Author Topic: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - Sept. 29 - LAUNCH UPDATES  (Read 230937 times)

Offline Orbiter

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Exactly my point. I am sure the answer is known and has been told to the required parties. There is no reason to inform us. We most likely will be kept in the dark.

It does not affect me (as a non US citizen), but considering that so many millions of tax dollars went to Space-X, I would be disappointed if all the return I get is some video with drop outs and some text messages with 140 characters length. But of course, ymmv.


Zoe

Huh? This was an entirely commercial flight. The only millions of US tax dollars being sent to SpaceX are NASA contract awards for CRS and the various other Dragon related contracts.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2013 03:18 PM by Orbiter »
Attended space missions: STS-114, STS-124, STS-128, STS-135, Atlas V "Curiosity", Delta IV Heavy NROL-15, Atlas V MUOS-2, Delta IV Heavy NROL-37, SpaceX CRS-9, SpaceX JCSAT-16, Atlas V GOES-R, SpaceX SES-11.

Offline AnjaZoe

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I must have overlooked that apparently no single NASA dollar went into the development of the launcher or the infrastructure. My bad.

Zoe
The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary

Offline eriblo

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Quote
Why have there been no details posted, especially video, related to the 1st stage reentry, not-as-hard-as-usual ocean intersection, and parts recovery. 
L2 has some!

Where? Link? I never saw any video.

I interpreted that as "L2 has some details", not actual video...
(I don't think the existence any such video would have escaped any L2 members or even most regular members ;))
« Last Edit: 10/15/2013 03:22 PM by eriblo »

Offline StephenB

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I must have overlooked that apparently no single NASA dollar went into the development of the launcher or the infrastructure. My bad.

Zoe

NASA got what they paid for. I don't see how that obliges SpaceX to reveal extensive details about a commercial mission.

I'm wondering if Arianspace would do any differently?

Offline mwfair

Quote
Here's some info from an in-the-know site with some details
Of course you are correct, that our favorite site's intrepid reporters wrote up those details in the post-launch article.  I was hoping there had been additional details released, either about more components recovered, or more details about the engine bay and tanks.   
I think the most interesting follow on stories are, a) what exactly did the impact look like (i.e. was the 1st stage intact when it hit? What was the impact velocity? What was the trajectory for the last 10km?  Was it tumbling?)  b) what is the plan of investigation, i.e. what can be learned from examining the recovered pieces or assemblies.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2013 03:30 PM by mwfair »
Mike Fair

Offline AnjaZoe

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I must have overlooked that apparently no single NASA dollar went into the development of the launcher or the infrastructure. My bad.

Zoe

NASA got what they paid for. I don't see how that obliges SpaceX to reveal extensive details about a commercial mission.

I'm wondering if Arianspace would do any differently?

They publish some telemetry data during the launch, don't blank out a video if something goes wrong (most interesting of course the V501) and in most cases don't promise things they won't keep.

But you don't have to look across the ocean to compare. Just take a look at Orbital.

Although I fail to see what benefit there is in bringing in ArianeSpace into a Space-X discussion.

As I said, your mileage may vary and apparently does. I would be miffed if kept on such a short leash after those big promises, but as a stoopid furrin alien, I know I have to be happy to be kept stoopid and uninformed  ;)

Zoe
The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary

Offline dcporter

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I must have overlooked that apparently no single NASA dollar went into the development of the launcher or the infrastructure. My bad.

Zoe

Are you suggesting that if any government money at all goes into a business, that business is now bound to open all aspects of their business up to any curious taxpayer? Nice thought but not terribly business-friendly!

I'm not sure what your followup post about being a stoopid furriner has to do with anything.

Offline robertross

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careful guys, we're straying past this being an updates thread.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Online MP99

I must have overlooked that apparently no single NASA dollar went into the development of the launcher or the infrastructure. My bad.

NASA got what they paid for. I don't see how that obliges SpaceX to reveal extensive details about a commercial mission.

I suspect NASA will get the updates all their future customers will get - enough to convince them their payload will be in good hands.

Not sure if they get some additional info as part of NLS II certification?

cheers, Martin

Offline SIM city

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I must have overlooked that apparently no single NASA dollar went into the development of the launcher or the infrastructure. My bad.

