Author Topic: LIVE: Wallops Island Minotaur - TacSat 2 - Dec 16  (Read 38686 times)

Offline edkyle99

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RE: Wallops Island launch is test of the quick, small
« Reply #40 on: 12/12/2006 03:11 AM »
Quote
Jim - 11/12/2006  2:54 PM

Quote
edkyle99 - 11/12/2006  10:20 AM

This Minotaur might not make it off the pad this year now, according to this report.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061211/NEWS/61211002/-1/NEWS01

I wonder why this TacSat problem wasn't vetted until the last minute?  Surely this was an issue that was known by someone.

 - Ed Kyle

Until spacecraft are no longer in the realm of rocket science, tactical ops is a pipedream.  "Quick callup" is not compatable with the testing required of standard spacecraft.

As I understand it, the "Responsive Space' concept goal is to have pretested, "ready to go" spacecraft "on the shelf" so that they could be quickly called up and flown.  This seems plausible to me, given that the military has for decades now maintained hundreds to thousands of instantly "ready to go" intercontinental ballistic missiles topped with warheads mounted on buses that have many of the functions of a satellite bus.  But obviously the status-quo satellite launch campaign methods won't cut it.  "On the shelf" in the traditional meaning of "shelf" probably won't work either.  ICBMs, for example, don't just sit in their silos.  They are continuously maintained and tested.  "Ready to go" satellites would probably have to be maintained in a similar manner.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline edkyle99

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RE: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #41 on: 12/12/2006 03:27 PM »
http://www.wff.nasa.gov/tacsat2

"LAUNCH UPDATE: 10:00 a.m. 12/12/06:
The TacSat-2/Minotaur 1 launch set for Monday, Dec. 11, has been delayed with Friday, Dec. 15 as the earliest possible launch date. Analysis and testing continue on the TacSat-2 flight software and the ground-based simulator at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M. The launch window now extends to Dec. 22. Launch time remains 7 to 10 a.m. each day. As information becomes available, updates will be provided on this web site and on the launch status line at 757-824-2050."

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Radioheaded

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RE: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #42 on: 12/13/2006 09:25 PM »
Any news on this?  Info line stills say NET Friday, (I'm still hoping for NET Saturday  ;)  )  Chris, any info from your sources? (OT but I just want to say to the sources that there is no way to thank them enough for all the info  :)   :)   :)  )
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Offline rocketman007

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #43 on: 12/13/2006 10:11 PM »
well from my insider information here is what i know... the scrub was due to 2 software problems found at the 11th hour as the launch team continued to test scenerios on the TacSat-2 test bed at AFRL.  horray for whoever had the balls to scrub launch.. always better to fix those prior to launch than once on orbit.  the ADCS problem which would have had the SAs pointed 45 degress off sun has now been solved (2 lines of code), tested, and loaded onto the SC today in Wallops.  the other problem they have made good progress with the last few days and are converging on a solution.  there are still 2 scenerios... (1) the problem is found to be a ground configuration only and not a possible on orbit scenerio (this is what they are looking like it is).  if this is the case, they are looking for a 12/16 launch.  (2) the problem is a SC configuration and needs a flight software update which will require a destack from the LV and would slip launch until January sometime.  a decision will most likely be made by tomorrow i would imagine.

also, i agree with SpacemanSpiff... MSI looks like they have a great new solar array solution for future missions and TacSat-2 has an experimental solar array on it that will provide actual power to the bus, so it should be interesting to keep an eye on.  lighter, smaller, cheaper is a nice thing in this industry along with the ever important flight heritage.

on the other hand, edkyle... the imager orientation did change but that was early on in the program.. not an impact.  TacSat-2 was built rapidly but not quickly... care was taken and it will work... there was some GFE used on the program to reduce cost but they were not dusty old crap just sitting around... it was flight worthy and the Air Force deemed was a good alternative to save money and cost.  As a tax payer, we should appreciate that for sure.

an interesting program and set of experiments to keep an eye on for sure.  if there are more questions, i will do my best to get answers for you all.

