Author Topic: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread  (Read 296082 times)

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: 10/29/2014 01:41 PM »
Did OSC ever announce what there planned new engine for the first stage was going to be? I suspect being mum on the matter might be a good thing, now.

I know enhanced Cygnus is probably pushing the limits of what Delta II could have orbited, but I can't say I didn't wish we still had the production lines for one or best vehicles.
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Offline ugordan

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: 10/29/2014 01:45 PM »
Did OSC ever announce what there planned new engine for the first stage was going to be?

Recent news seems to suggest they settled on RD-180. Either way, integrating that engine would likely take much more time than "simply" returning current Antares to flight status.

Offline xlr82v2

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: 10/29/2014 01:46 PM »
My question is, is 2.1 (or whatever it is) seconds after lightoff enough time for the engines to be fully stabilized and considered "ready to fly"?

For me, I sure would like to see another second or 2 on the pad before the rocket is let go...

Have there been any photos released from the launch site since we're in daylight now?

Offline newpylong

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: 10/29/2014 01:47 PM »
They will pick up the pieces after the investigation and fly again as-is. All this talk of re-engining or  moving to another LV is premature.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: 10/29/2014 01:49 PM »
With ATK they could go all solid...
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Online skater

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: 10/29/2014 01:52 PM »
Does Antares have self-destruction system? Was it activated? From ground or from onboard SW?

Search this thread for "FTS" (flight termination system) to see discussion of this.  My understanding is that the Range Safety Officer initiated the FTS at 20 seconds after launch, which was probably just as the rocket impacted the ground.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: 10/29/2014 01:56 PM »
They will pick up the pieces after the investigation and fly again as-is. All this talk of re-engining or  moving to another LV is premature.

There was already talk of a new first stage. Agreed, nothing is known until the AIB makes its determinations, but after various NK-33 failures, and the age of the equipment, that is not beyond speculation. something went wrong, and will have to be fixed. It's not flying again "as is"
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Offline bad_astra

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: 10/29/2014 01:57 PM »
With ATK they could go all solid...

Depending on pad damage at MARS, that would be a good time to leave, anyway. It would give them an all solid Delta II class launcher. That or launch it on the new Athenas.
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Offline yg1968

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: 10/29/2014 02:05 PM »
With ATK they could go all solid...

They could but proposals for CRS2 are due December 2nd. So they need to decide now. My guess is that they will announce their plans on or around that date. 
« Last Edit: 10/29/2014 02:07 PM by yg1968 »

Offline starsilk

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: 10/29/2014 02:18 PM »
Kuznetsov reports that their engines were working properly......  ::) http://itar-tass.com/kosmos/1539681

difficult to be sure with the Google translation of that page - but I read that article as 'Americans modified the engines, we don't know/trust what they did to them' and 'our NK-33s are much safer'.

Offline woods170

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: 10/29/2014 02:19 PM »


So no, I would not trust Frank Culbertson, or any Orbital employee, to lead the investigation.  They have too much of an internal conflict of interest, despite their best intentions.  I think the board must be led by, and primarily composed of, outsiders.  To do otherwise is to expect too much of human beings.

Nonsense and wrong.  There is more at risk of not finding or hiding the cause than fixing it.   It is OSC's  hardware and they need to fix it, just like any other supplier.  Apple sends out bad code and independent people are not called in to investigate.

No people were hurt and most of the damage was to OSC assets.  This was a service contract.  No USA F or NASA board is required.  Welcome to the commercial world.  NASA can do another review after OSC, but it is OSC to lead the initial investigation
Much like Arianespace does their own investigation when an Ariane flight goes sour. ESA and CNES do reviews afterwards.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: 10/29/2014 02:20 PM »
With ATK they could go all solid...

They could but proposals for CRS2 are due December 2nd. So they need to decide now. My guess is that they will announce their plans on or around that date. 

I wonder if the December 2nd date might be pushed out in light of the failure.

Providing Orbital some time to figure out what went wrong and decide on corrective action so a more balanced competition can occur.
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: 10/29/2014 02:20 PM »
With ATK they could go all solid...

They could but proposals for CRS2 are due December 2nd. So they need to decide now. My guess is that they will announce their plans on or around that date.

Looks like the cat (RD-180) is already out of the bag:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32903.msg1277257#msg1277257


Offline jsmjr

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: 10/29/2014 02:24 PM »
Would it be appropriate to start a new thread about the repair / reconstruction of MARS Launch Pad 0-A?  It's critical to RTF but most of this thread appears to be about investigating the vehicle's failure.

(I know, I know, I'm one of the few commenters here who actually kinda gets off more on the places from which we fly into space than the LVs.  Wish there were forums more specific to that topic.) 


Offline jacqmans

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: 10/29/2014 02:26 PM »
Some launch photos from Matthew Travis... looks like the rocket is already on fire during lift-off...

Offline Star One

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: 10/29/2014 02:27 PM »

Kuznetsov reports that their engines were working properly......  ::) http://itar-tass.com/kosmos/1539681

difficult to be sure with the Google translation of that page - but I read that article as 'Americans modified the engines, we don't know/trust what they did to them' and 'our NK-33s are much safer'.

What is they say they would say that wouldn't they.

Offline mtakala24

Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: 10/29/2014 02:28 PM »
I don't see a fire at liftoff, it just vapor that gets lit up by the light from the engines.

On another note,

Do we have any launch accident investigation reports (previous launches, delta II GPS 1997 etc...) publicly available? To see/compare what we *might* be getting at the end of the investigation.

Offline ugordan

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: 10/29/2014 02:29 PM »
looks like the rocket is already on fire during lift-off...

That's not fire, that's condensed water vapor due to air skimming around the LOX tank. I'm surprised so many people are surprised whenever they see it.

Offline robertross

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Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: 10/29/2014 02:30 PM »
Posting this over from the Cygnus update thread (as it clearly doesn't belong there). WRT future RD-180 use:

Orbital also has however many AJ-26 engines on their floor that they have paid for (albeit some likely have not yet been converted and/or tested). Then there's the associated plumbing and any rocket changes. And finally a part of the workforce that may have to stand down for some time (which always pains me).

That has to enter into the equation as to when they move onto the RD-180.
I'm not saying they won't consider it, but it would be a greater sunk cost to dump the engines at this stage.
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Offline JWag

Re: Antares ORB-3 Failure Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: 10/29/2014 02:32 PM »
Any photos of the pad now that it's daylight again?

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