Author Topic: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)  (Read 441246 times)

Offline docmordrid

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1640 on: 07/11/2016 06:42 PM »
And their nearest counterpart is neither Boeing or even ULA, it's LM.
... Dr. Dissel joins Reaction Engines Inc. from Lockheed Martin Space Systems

Interesting since Lockmart is one of the suitors rumored to be interested in acquiring BAE.
DM

Offline Star One

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1641 on: 07/11/2016 07:08 PM »
And their nearest counterpart is neither Boeing or even ULA, it's LM.
... Dr. Dissel joins Reaction Engines Inc. from Lockheed Martin Space Systems

Interesting since Lockmart is one of the suitors rumored to be interested in acquiring BAE.

I hope not. Reckon Brexit will put off any such suitors anyway.

Offline knowles2

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1642 on: 07/11/2016 10:02 PM »
According to the Financial times Reaction Engine now has funding for a sabre demonstration engine,

https://next.ft.com/content/f879fe82-4782-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab

I presume that BAE must be offering substantial in kind and probably additional cash support on top of the 60 million coming from ESA and UKSA for the construction of this demonstration than the currently stated 20 million.

As the original budget for the ground engine demonstrator was 200 to 300 million.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2016 10:07 PM by knowles2 »

Offline Star One

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1643 on: 07/11/2016 10:05 PM »
According to the Financial times it has funding,

https://next.ft.com/content/f879fe82-4782-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab
Nothing but pay wall on that link.

Offline knowles2

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1644 on: 07/11/2016 10:09 PM »
According to the Financial times it has funding,

https://next.ft.com/content/f879fe82-4782-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab
Nothing but pay wall on that link.

 :(  it working for me, not a subscriber, usually you get 5 article free month from the site. Not sure you are allowed to copy the whole article, but here it is anyway, This what the article state,
Quote
Reaction Engines  Follow
Reaction Engines secures funding for space engine
UK start-up to produce demonstrator of its Sabre technology that could transform travel beyond earth


3 HOURS AGO by: Peggy Hollinger in Farnborough

Britain has given the go-ahead to crucial development funding for a revolutionary UK designed engine that could send aircraft into outer space and back at five times the speed of sound.

Reaction Engines, founded by British engineer Alan Bond, has signed a €10m development contract with the European Space Agency, which unlocks £50m from the UK Space Agency.

The funding will allow Reaction, a UK start-up now 20 per cent owned by British defence company BAE Systems, to build a ground-based demonstrator of its Sabre engine.


This is supposed to power Skylon, a space aircraft also designed by Reaction.

Originally developed by former Rolls-Royce engineer Mr Bond and two business partners more than 30 years ago, the Sabre technology has passed technical assessments by the US air force and the European Space Agency.

The Sabre design for a reusable hybrid rocket cum jet engine promises to transform the economics of space.

Reaction said the agreements with the European Space Agency and the UK Space Agency, as well as the industrial partnership with BAE Systems, would enable it to “deliver the world’s first Sabre ground demonstrator engine by the end of the decade”.

Mark Thomas, Reaction’s chief executive, said: “We’ve had valuable support from [the European Space Agency] and [the UK Space Agency] to date, and today’s agreement is a further vote of confidence not only in the revolutionary potential of this technology, but our ability to deliver on it.

“We are now entering an exciting phase where we can accelerate the pace of development to get [Sabre] up and running.”
.




« Last Edit: 07/12/2016 06:55 AM by knowles2 »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1645 on: 07/11/2016 11:51 PM »
I'd be very careful of wholesale posting of a copyright item.  :(

However for once the REL PR "department" has actually made an announcement.

http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news_11jul2016.html

the establishment of a US division appears to be SOP in the defense business because, bluntly the DoD simply don't feel comfortable with dealing with foreign companies unless they have some sort of firewalled system so US secrets can't be transferred abroad.

Of course in this case the actual dangers is transfer of UK held (commercial) secrets to the US.  :(

There are a couple of interesting things about Dr Dissel.

Firstly LM (unlike BAE) have not invested in REL. Executives from BAE can expect to have retained some of their pension and other benefits from BAE. In principal he would have none. That means he's either looking at REL matching them, which I think is a pretty serious amount of cash, or he's expecting some sort of stock option.

But that only makes sense if REL is going public. ??

