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Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?

Yes
No

Author Topic: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?  (Read 13313 times)

Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Clayton Birchenough
Astro. Engineer and Computational Mathematics @ ERAU

Offline guckyfan

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Certainly not necessary. I would strongly suggest that it is not even very desirable for the timeframe in question.


Offline manboy

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Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Not enough evidence for either.
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline guckyfan

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Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Not enough evidence for either.

Disagree.

Time spent by russian Cosmonauts in MIR and ISS is conclusive proof that it is not necessary. You can make the point it is desirable.

Offline R7

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You'll survive the trip without artificial gravity, and once on Mars you have natural gravity  ;)
AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Offline Nascent Ascent

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Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Not enough evidence for either.

Disagree.

Time spent by russian Cosmonauts in MIR and ISS is conclusive proof that it is not necessary. You can make the point it is desirable.

Big difference.  When those Cosmonauts returned they were met by medical staff and didn't really have to do anything.  Is it really desirable to have a Mars landing crew laying in their couches barely able to function for who knows how long?

-NA
“Why should we send people into space when we have kids in the U.S. that can’t read”. - Barack Obama

Offline guckyfan

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Big difference.  When those Cosmonauts returned they were met by medical staff and didn't really have to do anything.  Is it really desirable to have a Mars landing crew laying in their couches barely able to function for who knows how long?

-NA

They recovered very quickly. It's not like they have to fight off martian monsters immediately after touchdown.


Offline manboy

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Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Not enough evidence for either.

Disagree.

Time spent by russian Cosmonauts in MIR and ISS is conclusive proof that it is not necessary.
For DRM 5.0, the crew would spend 180 days in microgravity to Mars, 550 days on the Martian surface and than another 180 in microgravity on the way back. You seem to have made the erroneous assumption that those 500 days on Mars won't have a negative affect on the astronauts.
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline manboy

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Big difference.  When those Cosmonauts returned they were met by medical staff and didn't really have to do anything.  Is it really desirable to have a Mars landing crew laying in their couches barely able to function for who knows how long?

-NA

They recovered very quickly.

That's not entirely true.

Here's a relevant NTRS document that I saved before it went down.
« Last Edit: 03/24/2013 07:42 PM by manboy »
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline deltaV

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Give the astronauts knee and elbow pads so they can crawl instead of walk the first few days on the surface.

Offline mlindner

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #10 on: 03/24/2013 08:59 PM »
Not required at all. They've already shown on the ISS that they can avoid all bone loss by exercising regularly. The upcoming ISS long duration mission will most likely further show that artificial gravity is not required. There's also no reason that they couldn't go jogging on the surface of Mars or exercise. Low gravity is way better than microgravity for the purposes of pressing against a weight for exercise.

Edit: As to the above diagram. I really doubt "clinically abnormal" means "unable to function." Even if your balance is screwed up, walking is written deeply into your spinal column. People can still walk when they've had a ton of alcohol, not well, but well enough. Make most stations on Mars that the astronauts have to work at be within sitting positions.
« Last Edit: 03/24/2013 09:02 PM by mlindner »
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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #11 on: 03/24/2013 09:40 PM »
Not required at all. They've already shown on the ISS that they can avoid all bone loss by exercising regularly. The upcoming ISS long duration mission will most likely further show that artificial gravity is not required. There's also no reason that they couldn't go jogging on the surface of Mars or exercise. Low gravity is way better than microgravity for the purposes of pressing against a weight for exercise.

Edit: As to the above diagram. I really doubt "clinically abnormal" means "unable to function." Even if your balance is screwed up, walking is written deeply into your spinal column. People can still walk when they've had a ton of alcohol, not well, but well enough. Make most stations on Mars that the astronauts have to work at be within sitting positions.

Note too on that graph 4% were "clinically abnormal" before their flight.  And were still considered fit to fly.

After even by that standard after one week only 14% are "clincally abormal" and after three weeks all were at essentially the preflight levels.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #12 on: 03/24/2013 09:45 PM »
Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Not enough evidence for either.

Disagree.

