Author Topic: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)  (Read 15170 times)

Online sanman

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World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« on: 10/26/2014 01:31 AM »



http://worldviewexperience.com/

Founded by Taber McCallum and Jane Poynter of Paragon SDC, World View is planning to offer balloon rides to the edge of space, potentially allowing customers to skydive ("space jump") back to Earth from unprecedentedly high altitudes:

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2014/10/24/world-view-acquires-technology-record-breaking-jump/

What are the prospects for this market?

The technology seems doable, as demonstrated by Alan Eustace thru his space jump, using equipment apparently supplied by Paragon.

If this activity takes off - certainly, skydiving is a popular enough sport - then how could it evolve? What could it lead to? What impact could it have on technologies used in genuine orbital spaceflight?

« Last Edit: 10/26/2014 01:59 AM by sanman »

Offline docmordrid

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #1 on: 10/26/2014 06:00 AM »
The first time I heard of this concept was when Rick Tumlinson and Dr. Jonathan Clark (NASA flight surgeon,  husband of the late Laurel Clark - Columbia) proposed it through Orbital Outfitters in 2007. Written up in Popular Science and elsewhere. It was proposed as both joyride and as a path to a means of bailing out of failing spacecraft during re-entry. Then it popped up in the 2009 Star Trek movie.

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2007-06/high-dive
« Last Edit: 10/26/2014 06:02 AM by docmordrid »
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Offline Helodriver

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #2 on: 10/26/2014 06:27 AM »
Was supposed to show up in the 1994 Star Trek Generations movie, but the scene was cut. Youtube has a rough version of it.


Offline Nomadd

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #3 on: 10/26/2014 12:56 PM »
 Not sure if I'd call 40% of the way to space the "edge". The price seems kind of extreme. I don't think you'll be seeing long lines.

Offline Jim

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #4 on: 10/26/2014 01:09 PM »
Wouldn't even consider this part of "spaceflight" and therefore a topic for this forum.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #5 on: 10/26/2014 02:15 PM »
Commercial suborbital spaceflight is clearly covered by this forum. If this has any potential to become a suborbital  bailout capability, as Orbital Outfitters proposed in 2007, how isn't it a viable subject?
« Last Edit: 10/26/2014 02:18 PM by docmordrid »
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Online ncb1397

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #6 on: 10/26/2014 02:27 PM »
Karman line is an arbitrary distinction. What is the likelihood that the line between the atmosphere and the void(that doesn't really exist) just happens to be exactly 1/100th the distance between the equator and the north pole.

Offline Jim

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #7 on: 10/26/2014 03:10 PM »
Commercial suborbital spaceflight is clearly covered by this forum.

Suborbital by powered vehicles and not balloons.
« Last Edit: 10/26/2014 03:11 PM by Jim »

Offline arachnitect

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #8 on: 10/26/2014 03:39 PM »
We've had a Worldview thread for a while

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33133.0

Offline docmordrid

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #9 on: 10/26/2014 04:17 PM »
Commercial suborbital spaceflight is clearly covered by this forum.

Suborbital by powered vehicles and not balloons.

Paragon SDC's StratEx page expressly states that one of the goals of this program is spacecraft crew egress. Jane Poynter, Pentagon's Chair and CEO, is co-founder of World View.

http://www.paragonsdc.com/stratex/

Quote
>
Such a system has wide-ranging applications for; the study of the science of the stratosphere, development of means for spaceship crew egress, the study of dynamics of bodies at Mach 1, new high altitude aircraft suits, and setting of records for space diving, sailplaning and ballooning.
>
« Last Edit: 10/26/2014 04:24 PM by docmordrid »
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Online sanman

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #10 on: 10/26/2014 04:25 PM »
Even if balloon flight isn't spaceflight, it does have the potential to be used for testing of equipment, and manned balloon flights could perhaps be used to man-rate some technologies by putting them in a near-space environment. When Baumgartner did his space dive, wasn't it mentioned that some of the data being gathered would be used to benefit spacesuit technology? Paragon themselves are specialists in ECLSS, aren't they?

