Author Topic: EM Drive Developments - related to space flight applications - Thread 3  (Read 1802298 times)

Offline Rodal

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Dr. Rodal and all.
The csv files are now up.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfmkxNm1Ha1YxR1NZU2ZjUUpBUVVGV0M4QUVxaGYySEVFam5jVzdRYy0tSWs&usp=sharing

Thanks to zxcvb who is brand new to NSF, the BASH command files ran like a charm. All 18 directions are included.

Now I need to edit them (a copy) to execute h5topng. That will take awhile but the images that are already up should be indicative. The difference is the 2.5 times increased resolution so the noise outside the cavity will be much lower for these cases.

Enjoy - and I expect questions as usual.

I take it that zxcvb sent you a Personal Message with the BASH command files ? 

Because there is no posted message here from zxcvb.

Anyway, a warm welcome to our thread, zxcvb and thank you so much for your help :)

Offline SeeShells

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Yes, I plan to generate and upload the full set of 18 views and csv data files.

here it is !!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh. My. God.
Exactly my response. That's an Alcubierre metric.  Sh!t just got real.
OK, OK, I'll get less excited :)
The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
Shell

Offline aero

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Dr. Rodal and all.
The csv files are now up.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfmkxNm1Ha1YxR1NZU2ZjUUpBUVVGV0M4QUVxaGYySEVFam5jVzdRYy0tSWs&usp=sharing

Thanks to zxcvb who is brand new to NSF, the BASH command files ran like a charm. All 18 directions are included.

Now I need to edit them (a copy) to execute h5topng. That will take awhile but the images that are already up should be indicative. The difference is the 2.5 times increased resolution so the noise outside the cavity will be much lower for these cases.

Enjoy - and I expect questions as usual.

I take it that zxcvb sent you a Personal Message with the BASH command files ? 

Because there is no posted message here from zxcvb.

Anyway, a warm welcome to our thread, zxcvb and thank you so much for your help :)

Yes, a very big help from zxcvb, Thank you again, and welcome!
Retired, working interesting problems

Offline VAXHeadroom

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Yes, I plan to generate and upload the full set of 18 views and csv data files.

here it is !!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh. My. God.
Exactly my response. That's an Alcubierre metric.  Sh!t just got real.
OK, OK, I'll get less excited :)
The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
Shell
Yeah, but I'm done breathing into a paper bag for the moment. ;)

I'll see what I can do with graphics from the CSV files tonight and over my 4 day weekend.

Emory Stagmer
  Executive Producer, Public Speaker UnTied Music - www.untiedmusic.com

Offline RAID_RONIN

Hi All,  long time lurker first time poster. Reddit all a buzz and twitter just now about NASA testing something right now on X-37...
Twitter tweet that NASA successfully tested out a Hall Thruster. Haven't had time to read article yet on www.rocket.com.

This could get very interesting.

Things seem to be coming to head on this technology.
I love listening in on all your correspondence here regarding theory, speculation and you amazing DIY people.
I am living vicariously through you guys.

Keep up the awesome work!

RAID_RONIN
« Last Edit: 07/01/2015 09:09 PM by RAID_RONIN »

Offline DrBagelBites

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Yes, I plan to generate and upload the full set of 18 views and csv data files.

here it is !!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely stunning! Amazing work!

Offline Stormbringer

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Hi All,  long time lurker first time poster. Reddit all a buzz and twitter just now about NASA testing something right now on X-37...
Twitter tweet that NASA successfully tested out a Hall Thruster. Haven't had time to read article yet on www.rocket.com.

This could get very interesting.

Things seem to be coming to head on this technology.
I love listening in on all your correspondence here regarding theory, speculation and you amazing DIY people.
I am living vicariously through you guys.

Keep up the awesome work!

RAID_RONIN
Hall thrusters are advanced ion/plasma engines. They are exciting; but they are unrelated to EM drives of this sort. Hall thrusters and related drives like ELF tube ion drives are indeed advanced propulsion and the latest generation of these devices offer better performance than the VASIMR drive. But they still work on the known principles of rocketry.
When antigravity is outlawed only outlaws will have antigravity.

