Author Topic: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-181  (Read 79193 times)

Offline Stan Black

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Offline fregate

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #161 on: 01/20/2015 09:33 PM »
Anatoly Zak russianspaceweb.com web site update - new page is dedicated to Energomash RD-191 Liquid Propellant Rocked Engine
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rd191.html
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline Razvan

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #162 on: 01/21/2015 04:25 AM »
New Antares engine, contract signed: http://www.defencetalk.com/russian-firm-seals-1-billion-deal-to-supply-us-rocket-engines-62019/

It's official, thank God, I thought the Congress may have scared few guys buying russian engines but I was wrong.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #163 on: 01/21/2015 07:10 PM »
New Antares engine, contract signed: http://www.defencetalk.com/russian-firm-seals-1-billion-deal-to-supply-us-rocket-engines-62019/

It's official, thank God, I thought the Congress may have scared few guys buying russian engines but I was wrong.

Why is there a contract being signed with Energia? It is NPO Energomash who is producing the engines - or are they owned by Energia?

Offline MP99

Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #164 on: 01/21/2015 08:06 PM »
Looks like this needs a change of thread title to RD-181.

cheers, Martin

Offline Antares

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #165 on: 01/22/2015 09:59 PM »
New Antares engine, contract signed: http://www.defencetalk.com/russian-firm-seals-1-billion-deal-to-supply-us-rocket-engines-62019/

It's official, thank God, I thought the Congress may have scared few guys buying russian engines but I was wrong.
Why is there a contract being signed with Energia? It is NPO Energomash who is producing the engines - or are they owned by Energia?

RSC "Energia" through its subsidiary ZEM RKK "Energy" became the owner of 13.98% of the shares of NGOs "Energomash" - the leading Russian manufacturer of liquid rocket engines (the remaining shares of the company - owned by the state).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fizvestia.ru%2Fnews%2F553886&edit-text=&act=url
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline arachnitect

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #166 on: 01/23/2015 05:55 PM »
Quote from:  Peter B. de Selding @pbdes
Orbital Sciences: 'If/when US alternative available, we'll consider it for Antares. Till then, the RD-181 is the only viable engine option.'

Quote from:  Peter B. de Selding @pbdes
Orbital: Russian estimates of $1B for our RD-181 contract include all options that are way beyond our commitment, & rounds up value too.

I dunno, feels weak. If Orbital really wants to refute the $1B number, I think they're going to have to make the actual price per engine public.

Offline Danderman

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #167 on: 01/23/2015 06:05 PM »
New Antares engine, contract signed: http://www.defencetalk.com/russian-firm-seals-1-billion-deal-to-supply-us-rocket-engines-62019/

It's official, thank God, I thought the Congress may have scared few guys buying russian engines but I was wrong.
Why is there a contract being signed with Energia? It is NPO Energomash who is producing the engines - or are they owned by Energia?

RSC "Energia" through its subsidiary ZEM RKK "Energy" became the owner of 13.98% of the shares of NGOs "Energomash" - the leading Russian manufacturer of liquid rocket engines (the remaining shares of the company - owned by the state).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fizvestia.ru%2Fnews%2F553886&edit-text=&act=url

Bad translation, the contract was signed by EnergoMASH, not Energia:

http://rt.com/news/223383-rd181-antares-rocket-engine/

Offline Antares

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #168 on: 01/23/2015 06:09 PM »
That article doesn't say who signed it.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline rayleighscatter

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #169 on: 01/23/2015 09:33 PM »
I dunno, feels weak. If Orbital really wants to refute the $1B number, I think they're going to have to make the actual price per engine public.
The only people they have to refute it to is customers. And that won't be public.

Offline arachnitect

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #170 on: 01/23/2015 10:20 PM »
I dunno, feels weak. If Orbital really wants to refute the $1B number, I think they're going to have to make the actual price per engine public.
The only people they have to refute it to is customers. And that won't be public.

Earlier someone at Orbital claimed it was nowhere near $1B. When the only source was some article in Russian press I was inclined to believe them. But now it seems like the full contract is worth pretty close to $1B, and Orbital is making sort of weak attempts to minimize it.

Nobody wants to be the company that just "sent a billion dollars to Russia."

I don't think Orbital could have done things any better. I just wish they'd either say "Yeah the engines cost [$16M] each" or if the numbers are so secret they should just say "no comment" and have a better NDA with their supplier in the first place.