NASA got what they paid for. I don't see how that obliges SpaceX to reveal extensive details about a commercial mission.

I suspect NASA will get the updates all their future customers will get - enough to convince them their payload will be in good hands.

Not sure if they get some additional info as part of NLS II certification?

cheers, Martin
Actually this goes back to CRS recertification, doesn't it?  This was one of the qualification flights for the new/upgraded vehicle that they want to use for future CRS missions.  I would think NASA will get all of the flight data.

Offline Danderman

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IF it was insulation coming off, how come pieces 39277 and 39278 have a semi-major axis that is 50-55 km larger than the F9 upper stage? Where did the energy come from?

This is a super question that may never be answered.

Occam's Razor tells us that these pieces have something to do with the second stage engine not restarting, since there were two distinct unusual events occurring on the same day, the 2nd stage restart failure and lots of debris scattered all over the sky.  Occam's Razor is not infallible, but it's a good start.



Online Comga

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Updates only please!  (What Robert said)
Please take discussion of orbits and data releases, and what people want and assume, to the discussion threads.
We don't want to have to call the Off-topic Sherrif!
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline watermod

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As no firm has ever brought back a first stage in an attempted landing before.  It would be time to consider  patents and all the ramifications of the same.   In the USA you can talk and publish about patents not yet granted.   In most of the rest of the world you can not.
Return video of a landing would contain many patent-able elements and possibly be viewed as publishing methods before a patent was granted let alone applied for.  In the USA this is not a problem but the rest of the world it is.

No patent lawyer worth the title would approve of publishing that video at this time.
Everything needs to be locked down with many successful landings and granted patents before it could be published ... unless hell froze over the rest of the world changed their patent laws.

Offline rickl

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SpaceX has uploaded video highlights of the launch, including some external views I haven't seen before.


(I hope this qualifies for the update thread.  I think it does.  If not, feel free to move it.)






Nominal now means "Yeehah!!"

Offline Lars_J

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Cool! :D

First view of the 1st stage relight! And a nice uninterrupted view of stage separation.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2013 11:31 PM by Lars_J »

Offline Jim

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As no firm has ever brought back a first stage in an attempted landing before.  It would be time to consider  patents and all the ramifications of the same.   In the USA you can talk and publish about patents not yet granted.   In most of the rest of the world you can not.
Return video of a landing would contain many patent-able elements and possibly be viewed as publishing methods before a patent was granted let alone applied for.  In the USA this is not a problem but the rest of the world it is.

No patent lawyer worth the title would approve of publishing that video at this time.
Everything needs to be locked down with many successful landings and granted patents before it could be published ... unless hell froze over the rest of the world changed their patent laws.


nonsense.  Musk said they would not apply for patents because the patent process releases more information on the subject

Offline Targeteer

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S1 re-entry photos from a mission overview off the SpaceX website

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32859.510
« Last Edit: 10/16/2013 02:38 AM by Targeteer »
Best quote heard during an inspection, "I was unaware that I was the only one who was aware."

Offline Nydoc

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No one has posted this yet so here it is from http://www.spacex.com/news/2013/10/14/upgraded-falcon-9-mission-overview

Quote
On Sunday, Sept. 29th, SpaceX successfully completed the demonstration mission of its upgraded Falcon 9 rocket, delivering the CASSIOPE, CUSat, DANDE and POPACS satellites to their targeted orbits. All of the satellite owners are in contact with their spacecraft and are reporting nominal operations.

This was the first Falcon 9 launch using SpaceXís new 17 foot diameter fairing, designed and built in house by SpaceX.  The fairing separates using pneumatic pushers instead of explosives and is large enough to fit a city bus.  This was also the first launch from SpaceXís newly refurbished launch pad at Vandenberg Air Force Base, and the first demonstration of a number of technologies on the upgraded vehicle.

On this mission, Falcon 9 lifted off with nine Merlin 1D engines, generating 1.3 million pounds of  thrust at liftoff and increasing to 1.5 million pounds of thrust as it approached the vacuum of spaceónearly twice the thrust than when previously powered by  the Merlin 1C.  The engines were configured in a more robust engine support structure called the Octaweb, which is easier to manufacture and improves the vehicles reliability.  To fuel the more powerful engines, SpaceX extended the propellant tanks by approximately 60%.   The upgraded vehicle featured a triple-redundant avionics system similar to that used on Dragon, providing a single-fault tolerant architecture.  A new stage separation system reduced the number of connection points from 12 to 3, and the vehicle also flew with a stronger heat shield that allows the rocket to reenter Earthís atmosphere and eventually land propulsively.