Offline Jim

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #11 on: 10/26/2014 04:30 PM »
Even if balloon flight isn't spaceflight, it does have the potential to be used for testing of equipment, and manned balloon flights could perhaps be used to man-rate some technologies by putting them in a near-space environment.

Nothing that couldn't be done in a vacuum chamber which is cheaper and safer.

Offline Jim

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #12 on: 10/26/2014 04:32 PM »
development of means for spaceship crew egress,

Highly improbable usage.  Much like the shuttle egress, which was more placation vs actual crew safety

Offline docmordrid

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #13 on: 10/26/2014 04:36 PM »
Even if balloon flight isn't spaceflight, it does have the potential to be used for testing of equipment, and manned balloon flights could perhaps be used to man-rate some technologies by putting them in a near-space environment.

Nothing that couldn't be done in a vacuum chamber which is cheaper and safer.

Vacuum chambers aren't the really real world. Even suborbital suit re-entries may have unexpected thermal effects to be tested, regardless if the occupant is wetware or an insteumented test dummy. Sooner or later you have to test like you fly
« Last Edit: 10/26/2014 04:42 PM by docmordrid »
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Offline Jim

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #14 on: 10/26/2014 04:42 PM »

1.  Vacuum chambers aren't the really real world.
Even suborbital suit re-entries may have unexpected thermal effects to be tested, regardless if the occupant is wetware or an insteumented test dummy.
2.  Sooner or later you have to test like you fly®

1.  Neither are balloon flights
2.  and using balloon flights for testing orbital suits is quite the opposite of test like you fly.

Offline Eerie

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #15 on: 10/26/2014 05:14 PM »
Karman line is an arbitrary distinction. What is the likelihood that the line between the atmosphere and the void(that doesn't really exist) just happens to be exactly 1/100th the distance between the equator and the north pole.

Kármán line is not arbitrary. And you could find it out in 15 seconds by checking Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line

Offline docmordrid

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #16 on: 10/26/2014 05:40 PM »

1.  Vacuum chambers aren't the really real world.
Even suborbital suit re-entries may have unexpected thermal effects to be tested, regardless if the occupant is wetware or an insteumented test dummy.
2.  Sooner or later you have to test like you fly®

1.  Neither are balloon flights
2.  and using balloon flights for testing orbital suits is quite the opposite of test like you fly.

Balloons are a lot close to a suborbital dive than a vacuum chamber, and design iteration gets them to their goal. Different strokes.
.
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Online ncb1397

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #17 on: 10/26/2014 06:00 PM »
Karman line is an arbitrary distinction. What is the likelihood that the line between the atmosphere and the void(that doesn't really exist) just happens to be exactly 1/100th the distance between the equator and the north pole.

Kármán line is not arbitrary. And you could find it out in 15 seconds by checking Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line

Karman line is the line where a lifting body vehicle will have to travel faster than orbital velocity to support itself. What are the assumptions present within this calculation? Does the Karman line reflect recent advances in material science like carbon fiber that allows you to build larger lighter wings or potentially future exotic materials like carbon nanotubes. And why this should be used for the defination of outer space is another arbitrary benchmark. We could just as easily use an atmospheric density of 1 particle per cubic micrometer which would be just as arbitrary.

I would suggest that if this doesn't qualify as a space topic, neither does a rover on Mars. Perhaps the cruise phase of the vehicle that delivered the payload but the rover is within a planetary atmosphere.
« Last Edit: 10/26/2014 06:03 PM by ncb1397 »

Offline R7

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #18 on: 10/26/2014 06:10 PM »
Kármán line is not arbitrary. And you could find it out in 15 seconds by checking Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line

And if you read the article it confirms it's arbitrary. The definition neglects centrifugal force and contains wing loading, a value which can and surely has improved since the 1950s due to advances in material sciences.

Oh well, nbc1397 beat me to it.
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Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: World View (balloon rides to the edge of space)
« Reply #19 on: 10/26/2014 06:28 PM »
Can the 'capsule' and ECLSS work in the vacuum of space?

Could it form part of a Moon or Mars vehicle?

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