Author Topic: Antares out of Kodiak  (Read 7847 times)

Offline kevin-rf

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Antares out of Kodiak
« on: 08/12/2013 01:25 AM »
One of Orbital's surprises in the new User's Guide was a plan to use Kodiak (KLC) for polar, sun synchronous, and one would assume retrograde orbits.

http://www.orbital.com/NewsInfo/Publications/Antares%20UG.pdf

I thought I would start a thread on this so we don't pollute the update thread.

To my eye it would require:

1. Orbital to market Antares launch services
2. The demand to be high enough to justify a new pad.
And to me, the kicker:
3. The payloads to out grow SSO launches from Wallops (WFF), while not being too heavy to be launched by Antares.

My quick eyeballing of the charts was says the Antares 131 at 400km SSO can do 3000 kg from WFF and a hair under 4500 kg from KLC. A 50% improvement, but is it enough to justify a new pad in this market?

What % of the SSO market needs that extra 1500 kg, but doesn't need to move to a Falcon9 or Atlas v401?

Thoughts?
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Offline spectre9

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #1 on: 08/12/2013 02:47 AM »
Orbital has already had success by developing an East Coast pad away from the established constituency.

Doing the same thing on the West Coast might be a good idea.

Really depends on Alaska coming to the table.

Offline averagespacejoe

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #2 on: 08/12/2013 05:47 AM »
I will definitely talk to the Alaska Aerospace Corp and make sure we are doing everything we can to accomedate. Bringing more rockets with orbital capacity to Kodiak would be amazing. I am a staffer for the Alaska Legislature, and this is exciting news, wish we would spread the news statewide :p

Offline Jim

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #3 on: 08/12/2013 11:42 AM »
Orbital has already had success by developing an East Coast pad away from the established constituency.

Doing the same thing on the West Coast might be a good idea.

Really depends on Alaska coming to the table.

Not really.
a.  The DOD is not going to use it.  They want to use the existing infrastructure that they have built at CCAFS and VAFB for spacecraft processing.
b. It is too early to say that OSC has success.  They have to capture other missions than ISS servicing.
c.  NASA would be hesitate too.  The costs don't make a case for it.  The Anthena Kodiakstar was a congressionally mandated boondoggle. The science wasn't worth the mission and there would be no mission worth the costs to go to Alaska.

Offline spectre9

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #4 on: 08/12/2013 01:06 PM »
Fair enough Jim.

Sounds like it's very unlikely to happen then.

Could they get a pad at VAFB? Are there any spare?

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #5 on: 08/12/2013 01:37 PM »

VAFB/KLC, Would it even be cost effective?

Already Delta IV/Atlas V/Delta II/Falcon 9 fly out of VAFB. Add to that, SpaceX has started chalking up non DOD contracts for VAFB flights.

Are there enough payloads to send Antares West?

Some SSO payloads could fly on Antares out of WFF.

Besides, Jim did not seem all that impressed when orbital announced the solid 13x configuration instead of a liquid upper stage.
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Offline arachnitect

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #6 on: 08/12/2013 09:22 PM »
I understand why VAFB is more appealing as a launch site, but the whole reason this came up is that, whereas previous Antares user guides listed both VAFB and KLC as possible west coast launch sites, the new user guide shows only KLC and has performance numbers and blurbs about the facilities.

Agreed that any west coast Antares is very unlikely as

1. East coast Antares can theoretically fly SSO
2. Delta II retirement pushed back
3. Orbital offering Minotaur VI
4. Athena not dead
5. SpaceX at VAFB
6. Soyuz at Guyana
7. less payloads in general


Offline Lars_J

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #7 on: 08/12/2013 09:24 PM »
Does KLC have any infrastructure to support KeroLox operations, or would it have to be built from scratch?

Offline baldusi

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #8 on: 08/12/2013 10:23 PM »
Does KLC have any infrastructure to support KeroLox operations, or would it have to be built from scratch?
I understand that it would have to be built from scratch. And I don't know if OSC wants to again depend on pad development from a government run ad hoc organization.

Offline Prober

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #9 on: 08/13/2013 01:19 PM »
The creative thinking on this is great, hope Orbital goes for funding.
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Offline spectre9

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #10 on: 09/04/2013 11:27 AM »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #11 on: 09/04/2013 06:00 PM »
Any meaning in this?

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Virginia-Alaska-form-space-launch-alliance-4772015.php

I wouldn't be sure.
I'm interested in this quote:
Quote
The state provided $4 million to the corporation in 2011 and $8 million last year, when Parnell also approved $25 million to expand the Kodiak facility. The corporation also received $8 million this year in funding from the Legislature.
I remember Elon stating that a new pad would cost around 25M. May be the Antares pad will be paid by the Alaska Aerospace Corp?

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #12 on: 09/04/2013 06:15 PM »
If so, didn't Orbital learn their lesson about not having control over pad construction?

Offline baldusi

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #13 on: 09/04/2013 07:04 PM »
If so, didn't Orbital learn their lesson about not having control over pad construction?
25M is a lot of money. They would have to charge it to the first client, which, probably, would mean that they never would have a first client. Sometimes you do what you have to rather than what you'd like to.

Offline zaitcev

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #14 on: 09/05/2013 12:04 AM »
Could they get a pad at VAFB? Are there any spare?

I imagine SLC-4W ought to be available.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #15 on: 09/05/2013 12:10 AM »
Could they get a pad at VAFB? Are there any spare?

I imagine SLC-4W ought to be available.

I don't think that has any chance of happening while SpaceX has SLC-4E. It is just too close.  Their best bet might be to take over the SLC-2E/W when Delta II retires, or building a new pad near the existing Taurus pad. (LC-576E)
« Last Edit: 09/05/2013 12:15 AM by Lars_J »

Offline Prober

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #16 on: 09/09/2013 06:45 PM »
Could they get a pad at VAFB? Are there any spare?

I imagine SLC-4W ought to be available.

I don't think that has any chance of happening while SpaceX has SLC-4E. It is just too close.  Their best bet might be to take over the SLC-2E/W when Delta II retires, or building a new pad near the existing Taurus pad. (LC-576E)
What happened to the first site SpaceX had at VAFB?   Couldn't that be used as the start of a new pad?
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: Antares out of Kodiak
« Reply #17 on: 09/09/2013 10:36 PM »
Could they get a pad at VAFB? Are there any spare?

I imagine SLC-4W ought to be available.

I don't think that has any chance of happening while SpaceX has SLC-4E. It is just too close.  Their best bet might be to take over the SLC-2E/W when Delta II retires, or building a new pad near the existing Taurus pad. (LC-576E)
What happened to the first site SpaceX had at VAFB?   Couldn't that be used as the start of a new pad?

That's sitting right next to ULA's Atlas V pad (3E) - No wonder ULA was unhappy about SpaceX launching an unproven rocket from 3W:

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=vafb&data=!1m4!1m3!1d4757!2d-120.5913643!3d34.6424304!2m1!1e3!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d68495!2d-122.391129!3d40.581106!3m2!1i1600!2i1085!4f13.1&fid=7
« Last Edit: 09/09/2013 10:36 PM by Lars_J »

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