Offline Radioheaded

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #44 on: 12/13/2006 10:50 PM »
Thanks Rocketman.... I hope your right about 12/16.  And although i was extraordinarily preturbed about the 12/11 (only because I had driven 2 1/2 hrs, only to turn around and head back to Richmond  :(  ) But I too am glad that someone caught this pre launch.... I think the entire concept  of tacsat is a good idea.  Seems to me (albeit I know absolutely nothing about anything  ;)  ) that It was actually a well thought out idea.  Relatively low cost, mininal amount of man hours, and yet give our boys on the ground over there a real time (or close to it) look @ hostile targets.  I'm pulling for this one on many levels  :)
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Offline rocketman007

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #45 on: 12/13/2006 10:58 PM »
no worries radioman... just got latest info that 12/16 is looking greener, but they are not ready to make that call quite yet.  a few more test configurations to check and validate.  yes, i agree too, the tacsat programs are a very good resource for real time data to the troops and certainly the concept of responsive space is a good one... i do however think that there are many hurdles to get a spacecraft up and in theatre in 7 days.  i belive that tacsat-2 was about 15-18 months, which is still incredibly fast.

Offline Jim

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #46 on: 12/13/2006 11:07 PM »
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rocketman007 - 13/12/2006  6:41 PM
  yes, i agree too, the tacsat programs are a very good resource for real time data to the troops and certainly the concept of responsive space is a good one...t.

not really, orbital mechanics prevent reconsats from being "tactical" or "realtime".  They can only make a few passes each day and not at the times the troops need it


Offline rocketman007

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #47 on: 12/13/2006 11:10 PM »
Jim.. that is certainly one view.  I guess that is what UAVs are for huh.  LEO birds get about 15 passes a day is all, so they have to be prepared to wait 90 minutes for data.  and certainly it all depends on ground station locations.  however, tacsat-2 does have the capability to image and then downlink that image all in the same 10-15 minute contact.  therefore, it is possible to get semi real time data to the people who need it.

Offline Jim

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #48 on: 12/13/2006 11:23 PM »
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rocketman007 - 13/12/2006  6:53 PM

Jim.. that is certainly one view.  I guess that is what UAVs are for huh.  LEO birds get about 15 passes a day is all, so they have to be prepared to wait 90 minutes for data.  and certainly it all depends on ground station locations.  however, tacsat-2 does have the capability to image and then downlink that image all in the same 10-15 minute contact.  therefore, it is possible to get semi real time data to the people who need it.

15 passes?  Only in a low inclination orbit which is useless since most of the targets are at higher latitudes.  Polar orbits are 2 a day.

Tactical reconsat is a farce, physically impossible

Getting data to the troops can be solved.  A system like DMSP uses might work.  Getting a satellite over the objective at the time the troops want it is a different thing.




Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #49 on: 12/13/2006 11:56 PM »
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Jim - 13/12/2006  6:06 PM

Tactical reconsat is a farce, physically impossible


Not if you can make them cheap enough and launch enough of them...

If one passed overhead every 15 minutes, you would need 48 birds...
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Offline Jim

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #50 on: 12/14/2006 12:02 AM »
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kevin-rf - 13/12/2006  7:39 PM

Quote
Jim - 13/12/2006  6:06 PM

Tactical reconsat is a farce, physically impossible


Not if you can make them cheap enough and launch enough of them...

If one passed overhead every 15 minutes, you would need 48 birds...

You would need 100's more.  

Which means it isn't a "tactical" satellite.  It would be a strategic system with tactical use

Should have said a responsively launched Tactical  reconsat is a farce

Good article:  The Myth of the Tactical Satellite

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj06/sum06/tomme.html

Offline edkyle99

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RE: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #51 on: 12/14/2006 02:49 AM »
http://www.wff.nasa.gov/tacsat2

"LAUNCH UPDATE: 3:55 p.m. 12/13/06:
The Minotaur 1 launch set for Monday, Dec. 11 from the NASA Wallops Flight Facility, has been delayed with Saturday, Dec. 16, as the earliest possible launch date. Analysis and testing continue on the TacSat-2 satellite systems by researchers with the Air Force Research Lab at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M. The launch window now extends to Dec. 22. The daily launch window is 7 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. As information becomes available, updates will be provided on this web site and on the Wallops launch status line at 757-824-2050."

Thursday sounds like decision day - either Dec 16 or punt to January for TacSat-2.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline yinzer

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #52 on: 12/14/2006 04:29 AM »
Responsively launched tactical reconsats do seem rather unlikely.  However, I'll just point out that Iridium put something like 100 satellites in orbit for something like 25% of the money that was been spent on the FIA before the entire program was taken away from Boeing and given to Lockheed to start over on.  It's not an inherently silly notion.
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Offline rocketman007

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #53 on: 12/14/2006 05:34 AM »
Jim.. tacsat-2 is getting 15 orbits a day (93 minutes per) with approximately 10-13 contacts per day depending on the ground station availability.  i'd have to check on the inclination exactly... but i believe it is 40 degrees.

Offline Jim

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #54 on: 12/14/2006 11:09 AM »
It is not going to pass over the same point on earth 15 times a day.  That is basic orbital mechanics.  As for ground stationS, it will need to have more than a few to get the 10-13 contacts a day.

Here is a orbital trace for 51.6 degrees at 180 nmi .  The sites in the mid latitudes only get 2 over passes a day

Offline Jim

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Re: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #55 on: 12/14/2006 11:10 AM »
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yinzer - 14/12/2006  12:12 AM

Responsively launched tactical reconsats do seem rather unlikely.  However, I'll just point out that Iridium put something like 100 satellites in orbit for something like 25% of the money that was been spent on the FIA before the entire program was taken away from Boeing and given to Lockheed to start over on.  It's not an inherently silly notion.

FIA was not that type of constellation

Offline Radioheaded

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RE: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #56 on: 12/15/2006 03:18 PM »
LAUNCH UPDATE: 10:20 p.m. 12/14/06:
The Air Force TacSat-2/Minotaur 1 launch has been rescheduled for Saturday, Dec. 16. The launch window is 7 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. The TacSat-2 micro satellite?s software issues have been resolved and it has been cleared for launch.

Invited Guests: The badging center (at the NASA Visitor Center) will be open on Friday, December 15, from noon to 4 p.m., and from 3-5 a.m. on Saturday, December 16. Guests need to report to the NASA Project Support Building no later than 5:30 a.m. on Saturday. Do not forget your guest badge.

Media: The L-1 press conference will be held at the NASA Wallops Flight Facility Visitor Center at noon, Friday, December 15. Media badging center (also at the Visitor Center) will be open from noon-4 p.m. on Friday, December 15, and from 3-5 a.m. on Saturday, December 16. Media must be at the Visitor Center no later than 5 a.m. on Saturday, December 16, to meet the bus. Do not forget your media badge.


 :)   :)   :)  I'll try to get some pics to post, although I won't make any promises, because my photography skills are mediocre at best.
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Offline edkyle99

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RE: Another Wallops Island Minotaur
« Reply #57 on: 12/16/2006 12:46 AM »
A feed, showing the launch pad, is already flowing on the webcast.

http://www.wff.nasa.gov/webcast/

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: LIVE: Wallops Island Minotaur - TacSat 2 - Dec 16
« Reply #58 on: 12/16/2006 10:34 AM »
Moved for live coverage.

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: LIVE: Wallops Island Minotaur - TacSat 2 - Dec 16
« Reply #59 on: 12/16/2006 10:35 AM »
T-45 mins.

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