Online kevin-rf

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #171 on: 01/23/2015 11:52 PM »
$16 million is nice number when you divide One Billion by 60.

But is it really $16 or is it lower than $16 for each engine. Do other program expenses exist in the contract? Maybe the per unit cost is lower, while there are other engineering costs, support costs, and options for other engineering work and upgrades that bring it to one billion?

Dividing total program costs by the number of units produced is how you end up in a death spiral. Of course that may imply that if they only buy 20 engines the price tag with "overhead" will be well north of $16 million...

Edit: Also, what rubble conversion rate did they use?
« Last Edit: 01/23/2015 11:54 PM by kevin-rf »
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Online docmordrid

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #172 on: 01/27/2015 03:06 PM »
SpaceNews: Orbital says the $1B report is too high

http://spacenews.com/orbital-sciences-expects-rd-181-delivery/

Quote
>
...the value, even when all options are included, is well shy of $1 billion .
« Last Edit: 01/27/2015 03:09 PM by docmordrid »
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Offline arachnitect

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #173 on: 05/28/2015 11:34 AM »
Peter B. de Selding (SpaceNews) reports via twitter:

Quote from: ‏@pbdes
Orbital ATK: 'We have completed full-duration hot-fire certification testing of the new main engine for the Antares rocket.'

So this engine exists.

I really want pictures.

Offline FinalFrontier

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #174 on: 05/28/2015 12:25 PM »
New Antares engine, contract signed: http://www.defencetalk.com/russian-firm-seals-1-billion-deal-to-supply-us-rocket-engines-62019/

It's official, thank God, I thought the Congress may have scared few guys buying russian engines but I was wrong.
Why is there a contract being signed with Energia? It is NPO Energomash who is producing the engines - or are they owned by Energia?

RSC "Energia" through its subsidiary ZEM RKK "Energy" became the owner of 13.98% of the shares of NGOs "Energomash" - the leading Russian manufacturer of liquid rocket engines (the remaining shares of the company - owned by the state).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fizvestia.ru%2Fnews%2F553886&edit-text=&act=url

Bad translation, the contract was signed by EnergoMASH, not Energia:

http://rt.com/news/223383-rd181-antares-rocket-engine/
Wooo  boy. Well I am glad they settled on something but disappointed they went with another Russian motor. Still think they would have been better off going to Blue Origin or a similar concern for a new motor. Would have been more expensive in the short term but something tells me they may live to regret not doing it in the long term.

Oh well. I wonder if they release images/video of the hot firing?
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Offline arachnitect

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #175 on: 05/28/2015 02:09 PM »
New Antares engine, contract signed: http://www.defencetalk.com/russian-firm-seals-1-billion-deal-to-supply-us-rocket-engines-62019/

It's official, thank God, I thought the Congress may have scared few guys buying russian engines but I was wrong.
Why is there a contract being signed with Energia? It is NPO Energomash who is producing the engines - or are they owned by Energia?

RSC "Energia" through its subsidiary ZEM RKK "Energy" became the owner of 13.98% of the shares of NGOs "Energomash" - the leading Russian manufacturer of liquid rocket engines (the remaining shares of the company - owned by the state).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fizvestia.ru%2Fnews%2F553886&edit-text=&act=url

Bad translation, the contract was signed by EnergoMASH, not Energia:

http://rt.com/news/223383-rd181-antares-rocket-engine/
Wooo  boy. Well I am glad they settled on something but disappointed they went with another Russian motor. Still think they would have been better off going to Blue Origin or a similar concern for a new motor. Would have been more expensive in the short term but something tells me they may live to regret not doing it in the long term.

Oh well. I wonder if they release images/video of the hot firing?

Engines start arriving this summer. No other company could do that.

RD-180 or RD-181 was only way to save Antares.

Online russianhalo117

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Re: New Antares Engine - NPO EM RD-193
« Reply #176 on: 05/31/2015 07:21 PM »
Title needs to be changed as RD-193 is an ungimballed LRE intended only for Soyuz 2.1v, whereas gimballing RD-181 is direct export version of RD-191 NOT RD-193 which is intended for Antares and other foreign rockets.
« Last Edit: 05/31/2015 07:24 PM by russianhalo117 »

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