The flight proceeded according to plan, with a nominal first-stage flight and shutdown 2 minutes and 41 seconds after launch.  Stage separation occurred at 2 minutes and 45 seconds, with MVac ignition following 7 seconds later. SpaceX's new fairing separated at approximately 3 minutes 32 seconds into launch. Nine minutes and 2 seconds into flight, the upper stage engine shut down.  Approximately 14 minutes into flight, CASSIOPE was deployed directly at its target orbit of 325x1500km, 81 deg inclination. Each system performed as expected and all payloads were delivered to their intended destinations.

View from the onboard rocket cam looking down the first stage.

First stage separates 2 minutes and 45 seconds into the flight, prepares to reenter the Earth's atmosphere

Merlin Vacuum engine on the second stage ignites 7 seconds after stage separation

SpaceX's new fairing separates approximately 3 minutes and 32 seconds into launch, preparing for payload deployment

Nine minutes and 2 seconds into flight, the upper stage engine shuts down in preparation for payload deployment

Following separation of the last payload, SpaceX attempted an internal milestone of relighting the second stage.  Conditions appeared satisfactory for relight of the upper stage engine as the stage flew over Antarctica.  The engine initiated ignition, with pressure rising in the thrust chamber to about 400 psi, but the flight computer sensed conditions did not meet criteria and it aborted the ignition. SpaceX believes it understands the issue which didnít involve anything fundamental, rather a need to iron out some of the differences between operating the engine on the ground versus in a vacuum.  SpaceX has actually relit the Merlin engine in ground testing a dozen times in some cases and SpaceX is confident it can make the necessary adjustments before the next flight.

Despite reports to the contrary, the Falcon 9 second stage remained intact and healthy following spacecraft separation.  It takes a few days to get the data from the Air Force Satellite Control Network into the SpaceX data system for review, but the data confirms the stage passed over Hawaii from approximately 1748 to 1754 Universal Time (10:48-10:54 PDT), roughly 1 hr 48 minutes after launch, starting into our second orbit. SpaceX still had power on the second stage, and the transmitters were left on to drain the batteries (standard procedure).

Though not a primary mission objective, SpaceX was also able to initiate two engine relights on the first stage.  For the first restart burn, we lit three engines to do a supersonic retro propulsion, which we believe may be the first attempt by any rocket stage.  The first restart burn was completed well and enabled the stage to survive reentering  the atmosphere in a controlled fashion.

SpaceX then lit the center engine for a single engine burn.  That relight also went well, however we exceeded the roll control authority of the attitude control thrusters. This particular stage was not equipped with landing gear which could have helped stabilize the stage like fins would on an aircraft.  The stage ended up spinning to a degree that was greater than we could control with the gas thrusters on board and ultimately we hit the water relatively hard.   
However, SpaceX recovered portions of the stage and now, along with the Grasshopper tests, we believe we have all the pieces to achieve a full recovery of the boost stage.

This launch also marked the first of three certification flights needed to certify Falcon 9 to fly missions for the U.S. Air Force under the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program. When Falcon 9 is certified, SpaceX will be eligible to compete for all National Security Space (NSS) missions.

The next few months remain busy for SpaceX and the upgraded Falcon 9.  We are currently preparing to launch our first geosynchronous transfer orbit mission out of Cape Canaveral with SES-8 followed by Thaicom and our next trip to the space station in the early part of next year.

Offline billh

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This images of the relight from the mission overview posted above are particularly interesting:

http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/10_burn_usaf8661-1280.jpg
http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/11_c439042b-ee14-45c7-aa50-6f0f6396b0db.png


(ATTACH IMAGES GUYS!! Chris).

[Edit] Sorry!
« Last Edit: 10/16/2013 02:38 PM by billh »

Online guckyfan

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The first image shows 3 engines burning so it must be the first relight.

At least it looks like 3 engines to me.


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