Author Topic: Kuaizhou, Kuaizhou-1 launch, Jiuquan - September 25, 2013 (04:37 UTC)  (Read 50379 times)


Offline chewi

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Re: Kuaizhou-1 Jiuquan launch - September 25, 2013 (04:37 UTC)
« Reply #21 on: 09/25/2013 09:24 AM »
China launches satellite to monitor natural disaster
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-09/25/c_132749677.htm

Quote
JIUQUAN, Sept. 25 (Xinhua) -- A satellite for natural disaster monitoring was successfully launched into orbit at 12:37 p.m. Wednesday, China's Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center has announced.

The satellite Kuaizhou I, or speedy vessel I, will be used to monitor natural disasters and provide disaster-relief information for its user, the National Remote Sensing Center of China, a public institution under the Ministry of Science and Technology.

The satellite was carried by a small launch vehicle bearing the same name as the vessel Kuaizhou.

Offline R7

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A Chinese Epsilon? Neat.
AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Offline beidou

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Its capability is way more behind that of Epsilon.

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Object found! 2013-053A/39262 is in a 276*293 km * 96.65 deg. orbit.
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Offline heinkel174

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Its capability is way more behind that of Epsilon.

It's likely a much smaller rocket, closer to Minotaur I, maybe even smaller, as the other solid booster in development (CZ-11) is believed to be a Minuteman/DF-31 sized rocket and I don't think they'll develop two rockets with overlapping capacity.

The capacity of M-V and Epsilon was dictated by the requirement of ISAS (now the ISAS faction of JAXA) to launch scientific satellites on its institutional launcher, some of them requires high velocity to escape. I don't think China needs an equivalent of Epsilon as they have plenty of launch options and piggyback opportunities for small payloads.

If anything CZ-6 is closer to that despite being liquid. It is designed for short lead time and simplified launch campaign. Russian experience shows this is achievable on a liquid booster if designed smartly.
« Last Edit: 09/25/2013 01:26 PM by heinkel174 »

Offline heinkel174

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My 2 cents,

The rocket is probably somewhere between ALASA and Minotaur I, maybe based on DF-21/25 technology. The payload is similarly between SeeMe and ORS/Tacsat.

IMO the level of miniaturization of an 100lb micro surveillance satellite is a stretch of the Chinese technology, while a TacSat-sized spysat isn't really expendable and too complex for real contingency launch.

Offline chewi

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This article says that it was seventh orbital launch conducted by China in 2013, but I think it was the eighth one. Or am I wrong?

Offline anik

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Or am I wrong?

No, you are right. It was eighth orbital launch from China in 2013. JSLC - five launches, XSLC - one, TSLC - two.

Offline edkyle99

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Have to wonder if the May 13, 2013 super-high altitude suborbital launch was a test related to Kuaizhou.  Of course China tried to develop a solid fuel orbital launcher named KT-1 about ten years ago, and it subsequently developed a solid fuel ASAT launcher.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline chewi

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Or am I wrong?

No, you are right. It was eighth orbital launch from China in 2013. JSLC - five launches, XSLC - one, TSLC - two.
Ok, thnx ;)
By the way, they've already corrected the info.

Offline jcm

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OH MY GOODNESS! IT'S AN ORBITAL LAUNCH! OF A NEW ROCKET!  :o

The launch vehicle is "Kuaizhou" (Quick-vessel, a.k.a. Clipper) and the satellite is named "Kuaizhou-1". Launch time is 04:37 UTC. The satellite, as I guessed before, is used for disaster emergency data monitoring and imaging (well you know what "disaster" means  ;)), and will be used by the national remote sensing center of the national Academy of Sciences (among others?  ;)).

http://news.mod.gov.cn/headlines/2013-09/25/content_4468181.htm

So you think "Clipper" rather than "Speedboat" is a better translation?
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Offline weedenbc

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Have to wonder if the May 13, 2013 super-high altitude suborbital launch was a test related to Kuaizhou.  Of course China tried to develop a solid fuel orbital launcher named KT-1 about ten years ago, and it subsequently developed a solid fuel ASAT launcher.

 - Ed Kyle

Very much doubt it.  The account of the KT-1 being the basis for the SC-19 comes from a single source who is not very reliable and the claim doesn't have much face value when you stop and think about it.

The SC-19 cannot be based on both the DF-21 and the KT-1. It would make no sense to base an ASAT weapon on a commercial launcher that was 0-2 in launches (failures in both flight tests in 2002 and 2003), especially when they can just take a DF-21 TEL and replace the warheads with a KKV.  That way you get a very reliable and well-known booster that also happens to be mobile.

What was used as the rocket in the May 13 launch is still unknown, and something I'm working on.  There is strong evidence that it launched from the same pad at Xichang located NW of the big LM pad, which is rumored to be the pad they did the 2005, 2006, and 2007 tests of the SC-19 from. That supports the theory that it too was based on a mobile TEL they could just drive on site.

I guess it is possible that this Kuaizhou rocket is in some way related to the KT-1 program, but I'd have to see some evidence to support it. The KT-1 was developed by China Aerospace Science &  Industry Corporation (CASIC), which is completely different entity from the company that makes the Long March rockets (CAST). The two are competitors, much like Boeing and Lockheed Martin.
« Last Edit: 09/25/2013 11:14 PM by weedenbc »
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Offline jcm

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Have to wonder if the May 13, 2013 super-high altitude suborbital launch was a test related to Kuaizhou.  Of course China tried to develop a solid fuel orbital launcher named KT-1 about ten years ago, and it subsequently developed a solid fuel ASAT launcher.

