Author Topic: Dennis Tito's Inspiration Mars Foundation Pre Announcement Thread  (Read 85592 times)

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #40 on: 02/21/2013 03:32 PM »

The Mir guys just had an exercise bike and resistive/compressive garments, could easily fit in a Dragon. I don't believe they had the resistance training or treadmill of ISS.

Yeah, but don't forget all the other things that also have to fit in there - specifically 500 days' consumables for two crew.  I'm pretty sure that, at least at launch, they'll be wedged in their smaller-than-normal-spec seats like the astronauts were during Project Gemini and will literally have to eat themselves free over a period of months.  Yes, I'm saying that they'll be trapped in their launch couches for a very, very long time.

Eating through won't help unless they have a means to get rid of the waste. I think the modification would include some inflatable module that contains most of the consumables.

At least such a flight would clarify a lot about the radiation issue.

Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #41 on: 02/21/2013 03:41 PM »
get rid of the waste ... the radiation issue.

Don't get rid of the waste, use it. Call it Mitigate Radiation HArm turNKEY concept.
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Offline jongoff

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #42 on: 02/21/2013 04:02 PM »
Doesn't pass the Jerry Maguire test it seems..... NEXT!

They haven't even had the press conference yet, and we only have technical details leaked from one paper, and you're already writing the idea off? While I agree that without "the money", they won't go anywhere, I for one will at least reserve judgement until after the press conference.

~Jon

Offline Lar

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #43 on: 02/21/2013 04:08 PM »
My question is "why do this", other than the coolness factor. What meaningful science or exploration or exploitation can be accomplished? 

Long duration is about all I came up with. Or is the speculation that they are going to have some really cool instruments to do observations with as they fly by?

I hope they pick a pair of people who REALLY like each other. :) Not a lot of privacy
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline StephenB

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #44 on: 02/21/2013 04:11 PM »
My question is "why do this"

Exploration. One potential upside I see with all of these new ventures is that success in one could lift all boats by increased involvement, mindshare, participation, and funding. Success can breed investment.

Offline strangequark

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #45 on: 02/21/2013 04:20 PM »
May I ask one of our gurus here to make some calculations how a voyage of 501 days looks like with a start in 2018? Fly-by? Mars orbit? Anything else?

There's what looks to be a relevant set of tables at http://clowder.net/hop/railroad/sched.html but I haven't looked at them closely yet.
According to this it can't be done in 501 days.

Point of note that 501 days is about right for an Earth-Venus-Mars-Earth free return trajectory

http://cmapspaceexp.ihmc.us/rid=1JWVZ8RM5-TQKTP4-18RG/Mars%20Free%20Returns%20Via%20Gravity%20Assist%20from%20Venus.pdf
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Offline yg1968

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #46 on: 02/21/2013 04:22 PM »
So who's the billionaire?

Dennis Tito but he is not a billionaire. He had a net worth of $200M prior to his ISS trip.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 04:23 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Lar

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #47 on: 02/21/2013 04:26 PM »
My question is "why do this"

Exploration.

Sorry I didn't ask my question clearly enough... exploration of what? What exactly are two guys in a capsule flying by Mars going to be able to see or explore. What instruments are reasonable to put in (on? through the walls of?) a Dragon?

One potential upside I see with all of these new ventures is that success in one could lift all boats by increased involvement, mindshare, participation, and funding. Success can breed investment.
Agreed. Plus coolness factor as I said.

Sorry if I come off as a skeptic but this seems dilutive. Put the money in Phobos ISRU instead, although I guess you could argue that takes a LOT more money than two men in a can. (or a man and a woman?)
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #48 on: 02/21/2013 04:28 PM »
Point of note that 501 days is about right for an Earth-Venus-Mars-Earth free return trajectory

http://cmapspaceexp.ihmc.us/rid=1JWVZ8RM5-TQKTP4-18RG/Mars%20Free%20Returns%20Via%20Gravity%20Assist%20from%20Venus.pdf

Would that fit in with this quote from the NewSpace Journal?

Quote
NASA would also have a role in this mission in terms of supporting key ECLSS and thermal protection system technology development

Thermal protection for conditions during the venus flyby?


Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #49 on: 02/21/2013 04:29 PM »
My question is "why do this", other than the coolness factor. What meaningful science or exploration or exploitation can be accomplished?

The primary objective is to prove that it can be done - to prove that humans can survive the trip to Mars and back to Earth and that it doesn't have to be a multi-billion dollar project requiring around a dozen SHLV launches and a huge spacecraft like something out of a sci-fi movie.

That is where the 'Inspiration' comes from in the foundation name - to inspire people to emulate where they have gone before and inspire the decision-makers to realise that it does not have to be ruinously expensive and require enormous technology development programs.
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Offline strangequark

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #50 on: 02/21/2013 04:31 PM »
Thermal protection for conditions during the venus flyby?

