Author Topic: Modelling Mars  (Read 123041 times)

Offline mike robel

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #180 on: 02/15/2015 03:48 AM »
Massive edit on page 8 of Skylab changes and Post Launch Events.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #181 on: 02/15/2015 05:27 AM »


But Ron, have you thought of sending photos of your work to Baxter?

I did it yesterday, in fact.  And a link to this thread.

Cool ! But where did you find Mr baxter e-mail, btw ?

Online mikes

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #182 on: 02/15/2015 09:26 AM »
I have found a reference to something called "Slush Hydrogen" as a propellant in an S-IVB stage variant, the S-IVC.  Most this study is beyond me, but it may be a solution to the boil off of fuel during the mission.

Slush Hydrogen was also considered for the National Aerospace Plane

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19900004952.pdf

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #183 on: 02/15/2015 12:09 PM »
As I was planning some more Saturn variant construction, it occurred to me the Wet Skylab would only have had a docking adapter on the front and no ATM, so it would have looked more like Apollo 5 then Skylab.  And also no Heat Sink, at least in the was of Skylab.

I have my MS-II launch vehicle somewhat pieced together, but using an Airfix Saturn V kit.  The Airfix S-II will be the MS-II with its more detailed insulation modeling setting it apart from the Revell S-II which will be the 2nd Stage.  I will be making a new Shapeways nose for the Airfix kit as the S-IVB Adapter is integral to the part.  Unlike my Ares stack, it will use Shuttle SRBs instead of Titan IIIM SRMs.

Then, as I discussed above, I will model the Wet Skylab Launch vehicle like Apollo 5 and sacrifice another S-IV to be the orbital Skylab.

Edit:  But Wait!  Attached a picture of a conceptual Wet Workshop which shows an ATM.  I still don't think a IB could have lifted this though...

EDIT:  But wait!  This looks is a different design, so for fun we can add another Saturn IB launch placing this in orbit, also carrying the secret Military stuff for Mattingly's mission.  So the new sequence could be Skylab 1, Wet Workshop Launch, Skylab 2, Conrad and crew, Skylab 3, ATP, Skylab 4; Mattingly, and move the others back accordingly.

What say you Ron?


You need a shot with the Ares Core, less the Mission Module, MEM, and Apollo stack loitering near it, possibly with one ET in place and the other nearby, and an Apollo CSM watching over the operation.

The LM-1 patch could be inspiration for the Unmanned MEM mission.

I think the ATM would be on a separate launch.  I will add an Apollo 5-type Saturn 1B into the chart.  I do want to do some construction shots and tanking shots, which is why I need to build a tanker S-II stage.

I was looking for some items on the flights in the book last night, and remembered that the CSM on the MEM test flight was named New Jersey.  Also, they called this flight with the Iowa and New Jersey the D' mission, not the E'.  It replaced York's cancelled D cold soak mission.  Young's landing test was the E mission.

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #184 on: 02/15/2015 12:10 PM »


But Ron, have you thought of sending photos of your work to Baxter?

I did it yesterday, in fact.  And a link to this thread.

Cool ! But where did you find Mr baxter e-mail, btw ?

He has a website with contact info: www.stephen-baxter.com
« Last Edit: 02/15/2015 12:10 PM by Ronpur50 »

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #185 on: 02/15/2015 12:19 PM »

28 JUL 1973   Skylab 3        37      Military Skylab.  Ken Mattingly and 2 other Military astronauts.


I was thinking who these other two astronauts might be.  I was thinking they could be two former MOL Astronauts, and since Crippen is mentioned, one could have been him.  And Crip worked on Skylab support.  So maybe Truly for the other one? He was Skylab capcom.  And Crip and Truly were teamed for a MOL mission.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2015 12:25 PM by Ronpur50 »

Offline mike robel

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #186 on: 02/15/2015 01:43 PM »
Ron

Changed E' to D'

Changed Crippen's crew:  I like it.

I also gave Young his Apollo 15 crew for the MEM Trial.

I have tried to covert the timeline on page 8 into a table, but gave up.  I attached the new file here and there as well,  If someone wants to have a go at it, I'd appreciate it.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2015 02:44 PM by mike robel »

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #187 on: 02/15/2015 03:15 PM »
Ron

Changed E' to D'

Changed Crippen's crew:  I like it.

I also gave Young his Apollo 15 crew for the MEM Trial.

I have tried to covert the timeline on page 8 into a table, but gave up.  I attached the new file here and there as well,  If someone wants to have a go at it, I'd appreciate it.