Offline Star One

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Hi All,  long time lurker first time poster. Reddit all a buzz and twitter just now about NASA testing something right now on X-37...
Twitter tweet that NASA successfully tested out a Hall Thruster. Haven't had time to read article yet on www.rocket.com.

This could get very interesting.

Things seem to be coming to head on this technology.
I love listening in on all your correspondence here regarding theory, speculation and you amazing DIY people.
I am living vicariously through you guys.

Keep up the awesome work!

RAID_RONIN
Hall thrusters are advanced ion/plasma engines. They are exciting; but they are unrelated to EM drives of this sort. Hall thrusters and related drives like ELF tube ion drives are indeed advanced propulsion and the latest generation of these devices offer better performance than the VASIMR drive. But they still work on the known principles of rocketry.

Rumoured that the other advanced propulsion device being tested on it is an ELF thruster?

Offline Rodal

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Dr. Rodal and all.
The csv files are now up.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfmkxNm1Ha1YxR1NZU2ZjUUpBUVVGV0M4QUVxaGYySEVFam5jVzdRYy0tSWs&usp=sharing

Thanks to zxcvb who is brand new to NSF, the BASH command files ran like a charm. All 18 directions are included.

Now I need to edit them (a copy) to execute h5topng. That will take awhile but the images that are already up should be indicative. The difference is the 2.5 times increased resolution so the noise outside the cavity will be much lower for these cases.

Enjoy - and I expect questions as usual.

Here you have a couple of views for the Copper modeling

Look at the antenna sticking out like a high tower :)

x axis = Longitudinal, perpendicular to the flat bases of the truncated cone
y and z axes = perpendicular to the x axis

Ex = Electric field along longitudinal axis

Ey= Electric field perpendicular to longitudinal axis

H = magnetic field
« Last Edit: 07/01/2015 11:01 PM by Rodal »

Offline zen-in

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...

Sorry to be a kill joy, but knowing the way misinformation gets spread across the internet and not wanting to see anymore popsci articles on how "Nasa made a warp drive", I felt like I had to say something. 

This thread is fringe enough without having to needlessly bring warp ships into the fray ;)

I would agree with those sentiments.   In thread 2 there was a discussion on the interferometer experiment.   It was my opinion then and it still is that the images acquired were just ordinary laser fringes.   The images had been processed with 2-D to 3-D rendering software to make them look more dramatic and perhaps spooky to some.   

Offline Rodal

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Absolutely, it is a conspiracy to render images with 3D software and movie-making to make them look like spooky curvy scary looking things and keep us awake at night  :)

Offline Silvercrys3467

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Congratulations to Stephen: this is a very well done video.
After a quadrillion of dependency downloads and re-compiles, I am close to having the latest Meep source building completely on Linux... In fact it does build successfully already but is not able to locate the .h5 library, for unknown reasons.

Sounds like progress at least.

I made the bonehead move of resizing a 1TB partition on my Ubuntu system.... it's still running after 24+ hours. It's going to be a while before I can work on anything, but I'm planning on compiling MEEP on my system either way so I can also make some runs.

Offline SeeShells

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Had a Redditor ask me if he could help and 3D print out a Helical Antenna form for me. I thought that was very nice and here it is. This will be much easier than hand forming a 2.45 Ghz and more accurate. 

Shell

Offline SeeShells

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Dr. Rodal and all.
The csv files are now up.


Here you have a couple of views for the Copper modeling

Look at the antenna sticking out like a high tower :)

x axis = Longitudinal, perpendicular to the flat bases of the truncated cone
y and z axes = perpendicular to the x axis

Ex = Electric field along longitudinal axis

Ey= Electric field perpendicular to longitudinal axis

H = magnetic field
Absolutely beautiful work. This is perfect, the visual helps see quite clearly the wave actions.

Shell

Online WarpTech

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Dr. Rodal and all.
The csv files are now up.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfmkxNm1Ha1YxR1NZU2ZjUUpBUVVGV0M4QUVxaGYySEVFam5jVzdRYy0tSWs&usp=sharing

Thanks to zxcvb who is brand new to NSF, the BASH command files ran like a charm. All 18 directions are included.

