Author Topic: Dennis Tito's Inspiration Mars Foundation Pre Announcement Thread  (Read 85649 times)

Offline R7

  • Propulsophile
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • Don't worry.. we can still be fans of OSC and SNC
  • Liked: 944
  • Likes Given: 663
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #60 on: 02/21/2013 05:25 PM »
If there would be a Venus flyby too why doesn't the press release advertize it? It's just "historic journey to Mars and back". Surely Venus flyby would be as historic?
AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Offline Drkskywxlt

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 152
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #61 on: 02/21/2013 05:27 PM »
What sort of mission cost are we looking at here?  The launch vehicle, Dragon capsule, consumables and fuel alone have to push this to $500M+?  Add in 4-5 years of preparation, training, etc...  Could this be done for <= $1B? 

Where is the money coming from?  I'm sure they could get some commercial sponsors and maybe even an exclusive TV deal that would pay some bills, but even that wouldn't get all the way to $1B I don't expect...

Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8333
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 5119
  • Likes Given: 3418
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #62 on: 02/21/2013 05:28 PM »
Drop off some orbiters from the mission spacecraft. After all, the  instruments on most space probes usually don't mass that much.

If the flight is Earth-Venus-Mars-Earth free return trajectory than you might able to deploy some short duration orbiter around Venus or even even Venusian atmospheric probes.
Danderman's admonishments notwithstanding...  :P

Presumably it would not be too hard to adapt a microsat deployer that is normally on the second stage to the Dragon trunk, so ya.

Forgot about dropping things off.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline strangequark

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Co-Founder, Tesseract Space
  • Mojave, CA
  • Liked: 211
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #63 on: 02/21/2013 05:28 PM »
If there would be a Venus flyby too why doesn't the press release advertize it? It's just "historic journey to Mars and back". Surely Venus flyby would be as historic?

Yes, though Mars is something we'd like to land on one day, so it's understandable why they emphasize it. I don't see how they do this other than EVME. The other free return trajectories have a lot longer TOF.
Don't flippantly discount the old rules of this industry. Behind each one lies a painful lesson learned from broken, twisted hardware. Learn those lessons, and respect the knowledge gained from them. Only then, see if you can write new rules that will meet those challenges.

Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8333
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 5119
  • Likes Given: 3418
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #64 on: 02/21/2013 05:29 PM »
What sort of mission cost are we looking at here?  The launch vehicle, Dragon capsule, consumables and fuel alone have to push this to $500M+?  Add in 4-5 years of preparation, training, etc...  Could this be done for <= $1B? 

Where is the money coming from?  I'm sure they could get some commercial sponsors and maybe even an exclusive TV deal that would pay some bills, but even that wouldn't get all the way to $1B I don't expect...

Make sure it's a man and a woman and they REALLY like each other, and broadcast vid??? But no, "porn on the internet wants to be free" so I don't see that as raising hundreds of millions

Billionaire funding seems the most reliable source.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 610
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #65 on: 02/21/2013 05:32 PM »
* Launched on a Falcon Heavy
* Privately funded, but leveraging NASA expertise in a few key technical areas (TPS and ECLSS)

What's FH's TMI capability? Thought D4H beats it even to GTO. Isn't Paragon there to provide the ECLSS.

If I remember the FH launch presser correctly it's about 9,000kg through TMI but that's just a recollection and extrapolation from Wikipedia; it thus might be subject to (gross) error.  Also, that's TMI with a kerolox upper stage (~350s).  Tito might want Musk to provide the methalox upper stage (~380s) that could boost the mass budget a bit.


[edit]
TMI mass corrected
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 05:36 PM by Ben the Space Brit »
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline Drkskywxlt

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 152
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #66 on: 02/21/2013 05:40 PM »
Make sure it's a man and a woman and they REALLY like each other, and broadcast vid??? But no, "porn on the internet wants to be free" so I don't see that as raising hundreds of millions

Billionaire funding seems the most reliable source.

Well, having a man and a woman that REALLY like each other would probably be good so we don't have the first murder in space.  Spending almost 2 years together with someone in a tiny Dragon capsule would seriously...strain...any relationship.

But realistically, I think a TV deal would make some money.  Not as a reality show per se, but exclusive interviews, video, etc...  But, I don't think it would make that much since watching them just float there would get old after awhile.   

Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6324
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1578
  • Likes Given: 1388
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #67 on: 02/21/2013 05:43 PM »
I am interested to learn what is so special with the 2018 date.

It is because of the planetary alignment, so you can do a free return flight.

something like in this picture.

That is what I suspected if it really involves a Venus flyby. But it is weird, that would not be mentioned.

Well, maybe they want to hold back that bombshell for the press conference.

But if 2018 and 2035 are dates for that trajectory that would be interesting and probably a giveaway.


