Author Topic: Save Atlas 5A (56-6742) rocket from being scrapped - Campaign and Fundraiser  (Read 46405 times)

Offline rayleighscatter

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 415
  • Likes Given: 189
No professional curator would allow an artifact to meet this fate.
It's not uncommon at all. Huntsville has a bunch of rockets rotting away in the woods, KSC has had rockets fall over several times in hurricanes, Enterprise was damaged in New York, the Saturn V at JSC is so deteriorated that it couldn't be moved.

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 5083
No professional curator would allow an artifact to meet this fate.
It's not uncommon at all. Huntsville has a bunch of rockets rotting away in the woods, KSC has had rockets fall over several times in hurricanes, Enterprise was damaged in New York, the Saturn V at JSC is so deteriorated that it couldn't be moved.
You forgot the Saturn V that sat in the VAB parking lot for some 30 years, allowed to corrode and packed full of nests and bird $hit...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Online Helodriver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 929
  • Liked: 4831
  • Likes Given: 512
No professional curator would allow an artifact to meet this fate.
It's not uncommon at all. Huntsville has a bunch of rockets rotting away in the woods, KSC has had rockets fall over several times in hurricanes, Enterprise was damaged in New York, the Saturn V at JSC is so deteriorated that it couldn't be moved.
You forgot the Saturn V that sat in the VAB parking lot for some 30 years, allowed to corrode and packed full of nests and bird $hit...

Yes, true, but in the end they just didn't say F*{K it and push them off a truck behind a building. Those rockets were all preserved.

Offline rayleighscatter

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 415
  • Likes Given: 189

Yes, true, but in the end they just didn't say F*{K it and push them off a truck behind a building. Those rockets were all preserved.
No they weren't.

http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19750832000


Offline Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 641
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 103
  • Likes Given: 82
You forgot the Saturn V that sat in the VAB parking lot for some 30 years, allowed to corrode and packed full of nests and bird $hit...

Closer to 20, actually (1975-1995)

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 5083
You forgot the Saturn V that sat in the VAB parking lot for some 30 years, allowed to corrode and packed full of nests and bird $hit...

Closer to 20, actually (1975-1995)
Inflation... ;D
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10313
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 700
  • Likes Given: 728
As of Saturday, the rocket is still in one piece, sort of. It is crumpled quite a bit around the nose, and is stored outside behind a building.

John

thought things were ok when it was put on the trailer, but these pics sicken me >:(

and this: " Crews loaded the 59-year-old rocket onto a large flatbed truck [Wednesday] for its final descent to a storage facility. Once there it will be permanently dismantled as per the instructions from its owner, the United States Air Force."

On the grounds some "storage facility".
« Last Edit: 03/02/2015 07:41 PM by Prober »
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10935
  • Liked: 2422
  • Likes Given: 1

Yes, true, but in the end they just didn't say F*{K it and push them off a truck behind a building. Those rockets were all preserved.
No they weren't.

http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19750832000

There are lots of rockets and missiles in lots of locations, and their conditions vary, of course. Usually museums have a collection strategy that guides their priorities. Generally speaking, it goes something like this:

-this museum collects artifacts that are in specific areas
-the museum seeks to collect artifacts in its areas based upon their historical basis. For instance, did the artifact itself do something historically significant? Is it the only one of its kind? Is it in some other way unique? Are there lots of others like it in lots of other museums?
-how big is it? Will it fit in the existing museum space?
-how much does it cost to preserve it? How much will it cost to restore it?

So the fact that one missile, like the one linked above, is sitting outside, not restored, is not proof of anything. Are there other similar missiles preserved? Is this part of their core collection? Is it unique? All those factors are important.

Offline rayleighscatter

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 415
  • Likes Given: 189

Yes, true, but in the end they just didn't say F*{K it and push them off a truck behind a building. Those rockets were all preserved.
No they weren't.

http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19750832000

There are lots of rockets and missiles in lots of locations, and their conditions vary, of course. Usually museums have a collection strategy that guides their priorities. Generally speaking, it goes something like this:

-this museum collects artifacts that are in specific areas
-the museum seeks to collect artifacts in its areas based upon their historical basis. For instance, did the artifact itself do something historically significant? Is it the only one of its kind? Is it in some other way unique? Are there lots of others like it in lots of other museums?
-how big is it? Will it fit in the existing museum space?
-how much does it cost to preserve it? How much will it cost to restore it?

So the fact that one missile, like the one linked above, is sitting outside, not restored, is not proof of anything. Are there other similar missiles preserved? Is this part of their core collection? Is it unique? All those factors are important.
Right, which gets back to my earlier point about how its not uncommon for museums to treat artifacts like that. Whether its the Smithsonian and US Space and Rocket Center dumping a Titan in the woods, or the Canadian Science and Technology Museum and the USAF Museum turning an Atlas rocket into soda cans.

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 5083
Ok so you made your point (rayleighscatter) whatever it was...  If you do not want to save a unique artifact then don’t donate or make institutions aware of the Atlas. To all others, if you do, please donate some money, time or effort...
Thank You! :)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/287720970/save-the-atlas
« Last Edit: 03/03/2015 03:44 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Kansan52

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 863
  • Hutchinson, KS
  • Liked: 255
  • Likes Given: 305
Just received from Jennifer"

"Charley,

The US Air Force is still in discussion regarding the Atlas. They are on the fence about whether to even consider lending it to another facility or continuing on its disposal course. They did in fact want the rocket back for themselves, but believed that the condition could not be stabilized/restored. This is why it was marked for disposal, because they believed that it could not be saved, not because they just did not want it. We have sent them another proposal, that if we are willing to send a spacecraft restoration expert out to inspect the condition and give their opinion on whether it can be saved or if the damage is irreparable. We are asking that if we are willing to do this and can handle the cost, would the US Air Force consider lending us the rocket then.

