Author Topic: Dennis Tito's Inspiration Mars Foundation Pre Announcement Thread  (Read 87692 times)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #80 on: 02/21/2013 07:15 PM »
Where are they going to keep all their food, and water, and spare parts, and trash?

Oh, and I forgot to add exercise equipment.
Mir-style equipment would fit in a Dragon.

But very little else - see my post about consumables above.
Regardless, if you have a minimalist architecture, you judge it based on the smallest reasonable size of equipment, not the largest (ISS). You could fit enough food in one or two cubic meters with ultra-efficient packaging.
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #81 on: 02/21/2013 08:00 PM »
Reminds me of Bob Zubrin Athena double flyby

http://pdf.aiaa.org/getfile.cfm?urlX=85%26%5D0%3BU%2BDN%26S7R%20CMU%24CBQ%3A%2B64K8%26%5FOGJ%0A&urla=%25%2ARH%27%21P%2C%20%0A&urlb=%21%2A%20%20%20%0A&urlc=%21%2A0%20%20%0A&urle=%27%2B%22D%22%23PJCU0%20%20%0A

Quote
Four Protons are then used to lift to orbit and mate with the hab four storable propulsion stages, each with a propellant mass of 18 tonnes and a dry mass of 2 tonnes, and an Isp of 326.5 (i.e. Russian
RD-0210 N2O4/UDMH engines).
(Briz-M ?)
This combination can throw 26 tonnes onto TMI with a 03 of 18
km2/s2.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 08:03 PM by Archibald »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #82 on: 02/21/2013 08:19 PM »
Dear press who go to this press conference, please ask the hard questions this time. We're disinterested in hearing another sales pitch. The hard questions are:

1. How much money do you have?
2. Where are you going to find the shortfall?

If they can't answer these questions, the adjective "dreamer" should appear in your article.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline GalacticIntruder

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #83 on: 02/21/2013 08:19 PM »
Certainly more plausible than Mars One, but just as inspirational and high risk, which is the whole reason to do a Mission that no human has ever done. Even if the 2 crew members die, if they travel farther than anyone else, it will be worth it. Various cliches apply.
 

Watch out for those pesky corners, they have teeth.

Offline RocketmanUS

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #84 on: 02/21/2013 08:28 PM »
1 ) 1 FH for hypergolic EDS
2 ) 1 F9 for crew capsule
3 ) 1 F9 for habitat module ( consumable, exercise equipment, back up life support , EVA, ect. )

2 and 3 mass within the ability of the EDS for given mission for crew of two. Would this be plausible?
Mars and beyond, human exploration
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Offline RocketmanUS

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #85 on: 02/21/2013 08:34 PM »
Dear press who go to this press conference, please ask the hard questions this time. We're disinterested in hearing another sales pitch. The hard questions are:

1. How much money do you have?
2. Where are you going to find the shortfall?

If they can't answer these questions, the adjective "dreamer" should appear in your article.

3. How will they test a crew return vehicle before the possible mission for reentry?
Mars and beyond, human exploration
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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #86 on: 02/21/2013 08:42 PM »
3. How will they test a crew return vehicle before the possible mission for reentry?

Launch one on an LV with a lot of spare lift capability and have it re-enter from a very high elliptical orbit, essentially what NASA is doing with EFT-1.
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Offline apace

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #87 on: 02/21/2013 08:46 PM »
3. How will they test a crew return vehicle before the possible mission for reentry?
Launch one on an LV with a lot of spare lift capability and have it re-enter from a very high elliptical orbit, essentially what NASA is doing with EFT-1.

Or try it untested and count on the maths and simulations.

Offline rcoppola

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #88 on: 02/21/2013 08:52 PM »
Dear press who go to this press conference, please ask the hard questions this time. We're disinterested in hearing another sales pitch. The hard questions are:

1. How much money do you have?
2. Where are you going to find the shortfall?

If they can't answer these questions, the adjective "dreamer" should appear in your article.

Yes, yes and...YES.
This could be incredibly exciting. But we've been down this rabbit hole a number of times over the last year or so.

How much, who's paying, who's going and exactly how are you getting there and back?