Now I need to edit them (a copy) to execute h5topng. That will take awhile but the images that are already up should be indicative. The difference is the 2.5 times increased resolution so the noise outside the cavity will be much lower for these cases.

Enjoy - and I expect questions as usual.

I take it that zxcvb sent you a Personal Message with the BASH command files ? 

Because there is no posted message here from zxcvb.

Anyway, a warm welcome to our thread, zxcvb and thank you so much for your help :)

Yes, a very big help from zxcvb, Thank you again, and welcome!

Aero, what is the output power of the antenna in the simulation? The numbers are much larger than they were, but they are still much, much lower than I would expect under a resonant condition.
Todd

Offline Rodal

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Dr. Rodal and all.
The csv files are now up.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfmkxNm1Ha1YxR1NZU2ZjUUpBUVVGV0M4QUVxaGYySEVFam5jVzdRYy0tSWs&usp=sharing

Thanks to zxcvb who is brand new to NSF, the BASH command files ran like a charm. All 18 directions are included.

Now I need to edit them (a copy) to execute h5topng. That will take awhile but the images that are already up should be indicative. The difference is the 2.5 times increased resolution so the noise outside the cavity will be much lower for these cases.

Enjoy - and I expect questions as usual.

I take it that zxcvb sent you a Personal Message with the BASH command files ? 

Because there is no posted message here from zxcvb.

Anyway, a warm welcome to our thread, zxcvb and thank you so much for your help :)

Yes, a very big help from zxcvb, Thank you again, and welcome!

Aero, what is the output power of the antenna in the simulation? The numbers are much larger than they were, but they are still much, much lower than I would expect under a resonant condition.
Todd

Todd, are you taking into account that these fields are in Meep dimensionless units ( http://ab-initio.mit.edu/wiki/index.php/Meep_Introduction#Units_in_Meep )? (not normal SI dimensional units)

Also, the value of the field at the antenna is higher than shown, I had to clip the values of the antenna so that the electric fields can be seen.
« Last Edit: 07/02/2015 12:33 AM by Rodal »

Offline aero

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The higher density views are uploaded.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfkVzeXVub2NpTm5fanZTTTdrLXNiT3VHaV9FYnB6TVpDUmJsWjRQbEUwdE0&usp=sharing

These Meep runs were made at resolution = 250 which is 2.5 times higher than previously uploaded views. These are the 14 final time slices of a 32 cycle run. 14 images for each view, separated by 0.1 cycle of the drive frequency 2.45 GHz. The Gaussian noise bandwidth of 2.45 GHz * .025 was used which seems reasonable for a magnetron. The 58 mm dipole antenna was located parallel to and 1/4 wavelength from the small end plate, excited with the Ez field component.

Included are two models of the 10.2 inch NSF-1701 cavity, one using copper and the other using Perfect metal.

I expect questions.
Retired, working interesting problems

Offline aero

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Todd, Its very difficult to dig out the power levels from a Meep run. It is possible to change the signal amplitude but finding out the actual power level is .... Well, the documentation suggests making two runs, and comparing them for relative power. Which doesn't answer the question.
Retired, working interesting problems

Offline VAXHeadroom

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Had a Redditor ask me if he could help and 3D print out a Helical Antenna form for me. I thought that was very nice and here it is. This will be much easier than hand forming a 2.45 Ghz and more accurate. 

Shell
Nice! I have a 3D printer that can do 11" dia and 14.75" tall.  Let me know anything you need.
Emory Stagmer
  Executive Producer, Public Speaker UnTied Music - www.untiedmusic.com

Online WarpTech

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...
Yes, a very big help from zxcvb, Thank you again, and welcome!

Aero, what is the output power of the antenna in the simulation? The numbers are much larger than they were, but they are still much, much lower than I would expect under a resonant condition.
Todd

Todd, are you taking into account that these fields are in Meep dimensionless units ( http://ab-initio.mit.edu/wiki/index.php/Meep_Introduction#Units_in_Meep )? (not normal SI dimensional units)

Also, the value of the field at the antenna is higher than shown, I had to clip the values of the antenna so that the electric fields can be seen.

Sorry, I must've missed that detail. How do I scale it to V/m and A/m then? I'm looking for some peak and average values so I can estimate the copper losses.
Todd

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