I'll keep you updated.

Jennifer "

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 5083
Just received from Jennifer"

"Charley,

The US Air Force is still in discussion regarding the Atlas. They are on the fence about whether to even consider lending it to another facility or continuing on its disposal course. They did in fact want the rocket back for themselves, but believed that the condition could not be stabilized/restored. This is why it was marked for disposal, because they believed that it could not be saved, not because they just did not want it. We have sent them another proposal, that if we are willing to send a spacecraft restoration expert out to inspect the condition and give their opinion on whether it can be saved or if the damage is irreparable. We are asking that if we are willing to do this and can handle the cost, would the US Air Force consider lending us the rocket then.

I'll keep you updated.

Jennifer "
Sounds promising Charley, thank you for your effort thus far. Considering what has been done to her, she appears to be holding up quite well. :)
« Last Edit: 03/04/2015 08:24 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 5083
Looks like I am the first backer of this project ;) I also contacted http://www.capemuseum.org/index.html to see if they have any ideas on how to help.
Did anyone from the Cape ever get back to you and if they would like her for display?
« Last Edit: 03/04/2015 08:37 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline John-H

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 77
Just received from Jennifer"

"Charley,

The US Air Force is still in discussion regarding the Atlas. They are on the fence about whether to even consider lending it to another facility or continuing on its disposal course. They did in fact want the rocket back for themselves, but believed that the condition could not be stabilized/restored. This is why it was marked for disposal, because they believed that it could not be saved, not because they just did not want it. We have sent them another proposal, that if we are willing to send a spacecraft restoration expert out to inspect the condition and give their opinion on whether it can be saved or if the damage is irreparable. We are asking that if we are willing to do this and can handle the cost, would the US Air Force consider lending us the rocket then.

I'll keep you updated.

Jennifer "
Sounds promising Charley, thank you for your effort thus far. Considering what has been done to her, she appears to be holding up quite well. :)
- shes
As of today (Saturday) the rocket is under a tarpaulin and there is a guard nearby  -  a woman said she was supposed to watch it, but she didn't know what plans they had for it.

Here is my own completely non expert opinion on the state of the rocket. The nose cone is a solid chunk of metal and is in beautiful shape, but it appears to be very heavy and the shell cannot support its weight when it is horizontal. The front of the tank has been pulled down and crumpled by the weight of the nose, but it is a single very thin steel plate, and could be straightened with a block and a plastic hammer. The lower body and skirt seem to be all there, as are the engines, and the only rust seems to be the bottom outside of the engine bells. The inside of the base has some dirt, but there is a lot of interesting plumbing and wiring.

It would be an interesting display, especially if you could look inside the base.

John

Offline robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17773
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 441
  • Likes Given: 3329
As of Saturday, the rocket is still in one piece, sort of. It is crumpled quite a bit around the nose, and is stored outside behind a building.

John

Just found this thread today.

I remember so well the many times I had driven by the museum when I lived in Ottawa as a kid/teenager, had visited the museum, and often looked in awe at that rocket. Now I can barely stand seeing her crumpled nose.

I am nothing short of disgusted at the treatment of a piece of history like this. Shameful.

I need to be alone. Where's that scotch...
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline Kansan52

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 863
  • Hutchinson, KS
  • Liked: 255
  • Likes Given: 305
I've been kicking around an idea that would require someone near where the Atlas lays to provide a photographic survey.

If someone would do it, I would ask the Space Works for a restoration quote based on the photos.

It may be a stupid idea since the Air Force hasn't OKed anyone permission to restore but if it is too badly worn or damaged, this might be a way to know.

Offline Kansan52

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 863
  • Hutchinson, KS
  • Liked: 255
  • Likes Given: 305
Well, my photo idea seems unneeded after this update:

"Atlas Update:

There is another museum interested in the rocket, NASA Glenn. If they decide they want it, then they get priority over us since they are a government facility. If they decide that they do not want it, then we will be given a chance to perform a site visit. If it reaches this point, our CEO has approved for Joe Sembrat (senior conservator with Conservation Solutions Inc. in Ottawa) to inspect the rocket and perform a condition assessment for us. NASA Glenn will be performing their site visit in a few weeks.

Jennifer"

Offline Antilope7724

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
  • Watched Freedom 7 on live TV
  • California
  • Liked: 276
  • Likes Given: 249
Well, even in its current condition, the Atlas 5A is still in better shape than the WRESAT Redstone.  :o

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12777
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 3548
  • Likes Given: 607
I suppose we'll never know why NASA Glenn didn't get to inspect this Atlas before it was yanked down and bent.   

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7946
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 5083
I suppose we'll never know why NASA Glenn didn't get to inspect this Atlas before it was yanked down and bent.   

 - Ed Kyle
My theory is that they want to initiate construction on that land as the spring begins, hence the rush. We’ll see if it proves true...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Tags: