Author Topic: Apollo 12  (Read 21754 times)

Online Ronpur50

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Apollo 12
« on: 11/14/2014 10:56 AM »
45 years ago, my favorite mission to the moon started!!

Go Conrad, Gordan and Bean!

Online Ronpur50

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #1 on: 11/14/2014 10:58 AM »

Offline wolfpack

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #2 on: 11/14/2014 01:55 PM »
If I'm ever in a machine (airplane, rocket, whatever) that has an electrical problem, I want Pete Conrad in it! :)

Offline rocketguy101

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #3 on: 11/14/2014 02:21 PM »
If I'm ever in a machine (airplane, rocket, whatever) that has an electrical problem, I want Pete Conrad in it! :)
or John Aaron :)
David

Offline Orbiter

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #4 on: 11/14/2014 02:34 PM »
CSM onboard audio of the Apollo 12 launch.

Attended space missions: STS-114, STS-124, STS-128, STS-135, Atlas V "Curiosity", Delta IV Heavy NROL-15, Atlas V MUOS-2, Delta IV Heavy NROL-37, SpaceX CRS-9, SpaceX JCSAT-16, Atlas V GOES-R, SpaceX SES-11.

Offline Orbiter

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #5 on: 11/14/2014 02:38 PM »
Here's the flight transcript of the dramatic first stage flight from above.

000:00:37 Gordon (onboard): What the hell was that?

000:00:38 Conrad (onboard): Huh?

000:00:39 Gordon (onboard): I lost a whole bunch of stuff; I don't know ...

000:00:40 Conrad (onboard): Turn off the buses.

Public Affairs Office - "40 seconds."

000:00:42 Carr: Mark.

000:00:43 Carr: One Bravo.

000:00:43 Conrad (onboard): Roger. We had a whole bunch of buses drop out.

000:00:44 Conrad: Roger. We [garble] on that. [Long pause.]

000:00:45 Bean (onboard): There's nothing - it's nothing ...

000:00:47 Gordon (onboard): A circuit ...

000:00:48 Conrad (onboard): Where are we going?

000:00:50 Gordon (onboard): I can't see; there's something wrong.

000:00:51 Conrad (onboard): AC Bus 1 light, all the fuel cells ...

000:00:56 Conrad (onboard): I just lost the platform.

Public Affairs Office - "Altitude a mile and a half now. Velocity 1,592 feet per second."

000:01:00 Bean: [Garble] Got your GDC.

000:01:02 Conrad: Okay, we just lost the platform, gang. I don't know what happened here; we had everything in the world drop out.

000:01:08 Carr: Roger.

Public Affairs Office - "Plus one."

000:01:09 Gordon (onboard): I can't - There's nothing I can tell is wrong, Pete.

000:01:12 Conrad: I got three fuel cell lights, an AC bus light, a fuel cell disconnect, AC bus overload 1 and 2, Main Bus A and B out. [Long pause.]

[Conrad from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "I didn't notice the rate changes, because, at 36 seconds, I first noticed that something had happened outside the spacecraft . I was aware of a white light . I knew that we were in the clouds; and, although I was watching the gauges I was aware of a white light. The next thing I noted was that I heard the Master Alarm ringing in my ears and I glanced over to the caution and warning panel and it was a sight to behold. There's a little disagreement among us and I'll have to look at the tapes, but my recollection of what I called out was three Fuel Cell lights, both AC 1 Bus and AC 1 Overload, Fuel Cell Disconnect, Main A and B Bus Overload lights, and I was not aware of AC 2 lights. Dick thought they were on. I don't think they were because I remember thinking that the only lights that weren't on of the electrical system was AC 2 and maybe I ought to configure for an AC Bus 1 out."]

[Gordon from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "Let me make a comment here. A considerable length of time elapsed between the time those lights came on and when Pete read them off to the ground. I can't swear positively that they were all on. To help Al, my usual habit was, when any light came on during the boost phase, to read it out so that he didn't have to be concerned with which light it was. My recollection is that when I first glanced up there I didn't read any of them to him, but I scanned all of them and the only thing I said to him was, " Al, all the lights are on." I am under the impression that at one time, or initially at least, they were all on. Pete read it out quite a bit later. We'd talked about it and you read them out a minute or so later."]

000:01:21 Bean (onboard): I got AC.

000:01:22 Conrad (onboard): We got AC?

000:01:23 Bean (onboard): Yes.

000:01:24 Conrad (onboard): Maybe it's just the indicator. What do you got on the main bus?

000:01:26 Bean (onboard): Main bus is - The volt indicated is 24 volts.

[Conrad from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "I went back to my gauges and ascertained that everything was running on my side. About this time, the platform tumbled. The next thing I noted was that the ISS light was on. This was obvious because my number 1 ball was doing 360s (that is, spinning round and round. Ed.). I even took the time to peek under the card and we had a Program Alarm light, the Gimbal light, and a No Att light. So we lit up just about everything in the spacecraft. Since that time, we found out that we were hit a second time and that's probably what did the platform in. When the platform went, Al was telling me that we had voltage on all buses and that we had all buses. I remember him telling me that the voltage was low - 24 volts."]

[Bean from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "We got all the lights. I didn't have an idea in the world what happened. My first thought was that we might have aborted, but I didn't feel any g's, so I didn't think that was what had happened. My second thought was that somehow the electrical connection between the Command Module and the Service Module had separated, because all three fuel cells had plopped off and everything else had gone. I immediately started working the problem from the low end of the pole. I looked at both AC buses and they looked okay, so that was a little confusing."]

[Gordon from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "You looked at the voltage meters, not the lights."]

[Bean from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "Yes, that's right. I looked at the volts - the lights were on. I looked a t the voltage and the voltage on all phases was good. This was a little confusing. Usually when you see an ac over-voltage light, either a inverter goes off or you have one of the ac phases reading zero and you have to take the inverter off. In this case, they all looked good and that was a bit confusing. I switched over and took a look at the main buses. There was power on both, although the voltage was down to about 24, which was a lot lower than normal. I looked at the fuel cells and they weren't putting out a thing. I looked at the battery buses and they were putting out the same 24 volts. They were hooked into the mains and it turned out that they were supplying the load. As I did this, I kept telling Pete we had power on all these buses. One of the rules of space flight is you don't make any switch-a-roos with that electrical system unless you've got a good idea why you're doing it. If you don't have power at all, you might change a couple of switches to see what will happen. When you have power and everything is working, you don't want to switch too much. I didn't have any idea what had happened. I wasn't aware anything had taken place outside of the spacecraft. I was visualizing something down in the electrical systems."]

[Conrad from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "We had a crew rule to handle electrical emergencies. Al did not do any switching without first telling me what he was going to do. When he told me that we had power on all buses, I remember making the comment to him not to do anything until we got through staging."]

000:01:29 Conrad (onboard): Huh?

000:01:30 Bean (onboard): Twenty-four volts, which is low.

000:01:33 Conrad (onboard): We've got a short on it of some kind. But I can't believe the volt...

000:01:36 Carr: Apollo 12, Houston. Try SCE to auxiliary. Over.

000:01:39 Conrad: Try FCE to Auxiliary. What the hell is that?

000:01:41 Conrad: NCE to auxiliary...

000:01:42 Gordon (onboard): Fuel cell...

000:01:43 Carr: SCE, SCE to auxiliary. [Long pause.]

000:01:45 Conrad (onboard): Try the buses. Get the buses back on the line.

000:01:48 Bean (onboard): It looks - Everything looks good.

000:01:50 Conrad (onboard): SCE to Aux.

000:01:52 Gordon (onboard): The GDC is good.

000:01:54 Conrad (onboard): Stand by for the - I've lost the event timer; I've lost the...

Public Affairs Office - "Comm reports the reading is back."