That would be an interesting crew, since Young flew Apollos 10 and 16...  ;)
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline mike robel

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #188 on: 02/15/2015 07:30 PM »
I'm thinking about the commander for the cancelled D mission, and came up with Cernan, so Cernan, Gershon, York?

And the cycling in unflown Apollo crews into Moonlabs 2-4

Moonlab 2:  Shepard, Roosa, Mitchell
Moonlab 3:  Cernan, Evans, Schmidt
Moonlab 4:  Schweikert, Musgrave, Carr

Edit:  Changed "Gordon" to "Schweikart" "Brand" to "Musgrave"  "Brandt" to "McCandless".  This was the Backup Skylab 2 Crew

Then, if we really wanted to be ambitious, we could start cycling Shuttle crews into the regular Skylab Missions...
« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 02:15 AM by mike robel »

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #189 on: 02/16/2015 12:36 AM »
I doubt if they would have had those astronaut groups hired.  There weren't enough flights.  Don't forget the "Voyage" astronauts like Bleeker, who apparently had several Skylab missions.  But I really like the idea that these guys did get to the moon in this timeline.
« Last Edit: 02/16/2015 12:37 AM by Ronpur50 »

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #190 on: 02/16/2015 01:08 AM »
I need a higher resolution of the original photo, but here is Pad A, B and C.  D would be out of frame to the left.

Offline mike robel

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #191 on: 02/16/2015 02:48 AM »
Way Cool Ron!

I'm starting to paint my MEM which has the shrouds and Retropack on it.

Sadly, the retropack doesn't detach, but the shrouds do.

So I am planning photo's of the MEM before descent

Then I will put the shrouds on the one with the landing gear down, but I will have the shrouds still on.

Perhaps you will be able to figure out a way to work your photo magic on them after I upload.  We can talk it about after I do so.  (It will be a little while).

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #192 on: 02/16/2015 03:07 AM »
I am happy to donate images of my beat up post landing MEM for photo magic too, if desired.
« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 12:58 AM by Dalhousie »
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #193 on: 02/17/2015 12:03 AM »
Sure, guys, take some photos and send them to me!

I started working on a S-II Tanker.  It is kit bashed from a Revell S-II stage.  I put the S-1C tank top on the bottom, with the descent stage of a LEM on the bottom for propulsion.  On the top, I used the S-II stage handler part and inverted a Apollo SM onto it.  This docks with the previous build Ares MS-II refuel port.  And it fits perfectly.  Mike's nosecone will go on top of the tanker when it is placed on the Saturn VB for launch.

Offline mike robel

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #194 on: 02/17/2015 12:46 AM »
Very Cool

Offline mike robel

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #195 on: 02/17/2015 02:19 AM »
Slight up date of the timeline, putting the Backup Skylab 2 Crew (Schweickart, Musgrave, McCandless) into Moonlab 4.  Also see up thread.

Edit:  Interesting enough, the back up crew for both Skylab 3 and 4 was Brand, Lenoir, Lind who we have flying Skylab 7.

Modeling the timeline and assignments is almost as much fun as building the models.  I wonder what Stephan Baxter would think of our work.  Any response Ron?

« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 02:23 AM by mike robel »

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #196 on: 02/17/2015 12:26 PM »
No response yet.  I had another idea for a project, coming up with a ship design and logo for Star Trek:Explorer!

Which is what replaced Next Generation in this timeline.
« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 12:27 PM by Ronpur50 »

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #197 on: 02/17/2015 01:01 PM »
I don't know how we missed this, but on page 41, where York is looking at the Ares boosters in orbit, it states that the 9 Saturn VB launches took place over a five year period, and half were unmanned.  That means 4 or 5 construction crews went up with the boosters and ETs.  But 5 years?  Apollo N was in Dec 1980, launch in Mar1985, so there is no way this is right. Maybe 5 months.
« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 01:05 PM by Ronpur50 »

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #198 on: 02/17/2015 01:44 PM »
So, I have updated the Ares Launch Fact Sheet to make the first 4 assembly flights have crews.  The tankers stay unmanned.

Still no way this happened over 5 years.  The decision to go with Dana's plan wasn't even that old.

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Modelling Mars
« Reply #199 on: 02/18/2015 09:04 PM »
I am happy to donate images of my beat up post landing MEM for photo magic too, if desired.

Well, this is a second attempt at putting your MEM on Mars.  Still trying to get a handle on the shadows, but this is looking better.

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