His previous title at LM "System Architect for Responsive Space" is also interesting. "Responsive Space" has been the US military phrase for fast call up and deployment of military space assets and what that needs. This is not the "SR72." It's LEO, short lifetime payloads to expand capacity of "something" in a particular theater of operations. It meant looking at things like standard satellite payloads, either as 1 sensor per satellite or some kind of "tinker toy" plug-n-play assembly with streamlining things like coupled loads analysis.

Which suggest Dr Dissel may have a vehicle design that could be flexed to carry SABRE, or something similar.

[EDIT This article gives a sense of the sort of things the US military means by "responsive space."
http://spacenews.com/ors-director-were-not-here-to-build-neat-toys/

obviously if one moves away from  "artillery range" style launch operations things can run much more smoothly, provided a suitable vehicle exists. ]
]
« Last Edit: 07/12/2016 12:16 AM by john smith 19 »
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Offline oddbodd

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1646 on: 07/12/2016 01:50 AM »
Interesting since Lockmart is one of the suitors rumored to be interested in acquiring BAE.

I hope not. Reckon Brexit will put off any such suitors anyway.

This is the ideal time for predatory antics. The GBP is some 13% down against the USD. It depends on the overall LM strategy, but the simplistic cost of acquisition/merger just dropped substantially.

Offline oddbodd

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1647 on: 07/12/2016 01:56 AM »
I'd be very careful of wholesale posting of a copyright item.  :(

Quote
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2016. All rights reserved. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.

He even copied the bit that told not to copy the article. So at least he was thorough  :o

Offline knowles2

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1648 on: 07/12/2016 07:16 AM »
I'd be very careful of wholesale posting of a copyright item.  :(

However for once the REL PR "department" has actually made an announcement.

http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news_11jul2016.html

That doesn't mention the bit about the funds from UK Space Agency finally being released to Reaction engines and additional funding from ESA and confirmation that construction of a Sabre engine ground demonstrator is to begin. Which is something we been speculating on since we found out an announcement of  BAE have release that video and we also been speculating about what exactly Phase 3B programme.

It was never financial problems that prevents someone like Lockheed Martin buying up BAE, it political opposition that will be enormous for any deal that involves the UK selling it one and only remaining large defence firm. The only way would be for the whole firm to base in the UK with UK government maintain a golden share, that I presume would be completely unacceptable for the US government and the Pentagon.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1649 on: 07/12/2016 09:02 AM »
That doesn't mention the bit about the funds from UK Space Agency finally being released to Reaction engines and additional funding from ESA and confirmation that construction of a Sabre engine ground demonstrator is to begin. Which is something we been speculating on since we found out an announcement of  BAE have release that video and we also been speculating about what exactly Phase 3B programme.
An interesting question is wheather this is finally the bulk of the £60m George Osborne promised REL in 2013 or if it's in addition to that funding. If it's the latter that's a substantial boost to their development funding.
Quote
It was never financial problems that prevents someone like Lockheed Martin buying up BAE, it political opposition that will be enormous for any deal that involves the UK selling it one and only remaining large defence firm.
It's not the only large defense company in the UK but I think it's the last remaining prime, being able to handle the epic levels of MoD paperwork and years of selection needed to win a weapon system contract.

Note it is the last remaining prime because of the MoD desire to create a "national champion." This same line of thinking is why there are only 3 major defense conglomerates left in the US.  The theory was all about "economies of scale" and "synergy" between widely divergent divisions. No one mentioned the dis economies of scale, the astonishing increase in bureaucracy or the fact that IRL the ballistic missile submarine division has not helped in the construction of new aircraft, or vice versa.  :(
Quote
The only way would be for the whole firm to base in the UK with UK government maintain a golden share, that I presume would be completely unacceptable for the US government and the Pentagon.
The UK Govt already has a "Golden" share. BAE gets on demand access to the Prime Ministers office, something I doubt even the CEO of LM can match. Something I don't think any CEO should have as a right.

IRL AFIK the bulk of BAE's income does not come from the UK, I'm not convinced it's designed-exactly-to-MoD-requirments products are better than other countries across the board and in the case of the Nimrod MR4 project, werevastly expensive and a total failure to deliver a capability, as welling as killing a whole (large) aircrew in the process.  :(

"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Offline francesco nicoli

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1650 on: 07/12/2016 09:29 AM »
Finally!

FT reports Sabre getting the money it was promised (10 M eur + 50M pounds)

Also, the FT reports the creation of a REL subsidiary in US to deal with US gvt contracts. it will be led by a former Lockheed executive.

https://next.ft.com/content/f879fe82-4782-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab#axzz4E8vmccUO
« Last Edit: 07/12/2016 09:32 AM by francesco nicoli »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1651 on: 07/12/2016 01:15 PM »
ESA on SABRE:

http://tinyurl.com/zuerv9z (was a massive ESA URL, so shortened it).