000:01:57 Carr: Mark. One Charlie.

000:02:00 Conrad: One Charlie.

000:02:01 Gordon (onboard): Two minutes. EDS, Auto, is Off.

000:02:03 Conrad (onboard): Yes.

000:02:04 Conrad (onboard): EDS, Auto...

[Gordon from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "Let me inject something here. During this time, we didn't have any roll or any calls from the ground or anything. I didn't hear I-B called out; during all the confusion of all the lights, I did not throw the RCS propellant command to RCS. I missed that switch. The next thing I recall being called from the ground after this electrical problem got sorted out in everybody's mind was a I-C call and I thought, "I've got to get over here," and I turned off the RCS propellant command at that time. Then, in 2 minutes, I got the EDS. I guess the rules say that when you lose a fuel cell you turn off the EDS; but there was so much confusion at that time that I just got the EDS functions at the 2 minute time."]

[Conrad from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "I guess the most serious thing was the second lightning strike, which we weren't aware of. I was under the impression we lost the platform simply because of low voltage but apparently that's not the case. Apparently we got hit a second time at that point. Dick's right with that EDS Auto enabled. All we needed to do was blow a battery off the line and I have a decided impression we would have gotten an Auto abort."]

[Gordon from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "No, you need two of them."]

[Conrad from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "I think because of previous crew briefings, there were no surprises in S-IC staging. We got all the good things that most people mentioned and so much for that."]

000:02:06 Carr: Apollo 12, Houston. Go for staging.

000:02:10 Conrad: Roger. Go for staging we had some really big glitch, gang?
Attended space missions: STS-114, STS-124, STS-128, STS-135, Atlas V "Curiosity", Delta IV Heavy NROL-15, Atlas V MUOS-2, Delta IV Heavy NROL-37, SpaceX CRS-9, SpaceX JCSAT-16, Atlas V GOES-R, SpaceX SES-11.

Online Ronpur50

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #6 on: 11/14/2014 09:24 PM »
I have this memory of watching a Captain Kangaroo episode in which the Captain was showing us what would happen on this mission with a LEM mockup and lunar surface.  But I have yet seen anything to confirm my memory!


Offline Hog

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #7 on: 11/14/2014 10:06 PM »
I have this memory of watching a Captain Kangaroo episode in which the Captain was showing us what would happen on this mission with a LEM mockup and lunar surface.  But I have yet seen anything to confirm my memory!
My Aunt once had to administer CPR to Captain Kangaroo after he collapsed of an apparent heart attack.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Wow, was that ever an exciting launch.  The Saturn-V is such a huge launcher, it must have been quite the sight to see.  Way to go Apollo 12!
Paul

Offline HDTVGuy

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #8 on: 11/14/2014 11:38 PM »
You have to love a guy who replies to getting struck by lightning twice by saying "Think we need to do a little more all-weather testing.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #9 on: 11/15/2014 12:40 AM »
Apollo 12 was great until the Color (!) TV camera burned out during the early moments of the first moon walk, and we who were watching were left staring at a mostly blank screen.  We never got to see Surveyor on TV, or much of anything.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 11/15/2014 12:43 AM by edkyle99 »

Offline Alpha Control

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #10 on: 11/15/2014 12:58 AM »
CSM onboard audio of the Apollo 12 launch.



Thanks, Orbiter, for the CGI video of the launch. Enjoyed watching it while listening to the audio. Quite the 1st stage launch indeed!

Space launches attended:
Antares/Cygnus ORB-D1 Wallops Island, VA Sept 2013 | STS-123 KSC, FL March 2008 | SpaceShipOne Mojave, CA June 2004

Online bkellysky

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #11 on: 11/15/2014 01:00 AM »
I remember the launch very well!
I was in 8th grade and we had a TV in our Social Studies class so we could watch the launch, but we only had audio, no picture.  I heard enough of the air/ground link behind the commentary to think something had happened that wasn't supposed to happen, even though the commentary was not mentioning the loss of electrical busses in the CM.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #12 on: 11/15/2014 03:00 AM »
Here's my favorite Apollo 12 launch photo -- it's so moody, the rocket lifting into almost black skies.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #13 on: 11/15/2014 03:23 AM »
And from the tower, in the midst of the rainstorm...

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #14 on: 11/15/2014 04:04 AM »
Yes, the transcript Orbiter posted is the version that came out in the on-board tape transcript.  Based on my own listening to the tape, and the comments from some involved (including Conrad himself), I'd like to offer a few corrections to the attributions.  (The words transcribed are mostly correct, but the attributions are pretty poor right at the beginning of the glitch.)


(Beginning of period during which Houston could hear nothing but snatches of voices, mostly drowned out by static.  dvd)

000:00:37 Gordon Conrad (onboard): What the hell was that?

(This is based, in addition to my own identification of the voice from the tape, on the fact that Conrad reported seeing a bright light through the BPC window and had commented on the bright light and immediate vibration of the thunder that passed right around the vehicle.  dvd)

000:00:38 Conrad Gordon (onboard): Huh?

000:00:39 Gordon Conrad (onboard): ...just lost a whole bunch of stuff; I don't know ...

000:00:40 Conrad Bean (onboard): ...turn off the buses.

(This sounds like Al to me on the tape, and since Bean was in the right seat where all the CSM electrical system monitors were located, it makes sense for him to be commenting on the AC buses.  Also, I've always thought he was saying something like "Who turned off the buses?" but was garbled enough that you can't make out the entire statement as the semi-startled question I believe it was.  dvd)

Public Affairs Office - "40 seconds."

000:00:42 Carr: Mark.

000:00:43 Carr: One Bravo.

000:00:43 Conrad (onboard): Roger. We had a whole bunch of buses drop out.

(This last not heard by Houston; communications still drowned out by static, and Pete may not have pressed his PTT button, which was necessary to actually transmit to the ground.  The way the comm system was set up during launches, the crew was on VOX to each other but had to press the PTT button to be heard on the air-to-ground loop.  dvd)

000:00:44 Conrad: Roger. We [garble] on that. [Long pause.]

(Again, while Pete may have tried to reply to Houston here, it was drowned out by static and not intelligible.  dvd)

000:00:45 Bean (onboard): There's nothing - it's nothing ...

000:00:47 Gordon Conrad (onboard): A circuit ...

000:00:48 Conrad Bean (onboard): Where are we going?

(This sounds like Bean to me on the tape, and fits with Bean's later commentary that he initially thought that the CSM had aborted and been pulled off the stack by the LES, thus having separated from the SM and the fuel cells that had just gone offline.  This was reinforced by the booming thunder sound that accompanied the light flash that Conrad saw, but Al finally decided, shortly after this statement, that he ought to have felt the G's if the LES had fired, so they must still be on the stack.  dvd)

000:00:50 Gordon (onboard): I can't see; there's something wrong.

000:00:51 Conrad (onboard): AC Bus 1 light, all the fuel cells ...

(Between these two comments by Pete, the second lightning strike occurs.  dvd)

000:00:56 Conrad (onboard): I just lost the platform.

Public Affairs Office - "Altitude a mile and a half now. Velocity 1,592 feet per second."

000:01:00 Bean: [Garble] Got your GDC.

(End of period during which Houston only heard snatches of voices that were mostly drowned out by static.  dvd)

000:01:02 Conrad: Okay, we just lost the platform, gang. I don't know what happened here; we had everything in the world drop out.

000:01:08 Carr: Roger.

Public Affairs Office - "Plus one."

000:01:09 Gordon (onboard): I can't - There's nothing I can tell is wrong, Pete.

(This is the timeframe when both Pete and Dick recall Dick saying, of the warning lights on the Caution and Warning panel, "They're all on."  But, per the tapes, Dick never actually said that.  This is the best place where they could both have thought that Dick said something like that.  Al was too busy trying to psych out why the fuel cells weren't feeding currents and yet were telling him they had good reactant flows to recall the call-outs during these few seconds.  dvd)

000:01:12 Conrad: I got three fuel cell lights, an AC bus light, a fuel cell disconnect, AC bus overload 1 and 2, Main Bus A and B out. [Long pause.]

000:01:21 Bean (onboard): I got AC.

000:01:22 Conrad (onboard): We got AC?

000:01:23 Bean (onboard): Yes.

(Recall that the fuel cells put out DC power.  The AC power was generated using AC converters and then fed into the AC Main A and Main B buses.  With a major glitch on the buses, Conrad seemed surprised that the AC converters hadn't shut down, as well -- during sims, it was more common to lose the converters and have good power coming in from the fuel cells.  At this moment, they were facing the exact opposite situation, and so Pete was, perhaps, a little surprised.  dvd)

000:01:24 Conrad (onboard): Maybe it's just the indicator. What do you got on the main bus?

000:01:26 Bean (onboard): Main bus is - the volt indicated is 24 volts.

000:01:29 Conrad (onboard): Huh?

000:01:30 Bean (onboard): Twenty-four volts, which is low.

000:01:33 Conrad (onboard): We've got a short on it of some kind. But I can't believe the volt...

000:01:36 Carr: Apollo 12, Houston. Try SCE to auxiliary. Over.

000:01:39 Conrad: Try FCE to Auxiliary. What the hell is that?

000:01:41 Conrad: NCE to auxiliary...

000:01:42 Gordon (onboard): Fuel cell...

(Here I think that Dick was trying to make sense of the mis-heard acronym FCE -- thinking the FC must stand for Fuel Cell.  dvd)

000:01:43 Carr: SCE, SCE to auxiliary. [Long pause.]

000:01:45 Conrad (onboard): Try the buses. Get the buses back on the line.

000:01:48 Bean (onboard): It looks - Everything looks good.

000:01:50 Conrad Bean (onboard): SCE to Aux.

(It is reported in several commentaries that it was Al who both knew where that switch was, and that it was Al who was in a position to reach the switch.  The voice is a little garbled on the tape, but it makes sense to me that Al said this as he flipped the switch.  Calling out your switch throws is a good example of standard NASA cockpit discipline.  dvd)

000:01:52 Gordon (onboard): The GDC is good.

000:01:54 Conrad (onboard): Stand by for the - I've lost the event timer; I've lost the...

Public Affairs Office - "Comm reports the reading is back."

000:01:57 Carr: Mark. One Charlie.

000:02:00 Conrad: One Charlie.

000:02:01 Gordon (onboard): Two minutes. EDS, Auto, is Off.

000:02:03 Conrad (onboard): Yes.

000:02:04 Conrad (onboard): EDS, Auto...

000:02:06 Carr: Apollo 12, Houston. Go for staging.

000:02:10 Conrad: Roger. Go for staging we had some really big glitch, gang?


That's my best correction and commentary on the transcript of the "interesting" first two minutes of Apollo 12.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #15 on: 11/15/2014 04:21 AM »
Finishing up with Twelve's first day of activities, here are a couple more pictures, both in HDTV format of 1920x1080.  First, the receding Earth with a departing SLA panel in the distance, and second, Intrepid sitting snuggled into its S-IVB cocoon, waiting to be snagged out by Yankee Clipper.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #16 on: 11/15/2014 04:40 AM »
And one last thing, since we're doing transcript grabs.  This is one of my favorite quotes from any and all of the Apollo missions.  It comes about four minutes into the TLI burn -- it happened then and not just before launch as depicted in the mini-series "From the Earth to the Moon":


002:48:34 Conrad (onboard): Al Bean, you're on you way to the Moon.

002:48:37 Bean (onboard): Yep, y'all can come along if you like.

002:48:40 Gordon (onboard): All right.


-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
« Last Edit: 11/15/2014 04:42 AM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline rocketguy101

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David

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #18 on: 11/16/2014 02:25 AM »
And as Conrad, Gordon and Bean head out for the Moon, a half-Earth hangs in their black skies...

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline apollolanding

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #19 on: 11/16/2014 01:07 PM »
8 is my favorite Apollo mission but 12 is a very close second and my favorite landing/EVA.  If only Al had found the Hasselblad timer in time, his "seflie" with Surveyor and Conrad would have been amazing.  I cant count how many time's I've watched the "FTETTM" episode.  But the EVA to Surveyor was just amazing.  I know the J missions brought us the most compelling geology but 12 was a great engineering mission.  From the Saturn V chugging its way to orbit despite 2 lightning strikes, the crew not doing anything to compound the problem (despite their colorful and excited chatter), proving pinpoint landing was possible, retrieving hardware from a previous mission to analyze exposure... I will never tire of Apollo 12.  It's no wonder Al Bean turned to painting considering his luck with cameras.
Well here's what could have been.  Sorry, I'm not a Photoshop expert.  If you've ever been on a long car ride with young siblings, you'll understand ;-) "I'm not touching you Beano... I'm not touching you."

     
« Last Edit: 11/16/2014 04:07 PM by apollolanding »
Proud Member of NSF Since 2006-04-10.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #20 on: 11/16/2014 07:27 PM »
Outbound, heading for the Moon...

A few views from 45 years ago:  the sad state of one of the ice-encrusted CM windows, a good shot of Pete's PLSS during the LM inspection, and a view of the LPD scribe marks on Pete's window.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
« Last Edit: 11/16/2014 07:28 PM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #21 on: 11/16/2014 07:34 PM »
And yet a few more views from the TV broadcast that included the LM inspection.

First, a view of the Moon out of a CM window -- this is where CAPCOM quipped that they were "all dressed up and no place to go," and Pete quipped back, "Oh, we're going somewhere, all right.  Can see it getting bigger and bigger, all the time."

Second, a view of Earth from one of the other CM windows.  And finally, Dick Gordon putting the probe back into the tunnel after the LM inspection closeout.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #22 on: 11/17/2014 05:20 AM »
Continuing on in the mission, Yankee Clipper, with Intrepid in tow, arrives at the Moon...

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #23 on: 11/18/2014 02:52 AM »
On Apollo 12, the tradition of sending the first TV broadcast during Rev 2, still in the lopsided LOI-1 orbit, was changed and the crew cranked up their TV camera during their first frontside pass on Rev 1.  So the crew were excited to show the viewers on Earth things they were seeing up close for the first time, themselves.

A few images from the Rev 1 telecast, here... again in the HDTV format of 1920x1080, with the full frame from the TV image shown in the center with dark bands on either side.  (Also, notice that the images from the Apollo 12 CSM TV camera had a small white dot near the bottom.  This was a burned-out phosphor dot that actually was burned out during one of the Apollo 11 telecasts.  The CSM camera for Apollo 12 was the flight article used on Apollo 11, cleaned up and refurbished a bit but with the same vidicon tube.  The lunar surface TV camera on Apollo 12 -- more on which later -- was the CSM camera used on Apollo 10, refinished with light-reflective white paint, monitor removed and an adapter fitted to adapt the sequential color TV camera output to the power/data cable designed to support the Westinghouse B&W  lunar surface TV camera as used on Apollo 11.)

First image is of one of the nearside craters in fairly high sun.  Since Apollo 12 was the west-most of the Apollo landing sites, the sunlit part of the Moon covered more of the nearside, and some things seen under low sun angles on the previous three lunar missions were here under a higher sun, and areas not seen except in Earthlight by earlier crews were seen under low sun angles by Conrad and crew.

Second is a more dramatic image of the Moonscape as the sun sinks lower behind the spacecraft, as it approaches the morning terminator.

Third is a very dramatic image right at the terminator.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #24 on: 11/18/2014 02:55 AM »
On Rev 13, Yankee Clipper and Intrepid came around the corner still docked.  As TV, movie and still cameras clicked away, Intrepid separated from Yankee Clipper in preparation for the descent maneuvers.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #25 on: 11/18/2014 03:05 AM »
PDI -- and a test of whether or not Pete would say, at pitchover, "There it is!" or "Reset the sim, I ain't seein' nothin' I recognize."

It was the first.  In the first image, you can see the Snowman near the top left of the image.  In the second image, I have outlined the visible portion of the Snowman.  Visible is the Surveyor crater (the body), the right and left foot craters and the right hand crater.  Head crater is cut off by the top of the frame.  It's Right Hand crater that is the large-looking crater that wheels through the field of view later in the descent as Intrepid maneuvers around, and that's often mistaken for Surveyor crater.

In the third image, Pete has finished his maneuvering around the Surveyor crater and is beginning to drop straight down.  He's at about 150 to 200 feet, and you can just see dust starting to blow near the bottom center of the frame.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
« Last Edit: 11/18/2014 03:35 AM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #26 on: 11/18/2014 03:10 AM »
Coming down, into a maelstrom of blowing dust.  The front gear secondary strut is visible, and near the surface it's the only thing that isn't an op-art kaleidoscope of radiating dust patterns.  In the final shot, you can see (barely) the shadow of the probe on the right-side landing gear as it reaches for the ground.  The shadow is visible as much upon the dust cloud as on the ground below.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #27 on: 11/18/2014 03:11 AM »
And finally -- INTREPID IS IN PORT!

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline llanitedave

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #28 on: 11/18/2014 03:28 AM »
If I'm ever in a machine (airplane, rocket, whatever) that has an electrical problem, I want Pete Conrad in it! :)

But keep Alan Bean away from the TV camera!
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #29 on: 11/18/2014 04:38 AM »
...keep Alan Bean away from the TV camera!

LOL!  I'll have a couple of images coming up to try and help people understand why Al had such a problem.  Look for them tomorrow.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline llanitedave

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #30 on: 11/18/2014 04:06 PM »
BTW, I loved Alan Bean's segment on the "In the Shadow of the Moon" series.  I'll bet he's a fantastic grandpa to somebody's kids.
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #31 on: 11/18/2014 07:58 PM »
EVA-1 day!

First shot is what we saw when the MESA first deployed and the camera came on.  The important thing to note here is that the camera is looking directly down-sun.  As he descended, Pete rotated the LM in yaw such that the MESA area would be in sunlight, something no other LM commander did.  This has repercussions in about an hour, when Al tries to deploy the camera.

Second shot is Pete coming down the ladder, and the third is of his "Whoopee!" moment, as he jumps from the bottom rung of the ladder onto the LM footpad.  Note that "That may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me" wan't actually what Pete said after stepping onto the lunar surface.  It's what he said jumping from the ladder down to the footpad.  What he said after first setting foot upon the Moon was "Mark.  Off the...  Oooh, is that soft and queasy..."

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #32 on: 11/18/2014 08:06 PM »
More from the all-too-bried hour or so of TV coverage from the beginning of EVA-1.

First, here is Pete standing in the footpad of the LM, about to step onto the surface.

Second, an illustration of how the crew's suits served to light up shadowed areas with reflected light -- in this shot, Pete is to the right of the FOV and about even with the camera at the end of the MESA.  You can see his shadow at the far right side of the screen.  Compare this image, and how comparatively brightly lit the ladder and secondary struts are, to the "empty" image in the post above, or even the image with Pete standing in the footpad.  The light reflected from the suits was significant in illuminating the shadowed areas around the LM.

Third, Pete has just collected the contingency sample and is about to set it, handle and all, on the MESA.  He'll seal it and put it into the ETB for transport up to the cabin in a few minutes.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #33 on: 11/18/2014 08:17 PM »
More of Pete and Al on the Moon...

First, a good view of Pete's head and shoulders.  This gives us a very nice fisheye view of the LM and the lunar surface beyond in the reflection off Pete's visor.

Second, an image that tells us how the suits would have registered in full sun had the camera survived deployment away from the LM.  In most of the shots while the camera is in or in front of the MESA, you mostly see the crew in shadow and the automatic light control (ALC) circuit in the camera maximizes the sensitivity to see well in shadow.  But with Pete out in full sun, on the right side of the screen, the ladder area appear quite dark but Pete is pretty welld efined.  On Apollo 14, the images of the suits and other bright reflections bloomed very badly, to the point where the guys looked like white blobs bobbing along the surface.  From this image, it doesn't look like this camera would have had such bad blooming issues.

Third, a very good picture of Pete back at the ladder; from the context of the discussion happening at the time, I believe he was fiddling with the LEC straps at that time.  This is also the first shot I have from after Pete took the camera out of the MESA and had set it up on the tripod.  From now until Al moves the camera, the image appears inverted on the screens in Houston and around the world -- they had to intentionally invert it for the first segment of the TV coverage, since the camera is loaded into the MESA upside-down.  But the guys managing that manual inversion don't seem to flip it back around properly until Al starts to move it.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #34 on: 11/18/2014 08:22 PM »
As the EVA progresses, Pete finishes up his solo activities and Al joins him on the surface.

First, a very good picture of Pete facing the camera.  The color and definition are good enough that you can see the blue and red hose connections on the torso.

Second, Al comes down the ladder, with very good definition of the suit.  The hoses along the side of the torso are very clear.

Finally, Al stands on the surface, to the greeting from Pete "Welcome aboard!"

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #35 on: 11/18/2014 08:31 PM »
And now, the TV tragedy...

Here we a couple of very blurred pictures.  It's almost impossible to capture these few seconds in screen caps because the camera was moving quite quickly.  When watched in motion, as Al moves the camera, you can see the surface clearly for a moment, you can see the LM structure at and above the MESA, with the plume deflector and its struts showing clearly.  And you can, momentarily, see the sunlight leg of the LM just to the side of the MESA.  These pictures show a blurred image of the surface, and a very motion-blurred image of the LM's leg.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #36 on: 11/18/2014 08:45 PM »
Now... to present a little defense of Al Bean.

The first image is from a panorama taken by Al early during EVA-1.  This is taken from the same location where his checklist told him to set up the TV camera, between 10 and 11 o'clock out (as looking out from the LM's front footpad).  Because Pete rotated the LM to put the MESA into the sun, this location is not located within the LM's shadow, as desired -- it points right into the sun.  And since deploying the camera was supposed to be Pete's job, Al simply looked at the location on his own checklist and put it there.  To his credit, within about 15 seconds he recognized that it was pointed right at the sun and moved it, but the damage was done.

The second image is from a bare moment after the vidicon tube burned through.  You can see some movement through the field of view shown here as blurred movement, though you can barely make out the horizon.  The  third image actually shows reflections off the MESA in the lower left and you can barely make out a shadowy image of the LM leg to its left.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
« Last Edit: 11/19/2014 02:57 PM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #37 on: 11/18/2014 10:31 PM »
Here's a pic of the poor, burned-out camera.  Notice the white painted thermal coating and the large plug adapter about two feet down from where the power/data cord comes out the back of the camera.

As I noted before, this camera is the sequential color camera flown in the CSM cabin on Apollo 10.  The white thermal coating is there to keep it from overheating in the direct unfiltered sunlight, but the plug adapter is interesting, and persisted all the way through Apollo 16.

The power/data cable was designed for the Westinghouse B&W lunar surface camera.  That cable was incompatible with the TV data/power cable used in the CSM.  This adapter allowed the sequential color camera to communicate through the existing cable.  This was a lower-cost, lower-mass solution to the problem, since replacing the existing cable that ran through the descent stage, up into the ascent stage, and thence into the comm subsystem, would have been a real pain in the butt.

This adapter was used on all LMs through Apollo 16 (though, due to a failure of the LM's steerable S-band antenna, was not used on Sixteen).  It was decided to omit it while LM-12 was being constructed, to allow a little more science payload for the later J missions, so there was, by design, no "down the ladder" TV on Seventeen.

And, of course, we have to take a look at what Pete was referring to, as soon as he got on the surface and moved around to look behind Intrepid, when he said "Guess what I see, sitting on the side of the crater?"  Here are a couple of shots of the Surveyor, sitting with its solar panel/antenna mast and one of the omni antennas in the sun, the rest in the early-morning shade of the eastern half of Surveyor crater.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #38 on: 11/19/2014 02:33 AM »
And now for the really big "first" on Apollo 12 -- the deployment of the very first ALSEP.

Here we see Pete pulling on the tapes to open the SEQ Bay doors, Al pulling out the RTG pallet, and the other ALSEP pallet sitting on the ground.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #39 on: 11/19/2014 02:36 AM »
Al fuels the RTG with the plutonium rod.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #40 on: 11/19/2014 02:41 AM »
Al puts the two pallets on each end of the ALSEP antenna, which doubles as a carry bar.  While the ALSEP pallets don't weigh that much in the low lunar gravity, they retain their mass and make the "barbell" flex and therefore hard to handle.

Then Al carries the ALSEP out to the deployment site, where Pete has run ahead to scout out the site.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Online Ronpur50

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #41 on: 11/19/2014 12:24 PM »
Thanks Doug! These are awesome!

Offline mjcrsmith

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #42 on: 11/19/2014 08:05 PM »
This
And now, the TV tragedy...

This in my opinion was a turning point.  The build up was Color TV from the moon. Anticipation and excitement was high as a follow up to 11.

No TV, interest drained.  People moved on.

By the time 14 landed, public interest was lost.



« Last Edit: 11/19/2014 08:05 PM by mjcrsmith »

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #43 on: 11/19/2014 10:06 PM »
This
And now, the TV tragedy...

This in my opinion was a turning point.  The build up was Color TV from the moon. Anticipation and excitement was high as a follow up to 11.

No TV, interest drained.  People moved on.

By the time 14 landed, public interest was lost.

Actually there was already a large "loss" simply from Apollo having "achieved its goals" with Apollo-11. ANYTHING after that was fighting an uphill battle with more pressing concerns for the average person.

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #44 on: 11/21/2014 12:37 AM »
Okay, moving on, here are a few more shots of Pete and Al setting up the ALSEP.  I can't easily tell Pete from Al in these pics, since the idea of adding red stripes to the CDR's suit didn't get implemented until Apollo 13.  Although, looking at the sequence of images, unless Pete and Al changed out cameras or film mags, it appears these three pics were taken by Pete, since just prior to these images the pics on this mag are of Al carrying the ALSEP out to the site.

Also, in this post and the next, note the blue "halo" effect.  This isn't actually a halo from bright sun on the suits -- it's light diffracting through a dust smudge on the camera lens.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #45 on: 11/21/2014 12:40 AM »
And here are another few pics that seem to be of Al, taken by Pete, during ALSEP deploy, as well as a pic of just the ALSEP post-deployment.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
« Last Edit: 11/21/2014 12:41 AM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #46 on: 11/21/2014 12:44 AM »
And finally, for the ALSEP deployment, a couple of pics taken by Al of Pete as he went about his ALSEP deployment tasks, plus a nice close-up of the deployed lunar surface seismometer (LSS).

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #47 on: 11/21/2014 12:52 AM »
And to wrap up the farthest extent of EVA 1, here are a couple of pictures of the mounds located near the ALSEP site, and a nice picture taken from the rim of Middle Crescent crater, a large, shallow old crater just to the west of the ALSEP site, beyond and to the north of Head crater.  Since Pete and Al came up to the crater from the east, their shadows fall down the shallow crater wall and nearly to the center of the crater, more than 300 meters away!

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #48 on: 11/21/2014 01:04 AM »
And, finally for EVA 1, a couple of nice color images of the LM area, taken mostly during EVA 1 closeout, although the third image was taken of the ground directly beneath the engine bell fairly early in the EVA.  Also, note from some of the images that, just to take some of the pans, the crew descended 20 to 30 feet into Surveyor crater during EVA 1.  It was unavoidable if they wanted to get the planned pictures.

Coming soon -- the exciting second EVA and the Surveyor!

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #49 on: 11/23/2014 12:20 AM »
Now on to EVA 2.  (This will be a little less involved than for EVA 1, partially because they only took B&W film mags out for EVA 2, and partially because I'm heading out on the road to visit my elderly mother for Thanksgiving n a few hours, so I don't have tons of time to pull the lunar surface images together for y'all, here.)

First, we have a few "tourist shot" portraits.  The first is the finest image of a moonwalking astronaut I think ever came out of Apollo, even if it is in B&W.  It's of Al Bean holding the Special Environment Sample Container (SESC), basically s can that could be sealed to provide a surefire vacuum environment for a sample.  I believe this was for trying to identify volatiles in a a given sample, and gives a backup to the vacuum seals on the rock boxes.  This image is extremely detailed, gives a great view of the suit and connections, and also a really nice portrait-within-a-portrait of Pete, taking the picture, reflected in Al's visor.

The second image, taken around the same time, of Pete taking the preceding picture.  It's not exactly the same moment, since the image of Al dowsn't show him activating the camera trigger, but it's within a few seconds.  Not quite as sharp, but a good reciprocal of the first pic.

Finally, the actual picture of Al as he takes the picture of Pete taking a picture of Al.  Again, this one was taken three frames after the first image of this sequence, so it's not th ebest image of the set, but it's kewl for the self-referential thing going on here.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #50 on: 11/23/2014 01:40 AM »
As EVA 2 proceeded, Pete's motivator was to "get 'round the circle."  The real-time traverse plan, based on several pre-flight traverse plans roughed in based on a few different possible landing points, ended up being a misshapen circle around the Surveyor crater.  While never wandering terrible far from Intrepid, she nevertheless looked a bit distant from some of their vantage points.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #51 on: 11/23/2014 01:45 AM »
As Pete and Al approached Surveyor crater intending to descend into it and to the Surveyor, Al set down the HTC and tried to find the Hasselblad camera timer he had tossed earlier into the big sample carrying bag.  He couldn't find it, even after tipping all the sample bags out of it and having Pete help him look.  So, after hassling with failing cameras, they approached Surveyor.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #52 on: 11/23/2014 01:49 AM »
When they reached Surveyor but before approaching close in to it, Al (who by then had the only remaining working camera, the dust taking its toll on the other) took a lot of pictures of the Surveyor, its footpads, and its scoop.  It's interesting to see the interaction between the footpads and the surface as Surveyor bounced to a stop -- the crater had fooled its radar into thinking it was still above the surface when it touched down, so the landing jets kept firing for several seconds as Surveyor bounced and hopped down the side of the crater.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #53 on: 11/23/2014 01:53 AM »
Finally, Pete moves in and pushes on Surveyor to make sure it's not likely to slide down the slope on them.  After satisfying themselves that Surveyor was not going anywhere, the took a close look at its TV camera and cut off several pieces.  Once piece they were supposed to cut off, the corner of the top of one of the instrument compartments, resisted the cutter and would not snip off.  You can see the edge they tried to cut off, bent up but otherwise undamaged, in the last image.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #54 on: 11/23/2014 02:06 AM »
And, to wrap up the lunar surface images, here are a few patriotic shots taken during EVA 1 that still make my heart beat just a little faster.