Time spent by russian Cosmonauts in MIR and ISS is conclusive proof that it is not necessary.
For DRM 5.0, the crew would spend 180 days in microgravity to Mars, 550 days on the Martian surface and than another 180 in microgravity on the way back. You seem to have made the erroneous assumption that those 500 days on Mars won't have a negative affect on the astronauts.

How do you know it is an erroneous assumption?

Why isn't assuming that there will be a negative effect erroneous?

They will be spending 550 days in a gravity field doing hard physical work in space suits that will mass somewhere between 60 and 120 kg and have the oppotunity to exrcise in the spacecraft.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline manboy

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #13 on: 03/24/2013 10:35 PM »
Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Not enough evidence for either.

Disagree.

Time spent by russian Cosmonauts in MIR and ISS is conclusive proof that it is not necessary.
For DRM 5.0, the crew would spend 180 days in microgravity to Mars, 550 days on the Martian surface and than another 180 in microgravity on the way back. You seem to have made the erroneous assumption that those 500 days on Mars won't have a negative affect on the astronauts.
Why isn't assuming that there will be a negative effect erroneous?
I'm not assuming anything, I'm simply acknowledging that there are unknowns.

Clearly there are artificial gravity proponents, and then there are those that think it unnecessary. In your opinion, is artificial gravity a must for manned Mars missions?
Not enough evidence for either.

Disagree.

Time spent by russian Cosmonauts in MIR and ISS is conclusive proof that it is not necessary.
For DRM 5.0, the crew would spend 180 days in microgravity to Mars, 550 days on the Martian surface and than another 180 in microgravity on the way back. You seem to have made the erroneous assumption that those 500 days on Mars won't have a negative affect on the astronauts.
They will be spending 550 days in a gravity field doing hard physical work in space suits that will mass somewhere between 60 and 120 kg and have the oppotunity to exrcise in the spacecraft.
Our experience on the ISS have shown that there may be issues that cannot be corrected with exercise (i.e. intracranial pressure, degradation in vision, etc.) or at least not with the current regimen.
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #14 on: 03/25/2013 08:15 AM »
I dont know the exact state of research but Im sure its not a "must". At worst some time would be wasted reacclimatizing. I much prefer the plans where they stay at mars for 18 months or so, given the huge risks of the travel and landing, and the huge costs in going faster.

Given that we haven't designed a perfect exercise machine or begun a mars vehicle with artificial gravity, completing the exercise machine seems more plausible. It may not solve every issue but Im sure there is room for improvement, and it is not clear there is an insurmountable problem right now, without this machine.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #15 on: 03/27/2013 02:40 AM »
Our experience on the ISS have shown that there may be issues that cannot be corrected with exercise (i.e. intracranial pressure, degradation in vision, etc.) or at least not with the current regimen.

Those "issues" have not been sufficent to ground a single astronaut, curtail a single rotation, or effect future missions.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline go4mars

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #16 on: 03/27/2013 02:52 AM »
Required?  No.

Preferable?  I believe so.

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Offline manboy

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #17 on: 03/27/2013 02:53 AM »
Our experience on the ISS have shown that there may be issues that cannot be corrected with exercise (i.e. intracranial pressure, degradation in vision, etc.) or at least not with the current regimen.

Those "issues" have not been sufficent to ground a single astronaut, curtail a single rotation, or effect future missions.
We don't know if these issues will continue to increase in severity the longer an astronaut is in a less than 1-g environment. In some cases the visual degradation was permanent.
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline Lar

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #18 on: 03/27/2013 03:29 AM »
Required?  No.

Preferable?  I believe so.
My vote and my thinking as well.  But I'd not hold up a mission lacking in artificial gravity while it was developed/perfected, I'd send it.
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Offline colbourne

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Re: Is Artificial Gravity Required for Human Missions to Mars?
« Reply #19 on: 03/27/2013 05:38 AM »
Gravity could be efficiently provided by having a long cable between the living quarters and the main propulsion units. (This might be required if nuclear propulsion is used anyway to reduce radiation levels for the crew).
I dont think that artificial gravity  is a major requirement for a Mars mission as long as the crew exercise correctly e.g. on circular running tracks etc.