Offline Star One

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1652 on: 07/12/2016 02:45 PM »
Just hope Brexit doesn't blow this whole project off course.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1653 on: 07/12/2016 03:16 PM »
Just hope Brexit doesn't blow this whole project off course.
Or this thread, yet again.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Online Alpha_Centauri

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1654 on: 07/12/2016 05:00 PM »
At this rate perhaps we should Brexit more often... ;)

Anyway I don't know if this has been discussed previously but the Beeb has more about a tie-up with small-sat launcher project Orbital Access Limited to get flight data with scaled down versions of SABRE.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36773074

Quote
But because the engine technology is considered scalable, Reaction Engines announced at Farnborough that it is also joining a consortium to look at the feasibility of putting reduced-sized power units on smaller vehicles that could run out of Prestwick airport.

Orbital Access Limited is the company behind the effort to turn the Scottish aviation centre into a spaceport. It is already working with BAE Systems - a major shareholder in REL - to turn a DC10 into a flying platform from which to launch rocket-carrying satellites.

It is keen to see if it is possible to piggyback additional launch services on some of the future test flight models that Reaction Engines will build to further develop Sabre.

"What this study aims to do is to look at those vehicle concepts and evaluate which sorts of configurations can yield commercial payload capabilities," explains Orbital's CEO Stuart McIntyre.

"If you take a Sabre test engine, put wings on it and go fly it, all you'll get is some engineering answers. But if we do these flight tests in a certain way, where you plug a top stage to these vehicles, it may then be possible for REL to get their air test data and for us to launch payloads."

Edit; the article above appears to have been edited, it previously mentioned that "The Sabre/Prestwick feasibility study is receiving a £250,000 grant from the UKSA."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36773074
« Last Edit: 07/12/2016 05:14 PM by Alpha_Centauri »

Offline SICA Design

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1655 on: 07/12/2016 07:06 PM »
A minor point maybe, but it appears "SABRE" has become "Sabre" in REL nomenclature. Apart from the article above, Richard Varvill has been using "Sabre" recently.

Online LM13

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1656 on: 07/12/2016 07:14 PM »
A minor point maybe, but it appears "SABRE" has become "Sabre" in REL nomenclature. Apart from the article above, Richard Varvill has been using "Sabre" recently.

That might just be the BBC--to my recollection, they have also customarily called NASA "Nasa."  A British acquaintance of mine once told me that it's not customary on that side of the Atlantic to capitalize all letters in an acronym.

Online Alpha_Centauri

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1657 on: 07/12/2016 07:18 PM »
^^
Yes that's because of changes to media style guides that are, in my opinion, butchering the language.
« Last Edit: 07/12/2016 07:45 PM by Alpha_Centauri »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1658 on: 07/12/2016 07:33 PM »
At this rate perhaps we should Brexit more often... ;)

Anyway I don't know if this has been discussed previously but the Beeb has more about a tie-up with small-sat launcher project Orbital Access Limited to get flight data with scaled down versions of SABRE.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36773074
Edit; the article above appears to have been edited, it previously mentioned that "The Sabre/Prestwick feasibility study is receiving a £250,000 grant from the UKSA."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36773074
I've never heard of Orbital Access Limited before.

And I'm very surprised that they think SABRE is scalable down to that sort of size.

IIRC the big issue remains the LH2 pump due to the still high chamber pressure needed, although SABRE 4 seems to offer a possible much lower pressure chamber for the pure rocket mode.

This opens possibilities.

Keep in mind that due to its nature REL will probably need to consider the whole nacelle carrying it as well. That strongly suggests work in fibre reinforced SiC or some kind of RCC, of which there are a number of mfg in Europe, notably in Germany.
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Offline SICA Design

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (5)
« Reply #1659 on: 07/12/2016 07:45 PM »
A minor point maybe, but it appears "SABRE" has become "Sabre" in REL nomenclature. Apart from the article above, Richard Varvill has been using "Sabre" recently.

That might just be the BBC--to my recollection, they have also customarily called NASA "Nasa."  A British acquaintance of mine once told me that it's not customary on that side of the Atlantic to capitalize all letters in an acronym.

Richard Varvill is the Chief Engineer at REL - he is using "Sabre" in email. He has also referred recently to the possibility of TSTO, which may have been an informal reference to the Orbital Access work.

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