I'll wrap up with return to Earth images when I get back from my road trip.  Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving, everyone!  For me, I will always give thanks for having lived through the Apollo era and seen the sights that I saw.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Online pargoo

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #55 on: 11/23/2014 10:12 AM »
     Ah, so they set out with two b&w magazines on the cameras for EVA 2...
     Why two b&w's instead of one color or *two* color mags?  Were they out of color film?  Were they told to take only b&w?  If a camera with a color magazine jammed would/could they have swapped the magazines out on the surface considering the intensity of the sunlight?  I have always been amazed that on a mission designed to return maximum data per buck that pics of the only spacecraft humans have rendezvoused with on another heavenly body were only taken in b&w.

Offline Bob Shaw

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #56 on: 11/23/2014 10:46 AM »
It's interesting to see the interaction between the footpads and the surface as Surveyor bounced to a stop -- the crater had fooled its radar into thinking it was still above the surface when it touched down, so the landing jets kept firing for several seconds as Surveyor bounced and hopped down the side of the crater.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

The photograph of the Surveyor 3 footpad is a classic, but doesn't quite tell the whole story. Yes, the vehicle bounced a bit on final touchdown, but the *real* bouncing happened further upslope as it skittered down into the crater. So far as I know, no signs of the earlier bounces were to be seen in any of the mission photography. The final jitter as it landed was just a baby bounce!

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #57 on: 11/23/2014 11:17 AM »
How can anyone - anyone - look at these pictures, read about this amazing mission and say 'Manned Missions to the Moon aren't worth it' or 'achieve little' or 'been there; done that' etc. Such B.S. and poppycock!! Long Live Apollos 11 thru 17...  :')
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Offline eric z

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #58 on: 11/23/2014 11:28 AM »
Picture 7133 was always a big favorite! This has been a fantastic look back at a great mission, thank you!
   The Surveyor program itself, and Lunar Orbiter, were mind-boggling and along with Gemini should never be forgotten for their roles in our march to the Moon.

Offline rocketguy101

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #59 on: 11/23/2014 08:31 PM »
If I may post it here, a picture of the scoop that is housed at the Cosmosphere in Kansas...give me a chill looking at it, knowing it was retrieved from surface of the moon...
David

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #60 on: 11/23/2014 09:24 PM »
What kind of analysis was done on the scoop after it came back?  Was it simple examination?  There doesn't appear to be any sign of destructive testing.
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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #61 on: 11/23/2014 11:10 PM »
I was watching the launch footage on the Spacecraft Films Apollo 12 DVD yesterday and I just loved how the crew  was cracking up and laughing after their incident with the lightning strike!  What an amazing crew!

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #62 on: 11/28/2014 03:43 AM »
     Ah, so they set out with two b&w magazines on the cameras for EVA 2...
     Why two b&w's instead of one color or *two* color mags?  Were they out of color film?  Were they told to take only b&w?  If a camera with a color magazine jammed would/could they have swapped the magazines out on the surface considering the intensity of the sunlight?  I have always been amazed that on a mission designed to return maximum data per buck that pics of the only spacecraft humans have rendezvoused with on another heavenly body were only taken in b&w.

They actually did change out film magazines on the EVAs, it was a standard procedure.  There was a dark slide at the film aperture in the magazines that protected them from stray light while being handled, which was removed after the mag was inserted onto the camera.  When you started taking pictures on a new mag, you shot off a couple of waste pictures to advance past any possible light-struck frames, and you also tried to click off a couple of waste pics at the end of the of the mags.  You also kept a set of dark slides to use if you really wanted to put a new dark slide on the mags before you took them off of the cameras.  (Putting the dark slide back in was something observed more in the breach, it was just as easy to waste a couple of frames to avoid light-struck images.  They generally brought plenty of film.)

What happened to Pete and Al was that they had one of the cameras and one of the RCU camera brackets fail just before they started in to walk down to the Surveyor.  Al's camera failed (the handle and trigger assembly broke off, making the camera pretty well unusable) and Pete's camera bracket failed.

When that happened, Al took Pete's camera and they put Al's camera in the Hand Tool Carrier.  Al finished up the B&W roll that was on Pete's camera and then they took the magazine off of Al's broken camera and put it on Pete's camera.  Al then finished photographing the Surveyor activities with the mag that had started out on his own now-failed camera.

There was a color film magazine out on the surface during EVA 2 that was used for some pictures of Earthrise and the Moon, and of Yankee Clipper, during Intrepid's flight prior to PDI.  They had planned to put that mag onto Pete's camera when it ran out of film to finish up the Surveyor pictures with a color set.  But because Al's camera failed and he was only taking half the number of total pictures anticipated (because the film budget for the B&W mags was based on two guys taking pictures), Al finished up all the pictures he could take with the B&W mags they had started out with.  They didn't realize their procedural error until they got back to Earth.

For a while, they thought they had left that particular color mag on the surface, attached to Al's discarded camera, but they actually did bring it back.  You can tell that any pictures from in-flight taken from the LM were taken before landing, because on the first couple of landings they discarded all of the cameras onto the surface before lift-off to save weight.  (Starting with Apollo 14, they brought one of the surface Hasselblads back with them into lunar orbit, to take pictures of the CSM during rendezvous and also take targets of opportunity of lunar surface features as they headed back up the hill.)  Also, on the first couple of landings, any lunar orbital pictures that show the Rousseau markings were taken with the surface cameras, and thus from the LM prior to landing.

This whole episode is sort of special to me because it relates to my own personal experience.  After the TV camera failed, the live coverage on the broadcast networks got curtailed.  So I was lying in my bedroom with a cool new combination radio/TV/cassette tape recorder unit that my Dad had brought home as a demonstrator unit from the office supplies store where he worked.  I used the radio to tune in to any radio broadcast of EVA 2 that I could find and recorded it with the cassette tape unit.  I had on tape about a half hour of EVA 2, centering around the sampling at Halo crater and the driving of the double core, which culminated with the camera breakdown.  I listened to that tape a lot of times over the years since, so it's a very personal memory of this particular EVA.

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

--edited because I had just plain left some words out on my first pass, and reading through it again I decided I needed to clarify a few other statements and fix the order of the dark slide insertions -- you put the mag on the camera and then removed the dark slide, not the other way around.  :)
« Last Edit: 11/28/2014 04:57 AM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #63 on: 11/28/2014 03:57 AM »
     An excellent explanation :)
     It's also evidence - as if we needed any - that the landings weren't faked.  If they were, such a mistake would have been corrected.  The failure of Aldrin to take a posed picture of Neil is of course the best - or worst - example of this.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #64 on: 11/28/2014 05:19 AM »
The photograph of the Surveyor 3 footpad is a classic, but doesn't quite tell the whole story. Yes, the vehicle bounced a bit on final touchdown, but the *real* bouncing happened further upslope as it skittered down into the crater. So far as I know, no signs of the earlier bounces were to be seen in any of the mission photography. The final jitter as it landed was just a baby bounce!

I know, and what's more, Surveyor itself had identified the bounce marks caused by the initial touchdown and by up to four (IIRC) bounces down the crater wall before the verniers cut out.

By that time, Surveyor had built up some lateral velocity, and was basically just skittering down the side of the crater.  The final triple-imprint, IMO, is because the downslope pads dug in and piled up soil in front of them while the upslope pad sort of bounced a bit due to the slide.  (I visualize it as the lander digging in after the verniers cut off and all three pads hit, the downslope pads suddenly slowing the craft and bouncing the upslope pad pitching up in a "nodding" sort of motion as the center of force of the lander shifts up, making those last three prints while the downslope pads are piling up soil and leaving trenches.)

