM AIAA-2015-4078. Atmospheric Mining in the Outer Solar System: Aerial Vehicle Mission and Design Issues Bryan A. Palaszewski

3:00 PM - 3:30 PM AIAA-2015-4079. Space-to-Space Power Beaming Enabling High Performance Rapid Geocentric Orbit Transfer John Dankanich; Corinne Vassallo; Megan Tadge
 
3:30 PM - 4:00 PM AIAA-2015-4080. Design and First Measurements of a Superconducting Gravity-Impulse-Generator Istvan Lörincz; Martin Tajmar
 
4:00 PM - 4:30 PM AIAA-2015-4081. Replication and Experimental Characterization of the Wallace Dynamic Force Field Generator Martin Tajmar
 
4:30 PM - 5:00 PM AIAA-2015-4082. New Theoretical Results for the Mach Effect Thruster Heidi Fearn

5:00 PM - 5:30 PM AIAA-2015-4083. Direct Thrust Measurements of an EMDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects Martin Tajmar

Wow!

Experimental results from a Gravity-Impulse-Generator, a Wallace Dynamic Force Field Generator, and an EMDrive?  Is this an episode of Punk'D?  Are the attendees going to be surprised by a giant projection screen featuring Rick Astley?

****EDIT**** 

http://www.aiaa-propulsionenergy.org/techprogramoverview/

Will 2015 be the anus mirabilis for physics?

Offline aero

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Dr. Rodal,

Can you give us the sum of the integrals of stress on both bases?

Would you like to see some data with the antenna equidistant from the two bases, at the center that is?

aero
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Offline leomillert

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aero, I ran the simulation for 2 different heights: 5.1 (half of the original) and 2.55 (a quarter of the original).
I have all .h5 files ready, but I'm not sure what I should extract.
Could you please post all h5totxt commands I should run? I would also be able to create a simple shell script to automate this process, given you provide me with this information.
Thanks a lot.

Offline Rodal

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Dr. Rodal,

Can you give us the sum of the integrals of stress on both bases?

Would you like to see some data with the antenna equidistant from the two bases, at the center that is?

aero
I need some data:

1) Dimensions of your model:  (all in meters)  I think it is the RFMWGUY model at 2.45 GHz excitation frequency

Dbig=
Dsmall=
Length =

2) To perform the integration I need to know where are the boundary nodes (I have to first drop all the entries in the matrix that consists of nodes that are not in the base).
« Last Edit: 07/17/2015 12:23 AM by Rodal »

Offline leomillert

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I need some data:

1) Dimensions of your model:  (all in meters)  I think it is the RFMWGUY model at 2.45 GHz excitation frequency

Dbig=
Dsmall=
Length =

(set! bigdia 11.01)                             ; ID - inches
(set! smalldia 6.25)                           ; ID - inches
(set! high 10.2)                                   ; length - inches

Source: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37642.0;attach=1042821

So, using your notation and SI units:

Dbig= 0.279654 meters
Dsmall= 0.15875 meters
Length = 0.25908 meters

----------------------------------------------------------------

Note to aero: maybe it would be a good idea to define the .ctl model entirely in SI units, from the very start, instead of converting it all later. What do you think?
« Last Edit: 07/17/2015 12:30 AM by leomillert »

Offline Rodal

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5:00 PM - 5:30 PM AIAA-2015-4083. Direct Thrust Measurements of an EMDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects Martin Tajmar

Wow!

Will 2015 be the anus mirabilis for physics?

annus veritas for the EM Drive


More like the year in which Prof. Tajmar will show comprehensive testing for the EM Drive in vacuum, in various orientations, showing force/InputPower even lower than NASA's and orders of magnitude lower than what Shawyer and Yang have claimed.  All at a Q much lower than reported by NASA and orders of magnitude lower than claimed by Shawyer.

« Last Edit: 07/17/2015 01:23 AM by Rodal »

Offline deltaMass

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I really hate explaining jokes   8)
« Last Edit: 07/17/2015 01:20 AM by deltaMass »

Offline A_M_Swallow

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{snip}
You will have to convince people that there are no EM interaction between the currents flowing in the wirings of your test rig and the surrounding medium, or that interaction averages out to zero on each turn.

The rotary test rig is portable. Made from compressed wood fibre. 2 low stiction bearing and a magnetic thrust bearing in the lower end of the rotary shaft. 8 fully visible components. 4 x 12v 6AH SLA batteries, USB Rf gen, Rf amp, Raspberry Pi 2B based real time controller and monitoring system and the EMDrive. Easy to move and set up wherever. No hidden wires, air currents, fishing line, gyro torquers.

The people seeing the demo select the indoor site.

I then put together the rotary test rig, which they can fully inspect, even xray if they wish.

Will then install all the EMDrive system components on the rotary test table and do a few checks to be sure it is all working as expected.

