### Author Topic: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015  (Read 393100 times)

#### StarGeezer

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #340 on: 04/29/2015 12:38 AM »
I haven't seen anything so far indicating how the craft is 'spinning'. From my geometry days we have x axis (front to back) y axis (left right) and z axis(up down). From edkyle's gif it appears rotating around z axis. How hard is it to correct rotation in one, two or all three axes?
Well, you should not read too much into Ed's gif as it's a very simple 2D animation. Based on the video downlinked, it is in a multi-axis spin, so it would require a 3D visualization.

Unless different forces are acting on different parts of an object, it always rotates around a single axis.  The question is just where that axis is.  It might not be close to the x, y, or z axes of the spacecraft.

Not true; in torque-free rigid body motion, the angular velocity vector is not stationary in the body (vehicle) axes.

IANARE - so as I envision the problem we have Chris Wilson's idea that the rotation is about some 'fixed' vector in 3d space or as BowShock explains the vector (of rotation) is not fixed, but wobbles?? Either situation sounds rather precarious. How does one go about correcting this situation, either from ground station and/or using onboard electronics? If onboard why hasn't it 'self'  fixed yet? Can ground correct by eye as perhaps a human pilot would? Do we need some sort of reference (gyro?)

#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #341 on: 04/29/2015 12:44 AM »
So we're coming up on this attempt of communicating with the spacecraft.

About an hour away I believe.
Here is this from my friend on RussianSpaceWeb.com:
An interpretation of info screens transmitted by cameras onboard Progress M-27M right after reaching orbit (top) and during its 3rd orbit (bottom) provides clues about possible failure of the attitude control system and massive consumption of onboard propellant.

« Last Edit: 04/29/2015 12:47 AM by russianhalo117 »

#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #342 on: 04/29/2015 12:50 AM »
30 units of Prop apparently is where computer GNC and flight safeties tripped because flight computer was not operating in deorbit mode.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2015 12:52 AM by russianhalo117 »

#### Bubbinski

##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #343 on: 04/29/2015 12:54 AM »
How many units of prop do they need to make it to the ISS if they can stabilize the craft?

The time for the ground pass is now upon us but I didn't see anything about it on NASA TV, they were talking about new wing designs for planes.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2015 01:01 AM by Bubbinski »
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

#### DaveS

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #344 on: 04/29/2015 12:56 AM »
How many units of prop do they need to make it to the ISS if the can stabilize the craft?

The time for the ground pass is now upon us but I didn't see anything about it on NASA TV, they were talking about new wing designs for planes.
The passes begin at 9:50 pm EDT, some 55 minutes from now. And there will be no live NASA TV coverage. Most likely any updates will be posted on NASA.gov or reported during tomorrow's Space Station Live at 11 am EDT.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2015 12:58 AM by DaveS »
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#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #345 on: 04/29/2015 12:58 AM »
How many units of prop do they need to make it to the ISS if the can stabilize the craft?

The time for the ground pass is now upon us but I didn't see anything about it on NASA TV, they were talking about new wing designs for planes.
The system selected is not ISS refill Prop so they could use that. No clue on what is required to get to ISS.

Edit this link has table of m/s required to get from nominal parking orbit to ISS DC1
« Last Edit: 04/29/2015 01:09 AM by russianhalo117 »

#### Bubbinski

##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #346 on: 04/29/2015 12:59 AM »
Ah 9:50 - I thought it was 8:50 pm EDT.  Thanks for clarifying.
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

#### DaveS

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #347 on: 04/29/2015 01:03 AM »
How many units of prop do they need to make it to the ISS if the can stabilize the craft?

The time for the ground pass is now upon us but I didn't see anything about it on NASA TV, they were talking about new wing designs for planes.
The system selected is not ISS refill Prop so they could use that. No clue on what is required to get to ISS.
Progress M-25M which also used a Soyuz 2-1A had 195.0 units of prop when it showed up at a range of 690 m: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28784.msg1278924#msg1278924
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#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #348 on: 04/29/2015 01:12 AM »
How many units of prop do they need to make it to the ISS if the can stabilize the craft?

The time for the ground pass is now upon us but I didn't see anything about it on NASA TV, they were talking about new wing designs for planes.
The system selected is not ISS refill Prop so they could use that. No clue on what is required to get to ISS.
Progress M-25M which also used a Soyuz 2-1A had 195.0 units of prop when it showed up at a range of 690 m: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28784.msg1278924#msg1278924
I did some research, 250 is common first orbit number on Progress M-M flights.

