Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - September, 2013 - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD  (Read 240093 times)

Online QuantumG

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Like I stated above, Musk said they would do a propulsive landing over water in the NASA/Spacex Teleconference on the CRS-2 mission.

Quote from: Clark Lindsey
During the NASA/SpaceX teleconference on the CRS-2 mission, Elon Musk confirmed the rumors that they will do a propulsive return test on the upcoming flight of the new Falcon V1.1.

With all due respect to Clark, Elon didn't say which upcoming Falcon v1.1 flight.. he just said:

Quote from: Elon
So, this year is about just recovering - hopefully recovering - the first stage, at all, from an ocean landing and then next year it'll be the boost-back, return to launch site, with the landing gear deployed. That's our aspiration.

and that there will be "several attempts" at the ocean landing.

As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
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Offline Jim

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cutting hairs.  Relight and water landing is "recovery procedures"

Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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Hmmmm... Well this is infuriating... ::)
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Online Garrett

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As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated.
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Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated.

Any idea where?
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Online guckyfan

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As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated.

Any idea where?

I am pretty sure it was in the post CRS2 Teleconference even if it did not make it into the transcript. But I am not going to listen through it again. ;)


Offline dcporter

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While guckyfan is taking one for the team, I'd like to apologize on behalf of the conspiring universe to all fans of CASSIOPIA herself for making the presently most exciting SpaceX topic legitimately, albeit tangentially, related to this mission. ;D
« Last Edit: 05/04/2013 02:14 PM by dcporter »

Offline Danderman

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As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated.

Nope. I read the transcript.

Online Lar

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As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated.

Nope. I read the transcript.
I'm in the "wasn't stated but depending on your read, more or less heavily implied" camp. And we bois have happily jumped to the most optimistic conclusion.

Likely? I'd like to think so. Certain? no.

PS dcporter "owes me a new keyboard" :)
« Last Edit: 05/04/2013 06:10 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk

Offline Danderman

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As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated.

Nope. I read the transcript.
I'm in the "wasn't stated but depending on your read, more or less heavily implied" camp. And we bois have happily jumped to the most optimistic conclusion.

Likely? I'd like to think so. Certain? no.

It would be unusual if Elon were to decide to burden the team developing the 1.1 variant with additional testing requirements for its first launch. If there were a failure during ascent, the team could never be 100% sure that the root cause were not the modifications required for landing.
« Last Edit: 05/04/2013 06:00 PM by Danderman »

Online Lar

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Likely? I'd like to think so. Certain? no.

It would be unusual if Elon were to decide to burden the team developing the 1.1 variant with additional testing requirements for its first launch. If there were a failure during ascent, the team could never be 100% sure that the root cause were not the modifications required for landing.

Yes. BUT if we assume that F9R == F9 v1.1 then the leg related things (on ascent) are not "additional" requirements, leaving them out means testing the "wrong vehicle"

On the third hand, incremental... they can be incremented in later (at the risk of Jim pointing out that it's now a new vehicle again... :) )

Also, this:

I'm going to argue that they should put a full set of legs on 1.1 as soon as possible, certainly before they try a fake landing on water.  They will affect the terminal velocity, center of gravity, aerodynamics, moments of inertia, heating, and other effects.  This is stuff you need to know, almost to the point of a test without legs being worth little except perhaps testing re-light.

Also, remember the Mars probe that died on impact, due to an unanticipated problem with legs extending (it hit the contact switch, the craft thought it had weight on the legs, and shut off the engines a few hundred meters up).

So test as you fly, and fly as you test.  Put full scale legs on from the beginning - don't wait for GH2 results.

exactly!
« Last Edit: 05/04/2013 06:47 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk

Online Garrett

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It would be unusual if Elon were to decide to burden the team developing the 1.1 variant with additional testing requirements for its first launch. If there were a failure during ascent, the team could never be 100% sure that the root cause were not the modifications required for landing.
C'mon. Of course he would. That's what makes SpaceX so different from other manufacturers and also why so many criticize (probably justifiably) how it's run. He required all previous designs to be "human rated" even though they had no need to be and he requires all current designs to be "Mars compatible" even though the current iterations will probably never go to Mars.

And engineers are good at finding root causes. Try not to insult their intelligence by suggesting that they could never differentiate the addition of the reusable landing mods from the rest of the rocket.
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Online Garrett

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As I said, there's no explicit statement that the CASSIOPE flight will be the flight they attempt an ocean landing with. I expect it will be, but I'd prefer an explicit statement if possible.
I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated.

Nope. I read the transcript.

From the CRS-2 Post Landing Teleconference, regarding the upcoming CRS-3 flight:
Quote
"This is also the version of Falcon 9 where we will attempt to recover the first stage..."
"Although, as I've said before, I think it's going to take us several flights before we are successful in that. I'm not sure it'll be this flight where we are successful, but that is our aspiration and that is one of the key design goals of the new version of Falcon 9"
Note that I highlighted the word "this", which was referring to CRS-3.
This would seem to imply that it'll be the CRS-3 flight where ocean landing will be first tested. Maybe the above quote is what got folks thinking it would be the next F9 launch?
Of course, Jim has said that it's certain that the CASSIOPE launch will attempt a first stage relight and that the information is public (or at least not a rumor), so maybe there is another explicit statement out there somewhere.
- "Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist." - Indiana Jones

Online Jcc

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F9 v1.1 is the version that will attempt recovery, Elon said he didn't know if the this flight (CRS-3) will be the one to succeed, but it will take several attempts to succeed. So, since CASSIOPE with use v1.1, they can attempt recovery, but will probably not succeed, but hopefully on a later attempt they will (ambitiously, perhaps CRS-3??). Not likely, it will take several attempts.

Of course, he is not saying one way or the other, and probably doesn't know for sure if they will attempt a water landing in July or not. But they might.

Will their Dragon recovery ship hold a first stage? It is conveniently located on the West Coast.

Offline douglas100

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...Will their Dragon recovery ship hold a first stage? It is conveniently located on the West Coast.

Compare the American Islander with the size of the Dragon in this picture.
Douglas Clark

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