I'm thinking, though, that Surveyor could see the initial impact points primarily due to the albedo change from the soil being disturbed.  The actual impact points on the first few bounces didn't leave crisp imprints from the footpads, at least not that showed clearly in the Surveyor images.  And Surveyor skittered down the east side of the crater, which was either completely in shadow or was under very oblique lighting during Twelve's stay, so they would have been hard to identify by eye, I bet...

-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline TJL

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #65 on: 03/03/2015 11:56 PM »
Where exactly was the intended landing site of Intrepid ("Pete's Parking Lot") in relation to where it actually touched down?
Thank you.

Offline Antilope7724

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #66 on: 03/04/2015 01:59 AM »
Where exactly was the intended landing site of Intrepid ("Pete's Parking Lot") in relation to where it actually touched down?
Thank you.

According to this old newspaper report and chart photo, they were suppose to land 1000 feet East and 500 feet North of the Surveyor III. Instead they overflew the Surveyor crater and landed on the far side of it, from where they had planned to land.

The Victoria Advocate newspaper (Victoria, TX) - Nov 4, 1969
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=sIxeAAAAIBAJ&sjid=U0sNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6928%2C471861
« Last Edit: 03/04/2015 04:51 PM by Antilope7724 »

Offline Antilope7724

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #67 on: 03/04/2015 06:01 AM »
Another piece of Apollo 12 trivia. While filling the Apollo 12 spacecraft fuel cell hydrogen tank, the day before launch, crews discovered a leak. On November 13, 1969 they swapped out the leaking fuel cell hydrogen tank and replaced it with the fuel cell hydrogen tank from the Apollo 13 spacecraft. Good thing they didn't need one of Apollo 13's fuel cell oxygen tanks. Yikes!

Prescott Evening Courier - Nov 13, 1969
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YKdMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Z1ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=5006%2C6197597
« Last Edit: 03/04/2015 06:05 AM by Antilope7724 »

Offline MattMason

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #68 on: 03/04/2015 12:33 PM »
Another piece of Apollo 12 trivia. While filling the Apollo 12 spacecraft fuel cell hydrogen tank, the day before launch, crews discovered a leak. On November 13, 1969 they swapped out the leaking fuel cell hydrogen tank and replaced it with the fuel cell hydrogen tank from the Apollo 13 spacecraft. Good thing they didn't need one of Apollo 13's fuel cell oxygen tanks. Yikes!

Prescott Evening Courier - Nov 13, 1969
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YKdMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Z1ADAAAAIBAJ&pg=5006%2C6197597

Good bit of trivia. As we know, the Apollo 13 incident occurred by chance. I'm re-listening to the flight controller loop for that mission at the time of the incident. There's nothing there to suggest that anyone had any idea what problem existed in that oxygen tank. The cryo stir was, in Director Kranz's words, "at their convenience," suggesting this was just part of the usual housekeeping chores. The accident occurred at the right time where the best variables to save the crew happened to exist.

If that O2 tank didn't bother to stratify until lunar orbit, or later, the heroic recovery of 13 may have had a different ending.

The CM/LM design was also crucial. An Earth Orbit Rendezvous spacecraft has no redundancies as these two spacecraft did. Even the orientation of the LM's propulsion systems and independent but identical guidance computers and ECLSS were benefits to the safe return.
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Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #69 on: 03/04/2015 04:54 PM »
Where exactly was the intended landing site of Intrepid ("Pete's Parking Lot") in relation to where it actually touched down?
Thank you.

Antilope is correct, the landing point where Conrad and Bean practiced to land was short of the Surveyor crater, and just north.

The story is more amusing than this, though.  At first, after the Surveyor III site was designated for their mission, and the pinpoint landing technique was defined, Conrad had the trajectory people plan the landing point just past and slightly north of the Surveyor crater (between it and Head crater), very close to where they actually landed.  Pete then decided he didn't want to overfly the Surveyor, so he asked them to plan the landing point short of the Surveyor crater.  It was this second landing point that was called "the Pete parking lot."  (I've read an interview that it wasn't "Pete's Parking Lot," but "the Pete Parking Lot."  Don't ask me why the trajectory people are insistent on that difference...)

Anyway, Conrad watched while the trajectory people started working the tiny little adjustments necessary to shift the landing point by a few hundred feet, and is quoted as saying "You can't hit it anyway!  Target me for the Surveyor!"  They said "You got it!" and the actual flight targeting was exactly to the landed Surveyor.  Conrad figured there would be significant dispersions, and he would have to manually maneuver to a landing within walking distance of the Surveyor, regardless.  He also knew that the PNGS targeting tended to target a little short, so he didn't want to end up targeting short of the crater and then have the auto-targeting bring him in even shorter, making it that much harder to get himself within said walking distance.

At pitchover during the actual powered descent, Conrad looked out of his window and didn't recognize anything.  But when he glanced at the LPD number that the computer flashed up, he sighted along the 42 degree angle and clearly saw the Snowman crater formation -- and the auto-targeting spot was centered exactly into the middle of the Surveyor crater!

In Apollo, you could tell the P64 landing program to alter the designated landing point with pulses on the hand controller -- a pulse forward moved the landing point downrange, a clockwise twist of the controller moved the landing point north, etc.  Conrad watched as the landing point stayed designated exactly in the center of the Surveyor crater (and he was right, the trajectory guys couldn't designate it exactly where they wanted it -- the auto-targeting would have landed in the center of the crater, about 250 feet west and 100 feet south of the Surveyor's position on the northeast crater wall).  He first designated to the north a couple of clicks, "to move it out of the crater."  Then he redesignated uprange (short), to try and land in the parking lot after all, but decided there were too many little craters and rocks in that area, so he then redesignated a few clicks downrange to try and get just past the Surveyor crater, between it and Head after all.

This ended up with the trajectory aiming past the Surveyor crater and angling to the north, or right, of the crater as he approached.  This took him farther north than he wanted to be.  Conrad switched to P66, the semi-manual control mode, at about 500 feet in altitude, when he was just coming abeam of the Surveyor crater.  He didn't want to go any further to the north, because that would mean walking even farther to get to the geologically interesting craters in and around the Snowman.  So he tipped the LM pretty hard over to the left to bend the final trajectory back to the south.  The resulting trajectory plot shows a perfect little buttonhook-like maneuver where the LM skirted the Surveyor crater but managed to not fly directly over it.

In the descent film, you can see the result of Conrad pitching to the left -- a small crater dubbed Right Hand crater fills the window, and Bean comments "You're really maneuvering around."  (Bean later admits that the angle off vertical Conrad took to maneuver the craft was frightening to him -- Bean had never flown the LLTV, and didn't realize how hard over you had to tilt the LM to get it to turn a corner.)

Conrad wanted to fly it out past the Surveyor crater and land between Surveyor and Head craters.  But he lost his view of the terrain at about 200 feet when the loose dust along the rim of the Surveyor crater started kicking up, so he just stopped his forward and leftward momentum at that point (what he later described as "rounding out high") and started coming straight down.

He ended up landing literally on the rim of the Surveyor crater -- such that the SEQ bay was facing into the crater and, to unload the ALSEP and take pictures of the process, they had to descend down into the crater a bit.  The LRO images clearly show their footprints descending a bit into the crater right behind the LM.

So, while Pete landed almost exactly in the spot he had originally planned, just north and west of the Surveyor crater, he intended to be about 50 feet further west.  And, after landing, he wasn't sure if he was right on the rim of the Surveyor crater, or perhaps had flown farther downrange while he couldn't see the ground and might be on the far rim of Head crater.  That's why he was surprised and pleased, after he got out, to see the Surveyor itself, mostly in shadow, sitting on the side of the crater just behind them.  Leading to the delightful comment "Guess what I see, sitting on the side of the crater?  The old Surveyor, yessir!"

I was so very upset when the TV camera burned out before we could be shown an image of the Surveyor sitting on the crater wall -- but perhaps it was for the best.  The Surveyor was almost directly up-sun from the LM, so even if they had avoided burning out the TV camera when they did, I can't imagine they would have been able to get a good picture of it -- especially during the first EVA -- without burning out the camera at that point, since the sun would almost had to have been in the field of view of any attempt to point the camera at the Surveyor.  It might have been worse, to have the camera fail just as it was being pointed towards the Surveyor.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline TJL

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #70 on: 03/04/2015 10:26 PM »
Thanks, guys!
Just what I was looking for.

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #71 on: 03/04/2015 11:54 PM »
I remember watching that one live when the camera burned out.  I yelled at Alan Bean, but I don't think he heard me.
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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #72 on: 07/25/2017 12:11 AM »
bump for historical video.....

The Apollo 12 Mission 1970 NASA; Second Moon Landing, Pete Conrad

Jeff Quitney
Published on Jul 24, 2017


"Astronauts: Charles Conrad, Jr., Richard F. Gordon, and Alan L. Bean
Launch date: November 14, 1969

Man's second journey to the Moon is for science. The first EVA includes setting up Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package (ALSEP) for the return of scientific data. The second EVA includes a geological traverse and the inspection of Surveyor 3, an unmanned spacecraft that landed on the Moon in 1967. A solar eclipse is recorded, findings to-date are summarized, and commentaries by noted scientists are included.
AWARDS: Golden Missile, Rassegna, Italy, 1970 * Gold Nikola Tesla Medal, International Festival of Scientific Technical Films, Belgrade, Yugoslavia, 1970 * Golden Eagle, Council on International Nontheatrical Events (CINE), 1970 * Certificate of Honor, International Exhibition of Scientific Films, Buenos Aires, Argentina, 1970"

Apollo 12 was the sixth manned flight in the United States Apollo program and the second to land on the Moon (an H type mission). It was launched on November 14, 1969, from the Kennedy Space Center, Florida, four months after Apollo 11. Mission commander Charles "Pete" Conrad and Lunar Module Pilot Alan L. Bean performed just over one day and seven hours of lunar surface activity while Command Module Pilot Richard F. Gordon remained in lunar orbit. The landing site for the mission was located in the southeastern portion of the Ocean of Storms. Unlike the first landing on Apollo 11, Conrad and Bean achieved a precise landing at the site of the Surveyor 3 unmanned probe, which had landed on April 20, 1967... On one of two moonwalks, they visited the Surveyor and removed some parts for return to Earth. The mission ended on November 24 with a successful splashdown.

Apollo 12 launched on schedule from Kennedy Space Center, during a rainstorm. It was the first rocket launch attended by an incumbent US president, Richard Nixon. Thirty-six-and-a-half seconds after lift-off, the vehicle triggered a lightning discharge through itself and down to the earth through the Saturn's ionized plume. Protective circuits on the fuel cells in the service module falsely detected overloads and took all three fuel cells offline, along with much of the CSM instrumentation. A second strike at 52 seconds after launch knocked out the "8-ball" attitude indicator. The telemetry stream at Mission Control was garbled. However, the Saturn V continued to fly correctly.

Once in earth parking orbit, the crew carefully checked out their spacecraft before re-igniting the S-IVB third stage for trans-lunar injection. The lightning strikes had caused no serious permanent damage.

The Apollo 12 mission landed on an area of the Ocean of Storms that had been visited earlier by several unmanned missions (Luna 5, Surveyor 3, and Ranger 7). The International Astronomical Union, recognizing this, christened this region Mare Cognitum (Known Sea). The Lunar coordinates of the landing site were 3.01239 S latitude, 23.42157 W longitude.

To improve the quality of television pictures from the Moon, a color camera was carried on Apollo 12 (unlike the monochrome camera that was used on Apollo 11). Unfortunately, when Bean carried the camera to the place near the lunar module where it was to be set up, he inadvertently pointed it directly into the Sun, destroying the SEC tube. Television coverage of this mission was thus terminated almost immediately.

Apollo 12 successfully landed within walking distance of the Surveyor 3 probe. Conrad and Bean removed pieces of the probe to be taken back to Earth for analysis.

Astronauts Conrad and Bean also collected rocks and set up equipment that took measurements of the Moon's seismicity, solar wind flux, and magnetic field, and relayed the measurements to Earth. The instruments were part of the first complete nuclear-powered ALSEP station set up by astronauts on the Moon to relay long-term data from the lunar surface. The instruments on Apollo 11 were not as extensive or designed to operate long term.

Yankee Clipper returned to Earth on November 24, 1969, at 20:58 UTC (3:58 pm EST, 10:58 am HST) in the Pacific Ocean, approximately 500 nautical miles (800 km) east of American Samoa.

Originally a public domain film from the Library of Congress Prelinger Archives slightly cropped to remove uneven edges, with the aspect ratio corrected, and one-pass brightness-contrast-color correction & mild video noise reduction applied.
The soundtrack was also processed with volume normalization, noise reduction, clipping reduction, and/or equalization (the resulting sound, though not perfect, is far less noisy than the original).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsr8GeM8no?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #73 on: 07/25/2017 04:06 AM »
Launching into a thunderstorm wasn't necessarily the best idea, but they had a narrow launch window. Miss it and you'll have to wait another month for the Moon to be aligned with the Earth properly.

Richard Nixon went down to KSC to watch the launch in person; he was the first president to attend a space launch, to date the only other president to do this was Bill Clinton when he attended the launch of STS-95.

There was concern that the lightning strike had damaged the command module's parachute system, which would mean the death of the astronauts during reentry. After some debate, Mission Control decided to go through with the flight rather than abort and reenter immediately, since NASA policy in the event of a flight failure was to try and carry out as much of the mission as circumstances still permitted. Besides, assuming the parachutes had been damaged, nothing could be done about it anyway so better the astronauts crash into the ocean at 200+ mph after having completed their (extremely expensive) mission than crash into the ocean after reaching orbit and then turning around and reentering.

Bacteria were found on the pieces of Surveyor 3 the astronauts returned, raising questions on whether microbes could somehow survive 2-1/2 years in the vacuum of space, but in the end it was decided that they probably just got contaminated after being brought back to Earth.

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Re: Apollo 12
« Reply #74 on: 10/06/2017 04:21 AM »
APOLLO XII MISSION VOYAGE TO THE OCEAN OF STORMS 59034

PeriscopeFilm
Published on Oct 5, 2017


Made by contractor North American Rockwell, APOLLO XII VOYAGE TO THE OCEAN OF STORMS provides a detailed overview at mission goals. It relies on NASA still and moving images. Apollo 12 was the sixth manned flight in the United States Apollo program and the second to land on the Moon (an H type mission). It was launched on November 14, 1969, from the Kennedy Space Center, Florida, four months after Apollo 11. Mission commander Charles "Pete" Conrad and Lunar Module Pilot Alan L. Bean performed just over one day and seven hours of lunar surface activity while Command Module Pilot Richard F. Gordon remained in lunar orbit. The landing site for the mission was located in the southeastern portion of the Ocean of Storms.

Unlike the first landing on Apollo 11, Conrad and Bean achieved a precise landing at their expected location, the site of the Surveyor 3 unmanned probe, which had landed on April 20, 1967. They carried the first color television camera to the lunar surface on an Apollo flight, but the transmission was lost after Bean accidentally destroyed the camera by pointing it at the Sun. On one of two moonwalks, they visited the Surveyor and removed some parts for return to Earth. The mission ended on November 24 with a successful splashdown.

We encourage viewers to add comments and, especially, to provide additional information about our videos by adding a comment!  See something interesting?  Tell people what it is and what they can see by writing something for example: "01:00:12:00 -- President Roosevelt is seen meeting with Winston Churchill at the Quebec Conference."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1Cdqq1_RmI?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

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