Answer those within a reasonable sphere of specificity and hell, I'll throw in some couch change myself.
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Offline Chalmer

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #89 on: 02/21/2013 08:55 PM »
What sort of mission cost are we looking at here?  The launch vehicle, Dragon capsule, consumables and fuel alone have to push this to $500M+?  Add in 4-5 years of preparation, training, etc...  Could this be done for <= $1B? 

Where is the money coming from?  I'm sure they could get some commercial sponsors and maybe even an exclusive TV deal that would pay some bills, but even that wouldn't get all the way to $1B I don't expect...

Well to speculate a little on where to money could come from, if this indeed turns out to be sending humans on a mars flyby free return mission.

Red Bull spent around $690 mill. over five years (2005-2009) on Formula One (They sponsor two teams). So they have the commitment and willingness to spend a high amount of money. They fit the bill for sponsoring something like this, especially since the massive success of the Baumgartner jump.
Not to mention that Dr. Jonathan Clark was on the Baumgartner team.

Now I'm not saying they will foot the whole thing, but they could be a significant sponsor. I'm sure if it gets going, then there are others that would want to join the team aswell.


And Tito can probably fund the whole thing until the initial studies have been made, so sponsors can enter later when there is some assurance that it is technically possible.

Offline RocketmanUS

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #90 on: 02/21/2013 08:55 PM »
3. How will they test a crew return vehicle before the possible mission for reentry?

Launch one on an LV with a lot of spare lift capability and have it re-enter from a very high elliptical orbit, essentially what NASA is doing with EFT-1.
Or a Lunar free return unmanned?
As long as it is tested first.
Mars and beyond, human exploration
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Offline Chalmer

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #91 on: 02/21/2013 08:59 PM »
So they want to keep 2 people confined inside a Dragon for 500 days?

Where are they going to keep all their food, and water, and spare parts, and trash? How are they going to develop ECLSS that can last that long without the ability to deliver replacement parts (considering the failure rate of the ISS ECLSS)? How will they fit all that closed-loop ECLSS inside a Dragon (considering the size of the ISS ECLSS) and still maintain some usable living space?

The IEEE paper covers those technical questions.

Is this paper publicly available? On L2 maybe? Or do you have it from somewhere else?

Offline RocketmanUS

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #92 on: 02/21/2013 09:01 PM »
What sort of mission cost are we looking at here?  The launch vehicle, Dragon capsule, consumables and fuel alone have to push this to $500M+?  Add in 4-5 years of preparation, training, etc...  Could this be done for <= $1B? 

Where is the money coming from?  I'm sure they could get some commercial sponsors and maybe even an exclusive TV deal that would pay some bills, but even that wouldn't get all the way to $1B I don't expect...

Well to speculate a little on where to money could come from, if this indeed turns out to be sending humans on a mars flyby free return mission.

Red Bull spent around $690 mill. over five years (2005-2009) on Formula One (They sponsor two teams). So they have the commitment and willingness to spend a high amount of money. They fit the bill for sponsoring something like this, especially since the massive success of the Baumgartner jump.
Not to mention that Dr. Jonathan Clark was on the Baumgartner team.

Now I'm not saying they will foot the whole thing, but they could be a significant sponsor. I'm sure if it gets going, then there are others that would want to join the team aswell.


And Tito can probably fund the whole thing until the initial studies have been made, so sponsors can enter later when there is some assurance that it is technically possible.
So a daily half hour tv spot per day with high lights?
Plus an internet subscription for live feeds, updates, and past info?
Multiple sponsors?

I would think the would want to send two sets of crews as a back up plan. More for launch failure than in space travel.
Mars and beyond, human exploration
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Offline QuantumG

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #93 on: 02/21/2013 09:02 PM »
Well to speculate a little on where to money could come from, if this indeed turns out to be sending humans on a mars flyby free return mission.

Red Bull ...

Now I'm not saying they will foot the whole thing, but they could be a significant sponsor. I'm sure if it gets going, then there are others that would want to join the team as well.

And Tito ...

If that's true, they should have this information to announce at the first press conference, including Tito's contributions. I expect they won't though. It'll be yet another "we're looking for sponsors" announcement, which actually means "we've tried looking for sponsors and have only gotten blank stares."

Maybe after the fifth or sixth of these types of announcements the space media stop being suckers for yet another unfunded dream flight (YAUDF?).
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline RocketmanUS

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #94 on: 02/21/2013 09:06 PM »
Well to speculate a little on where to money could come from, if this indeed turns out to be sending humans on a mars flyby free return mission.