Thermal protection for when you reenter the Earth's atmosphere while screaming in at 14 km/s.
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Offline Lar

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #51 on: 02/21/2013 04:37 PM »
My question is "why do this", other than the coolness factor. What meaningful science or exploration or exploitation can be accomplished?

The primary objective is to prove that it can be done - to prove that humans can survive the trip to Mars and back to Earth and that it doesn't have to be a multi-billion dollar project requiring around a dozen SHLV launches and a huge spacecraft like something out of a sci-fi movie.

That is where the 'Inspiration' comes from in the foundation name - to inspire people to emulate where they have gone before and inspire the decision-makers to realise that it does not have to be ruinously expensive and require enormous technology development programs.

OK, yes... Just like climbing Everest the first time didn't really advance the state of the art in mountain climbing THAT much, but no one had done it and doing it proved it could be done. I'm in.

So then, what useful science can be done without raising mission cost too much.. is it at all possible to do much useful observing of things? A free return trajectory doesn't give chances for collecting much of anything, no... so all you can do is look presumably...

"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #52 on: 02/21/2013 05:05 PM »
* Launched on a Falcon Heavy
* Privately funded, but leveraging NASA expertise in a few key technical areas (TPS and ECLSS)

What's FH's TMI capability? Thought D4H beats it even to GTO. Isn't Paragon there to provide the ECLSS.
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Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #53 on: 02/21/2013 05:05 PM »
I am interested to learn what is so special with the 2018 date.


Is this kind of trajectory really only possible at this time and 2035 again or is that trajectory possible with one Falcon Heavy only at these dates and it could be done with more lift or with two launches more frequently?

I would guess the second but can't really know.

Edit: If Venus were really involved it is probably the first.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 05:07 PM by guckyfan »

Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #54 on: 02/21/2013 05:11 PM »
I am interested to learn what is so special with the 2018 date.

Minimum energy trajectory opportunities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars#Launch_windows

Quote
The minimum-energy launch windows for a Martian expedition occur at intervals of approximately two years and two months, i.e. 780 days (the planet's synodic period with respect to Earth).[11] In addition, the lowest available transfer energy varies on a roughly 16-year cycle. For example, there was a minimum in the 1969 and 1971 launch windows, rising to a peak in the late 1970s, and hitting another low in 1986 and 1988

edit: added last sentence.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 05:30 PM by R7 »
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #55 on: 02/21/2013 05:17 PM »
It is amazing how everyone responds to these "news" items by posting their own personal architecture and subdesigns, as if they were in charge of the project, and virtually no one focuses on whether these proposals are going anywhere.

It's all about the Bucks, not the Buck Rogers.

Posts about the economics and the potential of the principals to raise the money are worthwhile. Guesses about the paint jobs of their spaceships are kind of worthless.

It is very possible that the actual commercial systems that fly to the Moon or Mars or the asteroids may be very different from your guesses.

Geez, there could be some Saudi prince behind this one who owns a company that makes giant ion drives that can get a crew to Mars in 30 days. Speculating about this stuff is pointless.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #56 on: 02/21/2013 05:18 PM »
I am interested to learn what is so special with the 2018 date.

Simple.

They had to pick a launch window, why not an early one?

Offline Chalmer

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #57 on: 02/21/2013 05:20 PM »
I am interested to learn what is so special with the 2018 date.

It is because of the planetary alignment, so you can do a free return flight.

something like in this picture.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #58 on: 02/21/2013 05:21 PM »
So then, what useful science can be done without raising mission cost too much.. is it at all possible to do much useful observing of things? A free return trajectory doesn't give chances for collecting much of anything, no...

Drop off some orbiters from the mission spacecraft. After all, the  instruments on most space probes usually don't mass that much.

If the flight is Earth-Venus-Mars-Earth free return trajectory than you might able to deploy some short duration orbiter around Venus or even Venusian atmospheric probes.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2013 05:36 PM by Zed_Noir »

Offline strangequark

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #59 on: 02/21/2013 05:24 PM »
It is amazing how everyone responds to these "news" items by posting their own personal architecture and subdesigns, as if they were in charge of the project, and virtually no one focuses on whether these proposals are going anywhere.

It's all about the Bucks, not the Buck Rogers.

Sure, but hypothetical architectures help with getting an idea as to how monumental an undertaking this would be, and the level of funding they would need for us to take them seriously.

Answer is, it's not as daunting as it might look at first. Give them a billionaire (or two) and things could get exciting.
Don't flippantly discount the old rules of this industry. Behind each one lies a painful lesson learned from broken, twisted hardware. Learn those lessons, and respect the knowledge gained from them. Only then, see if you can write new rules that will meet those challenges.

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