Author Topic: LIVE: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - November 24, 2015 (06:50 UTC)  (Read 39626 times)

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Probably the most shocking launch contract signed this year - after almost 40 years since their first GTO launch, the Japanese has scored their first geostationary comsat launch contract ever. And surprisingly it's from Telesat of Canada, which booked an H-IIA rocket to launch its recently ordered Telstar 12V satellite in 2015: http://www.mhi.co.jp/en/news/story/1309261717.html
« Last Edit: 11/24/2015 08:17 AM by input~2 »
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline William Graham

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #1 on: 09/26/2013 09:00 AM »
I'm not sure whether the Broadcasting Satellite 2A and 2B spacecraft launched in the 1980s were commercial or government-operated payloads. If they were not commercial, I believe this will be Japan's first commercial launch - while they have launched a few commercial payloads in the past, they have all been as secondary payloads.


Online Pipcard

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #2 on: 09/26/2013 02:22 PM »
Congratulations to Japan!

Japan got a chance to launch commercial geostationary comsats in 1996, with a contract to launch 10 satellites for Hughes.

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-27/business/fi-3344_1_satellite-launch

But in 2000, the deal was cancelled before any satellites could be launched, due to the failures of the H-II launch vehicle.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2000/05/26/national/hughes-cancels-nasda-rocket-deal/#.UkRCUYaUQvw
« Last Edit: 09/27/2013 01:46 PM by Pipcard »

Offline baldusi

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #3 on: 09/26/2013 11:42 PM »
First Atlas V now H-IIA, I do wonder if the Proton and Sea Launch failures haven't actually saturated the market and that has given these two systems a chance.

Offline Fuji

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #4 on: 09/28/2013 01:17 AM »
I'm not sure whether the Broadcasting Satellite 2A and 2B spacecraft launched in the 1980s were commercial or government-operated payloads. If they were not commercial, I believe this will be Japan's first commercial launch - while they have launched a few commercial payloads in the past, they have all been as secondary payloads.



BS-2A, 2B and also BS-3 are mostly government-funded satellite.
« Last Edit: 09/28/2013 01:19 AM by Fuji »

Offline Star One

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #5 on: 09/28/2013 10:19 AM »

First Atlas V now H-IIA, I do wonder if the Proton and Sea Launch failures haven't actually saturated the market and that has given these two systems a chance.

Well it's a not un-logical move in the circumstances & congratulations to Japan on winning this contract.

Offline baldusi

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #6 on: 09/28/2013 12:29 PM »

First Atlas V now H-IIA, I do wonder if the Proton and Sea Launch failures haven't actually saturated the market and that has given these two systems a chance.

Well it's a not un-logical move in the circumstances & congratulations to Japan on winning this contract.
What I find interesting is the "flight to quality" of these two wins. Apparently the ariane 5 Vs Proton-M/Sea Launch equilibrium is very fragile. It would seem that the Russians were working at the very limit of tolerable reliability, and the've step out lately. That's the interesting trend I see. That, or a heavier premium on risk on the financial market.

Offline Star One

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #7 on: 09/28/2013 05:44 PM »


First Atlas V now H-IIA, I do wonder if the Proton and Sea Launch failures haven't actually saturated the market and that has given these two systems a chance.

Well it's a not un-logical move in the circumstances & congratulations to Japan on winning this contract.
What I find interesting is the "flight to quality" of these two wins. Apparently the ariane 5 Vs Proton-M/Sea Launch equilibrium is very fragile. It would seem that the Russians were working at the very limit of tolerable reliability, and the've step out lately. That's the interesting trend I see. That, or a heavier premium on risk on the financial market.

Is what has happened recently a fatal blow to Proton or Sea Launch in the commercial launch market I wonder?