#### Rocket Science

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #349 on: 04/29/2015 01:28 AM »
That's clearly not the point that was made. If there's a problem with the next Dragon, then Dragon is stood down. That's the problem....not the vehicle failing to arrive, but the vehicle being stuck on the ground for a lengthy period of time before being able to launch again.

Exactly - the crew is fine now, and would be for a good few months even in the event of a Dragon failure, but if Dragon/F9 failed and had to be stood down for a number of months, and Cygnus RTF got delayed (which I suspect it will - since when does anything go to schedule in this business), then that will leave only one HTV to resupply ISS for rest of year. Even with Progress flying, that would make things tight.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that ISS is now zero fault tolerant to another resupply craft failure - with ATV gone, Cygnus' failure last year, today's Progress failure, and only one HTV this year, a Dragon failure would essentially cut ISS' regular supply line to Earth. If they couldn't get it back quickly, that would be the issue.
A case perhaps for Dream Chaser Cargo...?
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#### rickl

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #350 on: 04/29/2015 01:42 AM »
30 units of Prop apparently is where computer GNC and flight safeties tripped because flight computer was not operating in deorbit mode.

Does the "P" number indicate the amount of propellant remaining?
The Space Age is just starting to get interesting.

#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #351 on: 04/29/2015 01:42 AM »
30 units of Prop apparently is where computer GNC and flight safeties tripped because flight computer was not operating in deorbit mode.

Does the "P" number indicate the amount of propellant remaining?
yes in Progress Propulsion Module not ISS Refill Tanks
« Last Edit: 04/29/2015 01:48 AM by russianhalo117 »

#### Graham

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #352 on: 04/29/2015 02:02 AM »
Any word if contact has been established yet?
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#### Chris Bergin

##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #353 on: 04/29/2015 02:09 AM »
Any word if contact has been established yet?

No sir.

Last thing out of NASA was a tweet with the rather untimely...

"NASA ‏@NASA  2h2 hours ago
Everything we do at NASA comes back to Earth."

It's also very early morning in Russia, so our Russian friends won't be up yet.

#### Chris Bergin

##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #354 on: 04/29/2015 02:10 AM »
Ah damn!

Anatoly Zak ‏@RussianSpaceWeb  7m7 minutes ago
Sources: Another attempt to talk to a stranded #ProgressM27M cargo ship bears no fruit tonight.

#### rickl

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #355 on: 04/29/2015 02:14 AM »
I refreshed Anatoly Zak's site, and saw this:

Quote
Events of April 29
Another attempt to communicate with Progress M-27M was apparently made during the mission's 13th orbit, in the early hours Moscow Time, however it was also fruitless.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress-m27m.html
The Space Age is just starting to get interesting.

#### asmi

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #356 on: 04/29/2015 02:15 AM »
Ah damn!

Anatoly Zak ‏@RussianSpaceWeb  7m7 minutes ago
Sources: Another attempt to talk to a stranded #ProgressM27M cargo ship bears no fruit tonight.
Yep - there is a guy on NK forum who apparently works this flight just posted that they've got no good news to report.
He also mentioned that on Progress flight first orbit correction burns are not pre-programmed (as I thought), but are commanded during comm session immediately after s/c sep, and in this case no such commanding happened as they were working on figuring out what is going on with TM system.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2015 02:23 AM by asmi »

#### Prober

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #357 on: 04/29/2015 02:24 AM »
Ah damn!

Anatoly Zak ‏@RussianSpaceWeb  7m7 minutes ago
Sources: Another attempt to talk to a stranded #ProgressM27M cargo ship bears no fruit tonight.

this reminds me of Phobos grunt
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#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #358 on: 04/29/2015 02:26 AM »
Ah damn!

Anatoly Zak ‏@RussianSpaceWeb  7m7 minutes ago
Sources: Another attempt to talk to a stranded #ProgressM27M cargo ship bears no fruit tonight.

this reminds me of Phobos grunt
noy related, but Yes

#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: MISSION FAILURE: Progress M-27M launch – Soyuz-2-1A - April 28, 2015
« Reply #359 on: 04/29/2015 02:29 AM »
well off to sleep have to work mid day/night split shift.

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