Will then step away and invite further inspection.

When that is completed, will wirelessly switch on the system and explain how it auto configures itself, finds the best frequency to use and how it starts out at low power (continually testing for the best frequency) and builds up the power to obtain a set acceleration rate, continues acceleration until a set RPM is achieved and then switches off for the next test run, all data recorded. This way I can let it auto search, accelerate, hit target RPM, switch off and repeat the process, while recording heaps of data.

It is based on Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) engineering

Any way of keeping the frequency wrong to show that it is the EM Drive that causes the movement?
This eliminates magnetic and heat effects.

Offline aero

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@leomillert

For your information, the conversion from inches to meters is: 1 inch = 0.0254 meter.

The NSF-1701 cavity is specified in units of inches. That's why I code the input in inches and let the computer convert.
The Yang-Shell model is specified in units of meters, so I input the specified value in meters, no conversion needed.

aero
Retired, working interesting problems

Offline leomillert

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@leomillert

For your information, the conversion from inches to meters is: 1 inch = 0.0254 meter.

I know that, I converted it on my post.

The NSF-1701 cavity is specified in units of inches.
That's fine, I just find it weird to use non-SI units in science. No big deal.

---------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, could you please provide all h5totxt commands needed to get the relevant csv files out of the h5 files?
I performed some sensitivity analysis that I believe would be of interest.
Thank you.

Offline aero

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aero, I ran the simulation for 2 different heights: 5.1 (half of the original) and 2.55 (a quarter of the original).
I have all .h5 files ready, but I'm not sure what I should extract.
Could you please post all h5totxt commands I should run? I would also be able to create a simple shell script to automate this process, given you provide me with this information.
Thanks a lot.

Did you check the cavity resonance for these dimensions? Set the "continuous" switch = 0, and the Gaussian switch = 1, then run the model. You will get from one to six lines of output on the terminal, nothing in the output directory.  If Harminv finds nothing, you will get the one header line only.  Harminv is set to detect up to 5 resonance frequencies. 

(after-sources (harminv Ez (vector3 0.05 0.05 0.05) fmeep BW 5)) )

If you do get resonance data, please tell us.
Retired, working interesting problems

Offline leomillert

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aero, I ran the simulation for 2 different heights: 5.1 (half of the original) and 2.55 (a quarter of the original).
I have all .h5 files ready, but I'm not sure what I should extract.
Could you please post all h5totxt commands I should run? I would also be able to create a simple shell script to automate this process, given you provide me with this information.
Thanks a lot.

Did you check the cavity resonance for these dimensions? Set the "continuous" switch = 0, and the Gaussian switch = 1, then run the model. You will get from one to six lines of output on the terminal, nothing in the output directory.  If Harminv finds nothing, you will get the one header line only.  Harminv is set to detect up to 5 resonance frequencies. 

(after-sources (harminv Ez (vector3 0.05 0.05 0.05) fmeep BW 5)) )

If you do get resonance data, please tell us.

Does this look okay? Continuous was set to 1, so I changed to 0. Gaussian was already set to 1, so I kept it intact.
    (define-param Continuous 0)   ;  ***** Continuous******* to see images.
      (define-param Gaussian 1)   ;  ***** Gaussian noise ****** to check resonance and Q


Model is running, will report once it finishes.
« Last Edit: 07/17/2015 01:55 AM by leomillert »

Offline TheTraveller

{snip}
You will have to convince people that there are no EM interaction between the currents flowing in the wirings of your test rig and the surrounding medium, or that interaction averages out to zero on each turn.

The rotary test rig is portable. Made from compressed wood fibre. 2 low stiction bearing and a magnetic thrust bearing in the lower end of the rotary shaft. 8 fully visible components. 4 x 12v 6AH SLA batteries, USB Rf gen, Rf amp, Raspberry Pi 2B based real time controller and monitoring system and the EMDrive. Easy to move and set up wherever. No hidden wires, air currents, fishing line, gyro torquers.

The people seeing the demo select the indoor site.

I then put together the rotary test rig, which they can fully inspect, even xray if they wish.

Will then install all the EMDrive system components on the rotary test table and do a few checks to be sure it is all working as expected.

Will then step away and invite further inspection.

When that is completed, will wirelessly switch on the system and explain how it auto configures itself, finds the best frequency to use and how it starts out at low power (continually testing for the best frequency) and builds up the power to obtain a set acceleration rate, continues acceleration until a set RPM is achieved and then switches off for the next test run, all data recorded. This way I can let it auto search, accelerate, hit target RPM, switch off and repeat the process, while recording heaps of data.

It is based on Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) engineering

Any way of keeping the frequency wrong to show that it is the EM Drive that causes the movement?
This eliminates magnetic and heat effects.

Good idea. Thanks. That is simple to do.
"As for me, I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas.”
Herman Melville, Moby Dick

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