Red Bull ...

Now I'm not saying they will foot the whole thing, but they could be a significant sponsor. I'm sure if it gets going, then there are others that would want to join the team as well.

And Tito ...

If that's true, they should have this information to announce at the first press conference, including Tito's contributions. I expect they won't though. It'll be yet another "we're looking for sponsors" announcement, which actually means "we've tried looking for sponsors and have only gotten blank stares."

Maybe after the fifth or sixth of these types of announcements the space media stop being suckers for yet another unfunded dream flight (YAUDF?).

So what are your cost estimates for such a mission to start with?
Mars and beyond, human exploration
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Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #95 on: 02/21/2013 09:10 PM »
So a daily half hour tv spot per day with high lights?
Plus an internet subscription for live feeds, updates, and past info?
Multiple sponsors?

If all goes well Joe 6Pack doesn't give a hoot for 99% of the 501 day trek time, only a few days (launch, flyby, reentry) will interest the main stream media and masses. The rest will interest general public as much as nasa-tv (sorry nasa-tv :)).

If things go south no sponsor wants to be associated with the events anymore.
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Offline Chalmer

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #96 on: 02/21/2013 09:12 PM »
Well to speculate a little on where to money could come from, if this indeed turns out to be sending humans on a mars flyby free return mission.

Red Bull ...

Now I'm not saying they will foot the whole thing, but they could be a significant sponsor. I'm sure if it gets going, then there are others that would want to join the team as well.

And Tito ...

If that's true, they should have this information to announce at the first press conference, including Tito's contributions. I expect they won't though. It'll be yet another "we're looking for sponsors" announcement, which actually means "we've tried looking for sponsors and have only gotten blank stares."

Maybe after the fifth or sixth of these types of announcements the space media stop being suckers for yet another unfunded dream flight (YAUDF?).


Well you might be right. I tend to agree actually, that Red Bull would be wanting to take to glory from day one. Let's see they might be flanked by red bull logos during the presser :)

The sucker part. Well aren't we all suckers and dreamers? Isn't that why we visit this site so much, and make imaginary rockets to take us to mars even before the press conference. At least we can dream for a week :)

Offline RocketmanUS

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #97 on: 02/21/2013 09:16 PM »
So a daily half hour tv spot per day with high lights?
Plus an internet subscription for live feeds, updates, and past info?
Multiple sponsors?

If all goes well Joe 6Pack doesn't give a hoot for 99% of the 501 day trek time, only a few days (launch, flyby, reentry) will interest the main stream media and masses. The rest will interest general public as much as nasa-tv (sorry nasa-tv :)).

If things go south no sponsor wants to be associated with the events anymore.
Show Big Brother and others like it. And how many people buy magazines about the tv soap opera shows?

Could there be $2B worth of revenue there?
Mars and beyond, human exploration
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Offline p51

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #98 on: 02/21/2013 09:18 PM »
Really, does anyone here truly take this seriously? I sure don't. I've talked with people I know at Johnson and Marshall, and all have told me that NASA isn't ready for such a mission and won't be for several years, "...even if they gave us an unlimited budget like we had before Apollo 11" in the words of one. A propulsion guy I know at JSC told me in September that no private company is anywhere near ready for anything beyond what has been done with the Dragon hardware/vehicle.
I was at the Planetary Resources news conference in Seattle last spring and had raised eyebrows for most of that. This whole "Mars flyby in 2018" in my mind makes the asteroid mining concept sound downright plasuable in comparison. At least the mining idea didn't have such a tight timeframe.
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Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #99 on: 02/21/2013 09:23 PM »
Show Big Brother and others like it. And how many people buy magazines about the tv soap opera shows?
Big Brothers interest people because there's numerous crazy people doing crazy things, sex and drama to stalk. Two people sitting in a cramped pod eating paste and doing nothing day in and day out plus some space techno babble to go with that would be the most boring "big brother" ever for family 6Pack.

Quote
Could there be $2B worth of revenue there?

IIRC most successful reality-tv (Idols?) in US nets around $200M per season. I fail to see mass attraction for space opera worth $2B in the cards.

edit: #1 Idols estimated revenue $6.67M / half hour

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/american-idol-x-factor-two-half-men-forbes-310128
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 09:31 PM by R7 »
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