Offline simonbp

Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #8 on: 09/29/2013 02:48 PM »
That's tricky to tell. Protons have been failing since day one, and a non-hypergol replacement has been talked about since at least 1970, but it keeps chugging along. It will probably take the Kazahs kicking the Russians out to finally kill military Proton. Commercial Proton might go sooner. Sea Launch has been near-death since the earlier accident that caused Boeing to mostly pull out of the project. It's been kept alive by Russian money, but both the technical failure earlier this year and the marketing failure to sell launches before that are taking their toll.

H-IIA deserves this, though. It's a nice rocket with a good record (1 failure in 22 launches).

Offline fatjohn1408

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #9 on: 10/03/2013 03:30 PM »
Is it going to launch on the HIIA202?

The launch vehicle is cited to be undergoing performance upgrades of the second stage, but the payload 4.9 tons is well within bounds of the HIIA204 which has launched the 5.8t Kiku8 in 2006.

Or is this upper stage just a development that is happening and is not really a necessity to conduct this launch. It would imply a significant improvement of the HIIa202 if it could be launched on that one.

And I agree that this is partially a result of the Yen drop.

Offline tul

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #10 on: 10/03/2013 09:59 PM »
Is it going to launch on the HIIA202?

The launch vehicle is cited to be undergoing performance upgrades of the second stage, but the payload 4.9 tons is well within bounds of the HIIA204 which has launched the 5.8t Kiku8 in 2006.

Or is this upper stage just a development that is happening and is not really a necessity to conduct this launch. It would imply a significant improvement of the HIIa202 if it could be launched on that one.

And I agree that this is partially a result of the Yen drop.

This article explains it: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_10_15_2012_p28-504957.xml&p=2

Offline D_Dom

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #11 on: 10/03/2013 10:47 PM »
It's a nice rocket with a good record (1 failure in 22 launches).
An excellent record indeed, approaching Delta II reliability levels. I wonder how much of the performance upgrades will become standard launch configuration. It is good to have such a wide range of competitive launch vehicles.
Space is not merely a matter of life or death, it is considerably more important than that!

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #12 on: 10/04/2013 08:27 AM »

It's a nice rocket with a good record (1 failure in 22 launches).
An excellent record indeed, approaching Delta II reliability levels. I wonder how much of the performance upgrades will become standard launch configuration. It is good to have such a wide range of competitive launch vehicles.

I wonder what its chances of winning other commercial launch contracts are?

Offline SIM city

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #13 on: 10/08/2013 04:58 PM »
Is it going to launch on the HIIA202?

The launch vehicle is cited to be undergoing performance upgrades of the second stage, but the payload 4.9 tons is well within bounds of the HIIA204 which has launched the 5.8t Kiku8 in 2006.

Or is this upper stage just a development that is happening and is not really a necessity to conduct this launch. It would imply a significant improvement of the HIIa202 if it could be launched on that one.

And I agree that this is partially a result of the Yen drop.

This article explains it: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_10_15_2012_p28-504957.xml&p=2

Is there any more info on the new/improved cryo second stage referenced here?
« Last Edit: 10/08/2013 05:01 PM by SIM city »

Offline Fuji

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #14 on: 10/09/2013 01:21 PM »
Is there any more info on the new/improved cryo second stage referenced here?


Official information is here. (Japanese document)
http://www.mext.go.jp/b_menu/shingi/uchuu/017/gijiroku/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2012/01/30/1314245_1.pdf

Current H-IIA is lack of 300m/sec delta V for GTO insertion in comparison to the ariane 5.
Therefore, add the 3rd burn at apogee (Long coast GTO insertion). It was tested by H-IIA F-21 (GCOM-W1 launch) last year. You can see the 2nd stage LH2 tank color was changed from orange to white paint to prevent the loss oh the LH2 for vaporized (Note: This test was no 3rd burn, thermal environment data gathering only).

Another modification is introduced for low shock spacecraft separation mechanism.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2013 01:25 PM by Fuji »

Offline fatjohn1408

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #15 on: 10/15/2013 11:18 AM »
Is it going to launch on the HIIA202?

The launch vehicle is cited to be undergoing performance upgrades of the second stage, but the payload 4.9 tons is well within bounds of the HIIA204 which has launched the 5.8t Kiku8 in 2006.

Or is this upper stage just a development that is happening and is not really a necessity to conduct this launch. It would imply a significant improvement of the HIIa202 if it could be launched on that one.

And I agree that this is partially a result of the Yen drop.

This article explains it: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_10_15_2012_p28-504957.xml&p=2

Hmm it also mentions a capability of 2.9t. This corresponds with the pdf given in the post above for the HII-A 202. 204 could do ~4.5t. Is this GTO or GEO? Because as I said, Kiku8 was 5.8t and Telstar 12V is 4.9t.

Offline SIM city

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #16 on: 10/16/2013 05:09 PM »
Is it going to launch on the HIIA202?

The launch vehicle is cited to be undergoing performance upgrades of the second stage, but the payload 4.9 tons is well within bounds of the HIIA204 which has launched the 5.8t Kiku8 in 2006.

Or is this upper stage just a development that is happening and is not really a necessity to conduct this launch. It would imply a significant improvement of the HIIa202 if it could be launched on that one.

And I agree that this is partially a result of the Yen drop.

This article explains it: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_10_15_2012_p28-504957.xml&p=2

Hmm it also mentions a capability of 2.9t. This corresponds with the pdf given in the post above for the HII-A 202. 204 could do ~4.5t. Is this GTO or GEO? Because as I said, Kiku8 was 5.8t and Telstar 12V is 4.9t.

Both sets of capabilities are to GTO, but different references.  The 2.9 and 4.6 numbers are for a residual delta v of 1500 m/s, which is the more standard GTO reference for the other vehicles in the market.  Telesat bought an H2A 204.

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Offline jcm

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Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 2015
« Reply #18 on: 08/15/2015 02:40 PM »
Anything here of interest?
http://www.mext.go.jp/b_menu/shingi/gijyutu/gijyutu2/060/shiryo/1359727.htm

Thanks - the first doc has timings for the launch, the HTV5 doc has details of late cargo bag changes (nothing super interesting), the 7th doc has stuff on the payload - mainly a nice pic and a statement that payload mass is 4900 kg approx
and there are 52 Ku transponders. Most docs are about safety plans.

T+1:56 SRB burnout, 68 km altitude
T+2:07 SRB 1-2 sep, 79 km     
T+2:10 SRB 3-4 sep, 83 km     
T+3:25 Fairing sep, 150 km     
T+6:40 MECO, 242 km, 6.1 km/s     
T+6:48 Stage 1 sep, 245 km, 6.1 km/s     
T+6:54 SEIG-1, 247 km, 6.1 km/s     
T+11:07 SECO-1 262 km, 7.7 km/s
T+22:46 SEIG-2, 189 km, 7.8 km/s     
T+26:37 SECO-2 197 km 10.2 km/s                       
T+4:22:45 SEIG-3 33720 km, 1.8 km/s     
T+4:23:31 SECO-3 33754 km, 2.1 km/s
T+4:26:56 Sep 33902 km, 2.1 km/s         
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Re: H-IIA 204 - Telstar 12V - 4Q 2015
« Reply #19 on: 08/30/2015 12:18 PM »
Here's the H-IIA rocket to be used for this launch (s/n F29) seen at MHI's plant 2 days ago. Notice the second stage has again been painted white to reduce LH2 boil-off during the 4+ hours coasting required for this launch.

This is the 2nd H-IIA to use the 204 configuration and the first one to use a 4 meter diameter fairing (4S type). It will be very much of a hot-rod when it flies.  ;)

The rocket is scheduled to be shipped on September 8 with arrival at TNSC on September 10. The launch date has yet to be established but I have seen rumors of somewhere around mid-November.

Photos by Koumei Shibata.
« Last Edit: 08/30/2015 12:18 PM by Galactic Penguin SST »
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

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