 - Ed Kyle

Very much doubt it.  The account of the KT-1 being the basis for the SC-19 comes from a single source who is not very reliable and the claim doesn't have much face value when you stop and think about it.

The SC-19 cannot be based on both the DF-21 and the KT-1. It would make no sense to base an ASAT weapon on a commercial launcher that was 0-2 in launches (failures in both flight tests in 2002 and 2003), especially when they can just take a DF-21 TEL and replace the warheads with a KKV.  That way you get a very reliable and well-known booster that also happens to be mobile.

What was used as the rocket in the May 13 launch is still unknown, and something I'm working on.  There is strong evidence that it launched from the same pad at Xichang located NW of the big LM pad, which is rumored to be the pad they did the 2005, 2006, and 2007 tests of the SC-19 from. That supports the theory that it too was based on a mobile TEL they could just drive on site.

I guess it is possible that this Kuaizhou rocket is in some way related to the KT-1 program, but I'd have to see some evidence to support it. The KT-1 was developed by China Aerospace Science &  Industry Corporation (CASI), which is completely different entity from the company that makes the Long March rockets (CAST). The two are competitors, much like Boeing and Lockheed Martin.


But that doesn't rule out that the KT-1 and the Kuaizhou are both derived from the DF-21/DF-31 family - that much
seems fairly plausible and it does seem that CASIC is involved in all of them - I don't understand why you bring up CAST, where does CAST come in to any of this?
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Offline weedenbc

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I bring up CAST because they make the Long March rockets.  If this is a new LM (maybe the LM-11 that has been brought up before) or it turns out it was made by CAST, then it can't be in any way related to the KT-1 because it's from a completely different company. I'd be like saying the new Atlas launch vehicle is based on a previous Delta rocket.

Now, if it turns out that the company who made this Kuaizhou thing is CASIC, then maybe it could be the rebirth of the KT-1.

No doubt that the KT-1 is probably based in some way on the DF-21.  CASIC does missiles, including the DF-21, and it sounds like the KT-1 was their attempt to turn their solid rocket technology into a commercial launch vehicle.

But saying that the SC-19 is based on the KT-1 means that they took the DF-21, converted it from a mobile launch vehicle to a fixed launch vehicle, had two failed flight tests, then converted it back to a mobile launch vehicle and had successes in 2005, 2006, and 2007. That doesn't make much sense, when they could have just replaced the warheads on the DF-21 with a KKV and made some tweaks to the software to get a mobile ASAT.

Think of it this way - I'm arguing that the KT-1 and SC-19 both have a common ancestor in the DF-21, as opposed to the DF-21 begat the KT-1 which begat the SC-19.
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Offline weedenbc

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Also, quote here from a Xinhua story from earlier this year about the development of a LM-11 solid-fuel quick reaction launch vehicle:

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/CZ-11/Description/Frame.htm

Still no idea if this is what was launched today, but there are some pieces of it that fit.
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Offline jcm

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Also, quote here from a Xinhua story from earlier this year about the development of a LM-11 solid-fuel quick reaction launch vehicle:

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/CZ-11/Description/Frame.htm

Still no idea if this is what was launched today, but there are some pieces of it that fit.

Right OK - if it is CZ-11, that's a different story.
I am going to assume for now that

Earlier rumors pointing to the Harbin Institute of Technology building the satellite and CASIC building the launcher seems to be confirmed.....

is correct and that it's a CASIC vehicle.
It will be interesting to see what comes out in the weeks to come.

1 object cataloged, 275 x 293 km x 96.7 deg orbit


« Last Edit: 09/25/2013 11:33 PM by jcm »
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Offline weedenbc

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More on the LM-11:
http://news.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2013/4/276274.shtm

This article says the LM-11 isn't supposed to have a first launch until 2014:

http://baike.baidu.com/view/10212332.htm

So maybe it is a CASIC launch. That would seem more plausible I think than a greatly accelerated timeline that contradicts official statements in the media.

Of course, if it is a CASIC launch then we're going to have Richard Fisher, Bill Gertz, and the other nuts claiming that is is really another ASAT test that China is trying to hide.
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Offline jcm

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http://news.sina.com.cn/o/2013-09-26/071928303628.shtml

talks about the relevance to quick replacement in space war

Google translate:
"Imagine the space combat in the future, once the enemy will destroy our satellites, we can quickly react quickly add a satellite launch system damage satellites, and to reverse the decline battlefield; when the enemy early warning satellites into our range, through rapid reaction space satellites will capture and destroy enemy satellites, the enemy's space assets will quickly depreciate. "Fast Boat Project" is China's space combat system to respond quickly. The launch is also China's first practical fast boat project, marking the Chinese space warfare capability is another jump."
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Offline edkyle99

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Think of it this way - I'm arguing that the KT-1 and SC-19 both have a common ancestor in the DF-21, as opposed to the DF-21 begat the KT-1 which begat the SC-19.
I've always believed that KT-1 had a DF-31 based first stage, based on dimensions from images of the thing.

 - Ed Kyle

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