Offline Space Pete

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #68 on: 02/21/2013 05:45 PM »
So they want to keep 2 people confined inside a Dragon for 500 days?

Where are they going to keep all their food, and water, and spare parts, and trash? How are they going to develop ECLSS that can last that long without the ability to deliver replacement parts (considering the failure rate of the ISS ECLSS)? How will they fit all that closed-loop ECLSS inside a Dragon (considering the size of the ISS ECLSS) and still maintain some usable living space?

And above all, how will they pay for it all?

Sorry, not convinced.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 05:46 PM by Space Pete »
Electronic Engineer by day, NASASpaceflight's ISS Editor by night | Read my NASASpaceflight articles here

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9565
  • Liked: 345
  • Likes Given: 453
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #69 on: 02/21/2013 05:45 PM »
I would recommend you guys putting all your concepts on how to accomplish this mission over in the "Advanced Concepts" section, and leave this thread for actual information about this project.

For most people, wading through pages of "fan-wanking" personal concepts to find a post with actual information is not fun. That is what the Advanced Concepts section is for.

Let's please keep this thread for information about Tito's project, not YOUR project.

Offline R7

  • Propulsophile
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • Don't worry.. we can still be fans of OSC and SNC
  • Liked: 944
  • Likes Given: 663
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #70 on: 02/21/2013 05:47 PM »
it's about 9,000kg through TMI

So it's either really small people or multiple launches.
AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6324
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1578
  • Likes Given: 1388
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #71 on: 02/21/2013 05:53 PM »
it's about 9,000kg through TMI

So it's either really small people or multiple launches.


But what would the mass for that Venus flyby trajectory be?

Offline R7

  • Propulsophile
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • Don't worry.. we can still be fans of OSC and SNC
  • Liked: 944
  • Likes Given: 663
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #72 on: 02/21/2013 06:02 PM »
But what would the mass for that Venus flyby trajectory be?

About the same or even slightly less? In Chalmer's image Venus injection speed is listed at 4.43km/s. TMI dv is about the same, Wiki lists 4.3km/s. AIUI the Venus path is taken when velocity change is retrograde in relation to Earth's orbit, Mars injection prograde.
AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9565
  • Liked: 345
  • Likes Given: 453
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #73 on: 02/21/2013 06:05 PM »
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31166.msg1015482#msg1015482

A new thread for technical issues about this proposal.

Offline jongoff

  • Recovering Rocket Plumber/Space Entrepreneur
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6020
  • Lafayette/Broomfield, CO
  • Liked: 1995
  • Likes Given: 683
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #74 on: 02/21/2013 06:08 PM »
So they want to keep 2 people confined inside a Dragon for 500 days?

Where are they going to keep all their food, and water, and spare parts, and trash? How are they going to develop ECLSS that can last that long without the ability to deliver replacement parts (considering the failure rate of the ISS ECLSS)? How will they fit all that closed-loop ECLSS inside a Dragon (considering the size of the ISS ECLSS) and still maintain some usable living space?

The IEEE paper covers those technical questions.

Quote
And above all, how will they pay for it all?

Sorry, not convinced.

That's what I'm more interested in. One difference between this and a lot of the other big space plans recently announced is that this is a non-profit project, not a for-profit venture. This gives it different funding dynamics. Not sure if it makes funding *easier*, but it's definitely a different beast. Also we don't know yet if Tito is planning on putting in any of his money, and if so how much. 

~Jon

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10842
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #75 on: 02/21/2013 06:18 PM »
If there would be a Venus flyby too why doesn't the press release advertize it?

No Venus flyby, although it does get close to Venus' orbit when the planet is not nearby. Aerocapture at Earth, then reentry.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26889
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 6788
  • Likes Given: 4813
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #76 on: 02/21/2013 06:19 PM »
If there would be a Venus flyby too why doesn't the press release advertize it?

No Venus flyby, although it does get close to Venus' orbit when the planet is not nearby. Aerocapture at Earth, then reentry.
That would be pretty sweet, though...
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Space Pete

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #77 on: 02/21/2013 06:35 PM »
Where are they going to keep all their food, and water, and spare parts, and trash?

Oh, and I forgot to add exercise equipment.
Electronic Engineer by day, NASASpaceflight's ISS Editor by night | Read my NASASpaceflight articles here

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26889
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 6788
  • Likes Given: 4813
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #78 on: 02/21/2013 06:36 PM »
Where are they going to keep all their food, and water, and spare parts, and trash?

Oh, and I forgot to add exercise equipment.
Mir-style equipment would fit in a Dragon.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 610
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #79 on: 02/21/2013 06:55 PM »
Where are they going to keep all their food, and water, and spare parts, and trash?

Oh, and I forgot to add exercise equipment.
Mir-style equipment would fit in a Dragon.

But very little else - see my post about consumables above.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Tags: