Author Topic: Dennis Tito's Inspiration Mars Foundation Pre Announcement Thread  (Read 87617 times)

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9162
  • Delta-t is the salient metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 610
  • Likes Given: 314
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #300 on: 02/26/2013 01:27 AM »
Ok.  So it wouldn't be a conjunction class trajectory.  since delta-vee is off the table, would it be one of these trajectories?
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Jason1701

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Liked: 70
  • Likes Given: 39
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #301 on: 02/26/2013 02:17 AM »
!  Preferably a batchelor billionaire, and the contest is for a woman to join him . . .

Astronaut Needs A Wife.


"Nothing Beats an Astronaut."

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #302 on: 02/26/2013 02:56 AM »
The website for the organization is now on at http://www.inspirationmars.org/.

And there will be a webcast for the press conference! http://www.visualwebcaster.com/inspirationmars

BTW the page is showing Inspiration Mars - A Mission for America. I guess they won't be flying Continental hardware then.  ;)
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Bubbinski

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #303 on: 02/26/2013 02:59 AM »
A website called http://www.inspirationmars.org/ just popped up.  Has a link which I presume would be active for the Wednesday press conference.
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

Offline Calphor

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Liked: 47
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #304 on: 02/26/2013 04:11 AM »
I was going to wait for the presser to comment, but I have to say I'll be disappointed if its just a fly-by. Seems a bit pointless. Huge effort and risk, for little reward.

How much more delta-v would be required to enter a highly elliptical orbit with a lowish perigee? Even if that took it from single FH to dual FH launches, the improved return would be worth it. IMO.

Plus added margin for supplies and a habitat module. Maybe even the possibility of a Phobos &/or Deimos rendezvous.

Mars orbit, moon(s) sample return, that would be inspirational!

Color yourself disappointed. They will announce a free return flyby with a 2 person crew. The deltaV required to accomplish that "simple" mission is going to be enormous. Adding any additional mass will scuttle the opportunity.

The mission as proposed is bold and risky, but doable. I wish them the best and hope to be around to help them accomplish it.
« Last Edit: 02/26/2013 04:11 AM by Calphor »

Offline jongoff

  • Recovering Rocket Plumber/Space Entrepreneur
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6048
  • Lafayette/Broomfield, CO
  • Liked: 2038
  • Likes Given: 692
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #305 on: 02/26/2013 04:27 AM »
One other interesting point about the IEEE paper--apparently the draft I saw was the final version, because the papers were due in by December. Which means that there are several issues they've made a lot more progress on since the paper was submitted. Wish I could be there in person to see the presentation next week.

Offline spectre9

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2403
  • Australia
  • Liked: 35
  • Likes Given: 66
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #306 on: 02/26/2013 05:49 AM »
NASA doesn't make heat shields, Lockheed built the largest one ever for MSL.

SpaceX uses their own version of PICA, PICA-X

This is technology that already exists in the commercial world. Don't see why NASA is needed.

NASA only works with commercial crew as an oversight to make sure the companies stick to the strict NASA requirements.

Hypersonic test and analysis capabilities for a 14km/s reentry.

SpaceX leveraged NASA help in developing PICA-X, as has pretty much everyone else. Helping private entities leverage esoteric NASA expertise to enable private/commercial projects is an example of NASA doing things right, IMO.

~Jon

Thanks for the clarification. I can see what you mean now.  :)

I guess most of it would be covered by prior work on many other reentry shields like Orion which will be built for Mars return velocities.

Offline Dalhousie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
  • Liked: 259
  • Likes Given: 316
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #307 on: 02/26/2013 06:31 AM »
One other interesting point about the IEEE paper--apparently the draft I saw was the final version, because the papers were due in by December. Which means that there are several issues they've made a lot more progress on since the paper was submitted. Wish I could be there in person to see the presentation next week.

When is the paper going to be published?
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9162
  • Delta-t is the salient metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 610
  • Likes Given: 314
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #308 on: 02/26/2013 12:38 PM »
I checked out the inspiration mars web page.  The illustration there was an epiphany for me.  I had not realized that Mars' orbit was actually that close to Earth.  I no longer doubt manned missions to Mars in my lifetime.  I don't quite get why it takes 500 some odd days to go a few thousand miles, but hey.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8663
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 5410
  • Likes Given: 3567
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #309 on: 02/26/2013 12:48 PM »
I checked out the inspiration mars web page.  The illustration there was an epiphany for me.  I had not realized that Mars' orbit was actually that close to Earth.  I no longer doubt manned missions to Mars in my lifetime.  I don't quite get why it takes 500 some odd days to go a few thousand miles, but hey.

If you stand far enough away at just the right angle, and then zoom in enough (assuming perfect optics but hey, this is my hypothetical) you can get that shot.

I haven't been there but they tell me it's nice[1].

Hope that helps!

1 - Gold records on the wall and everything.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline R7

  • Propulsophile
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • Don't worry.. we can still be fans of OSC and SNC
  • Liked: 944
  • Likes Given: 663
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #310 on: 02/26/2013 01:14 PM »
OK who picked the hammer-and-sickle red color for Mars? It's not that red of a planet   :P  Or maybe it's to lure funding from China.
AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Offline outward

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 91
  • Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #311 on: 02/26/2013 02:19 PM »
I was going to wait for the presser to comment, but I have to say I'll be disappointed if its just a fly-by. Seems a bit pointless. Huge effort and risk, for little reward.

How much more delta-v would be required to enter a highly elliptical orbit with a lowish perigee? Even if that took it from single FH to dual FH launches, the improved return would be worth it. IMO.

Plus added margin for supplies and a habitat module. Maybe even the possibility of a Phobos &/or Deimos rendezvous.

Mars orbit, moon(s) sample return, that would be inspirational!

Color yourself disappointed. They will announce a free return flyby with a 2 person crew. The deltaV required to accomplish that "simple" mission is going to be enormous. Adding any additional mass will scuttle the opportunity.

The mission as proposed is bold and risky, but doable. I wish them the best and hope to be around to help them accomplish it.
Is the required deltaV enormous? Isn’t the purpose of only a flyby, on a free return trajectory (along with a gravity assist or two) to keep the deltaV down to something modest (at least the deltaV required from the manned vehicle)? I thought, by definition, the idea of a free return meant that the initial deltaV (in this case that which pushes you out beyond the earth’s sphere of influence) would be sufficient to bring you back home: no additional push needed? So to get this mission headed in the right direction, we’re looking at accelerating the spacecraft to a speed just a bit beyond earth escape velocity, this occurring at the edge of the earth’s sphere of influence. Is this what others think, or am I off my physics rocker??
The Moon first; she's right there, made of stuff we need, and it moves us to a two planet species.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9162
  • Delta-t is the salient metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 610
  • Likes Given: 314
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #312 on: 02/26/2013 02:34 PM »
Is the required deltaV enormous?

Those pages from Larson & Pranke suggest pretty large delta-vees.  I don't know what a flyby trajectory should look like.  If they take any questions tomorrow, the best question for informing the armchair observers on this thread, would be regarding their proposed trajectory.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6419
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1612
  • Likes Given: 1433
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #313 on: 02/26/2013 02:56 PM »
Is the required deltaV enormous?

Those pages from Larson & Pranke suggest pretty large delta-vees.  I don't know what a flyby trajectory should look like.  If they take any questions tomorrow, the best question for informing the armchair observers on this thread, would be regarding their proposed trajectory.


Another question would be the launch window. How many days will they have to fly the planned trajectory?


Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9162
  • Delta-t is the salient metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 610
  • Likes Given: 314
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #314 on: 02/26/2013 03:39 PM »
The trajectory and launch window go hand in hand.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline R7

  • Propulsophile
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • Don't worry.. we can still be fans of OSC and SNC
  • Liked: 944
  • Likes Given: 663
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #315 on: 02/26/2013 03:48 PM »
  I don't know what a flyby trajectory should look like.

Jongoff already posted about possible candidate trajectory, see

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31160.msg1016197#msg1016197

Would be interesting to know what's the required dv to inject into that orbit. Venus-flyby version posted before that listed 4.43km/s (from LEO AIUI)

AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Offline mrmandias

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 507
  • US
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #316 on: 02/26/2013 04:03 PM »
!  Preferably a batchelor billionaire, and the contest is for a woman to join him . . .

Astronaut Needs A Wife.


"Nothing Beats an Astronaut."

Stars in Her Eyes.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9162
  • Delta-t is the salient metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 610
  • Likes Given: 314
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #317 on: 02/26/2013 04:21 PM »
  I don't know what a flyby trajectory should look like.

Jongoff already posted about possible candidate trajectory, see

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31160.msg1016197#msg1016197

Would be interesting to know what's the required dv to inject into that orbit. Venus-flyby version posted before that listed 4.43km/s (from LEO AIUI)

Thanks for that.  Totally overlooked it.  So how much delta-vee does that trajectory include? 

Oh.  I may consider the twitterverse, FWIW, having seen that good information can happen in a few words.  I can evolve...
« Last Edit: 02/26/2013 04:38 PM by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #318 on: 02/26/2013 07:46 PM »
Webcast!

Presser:

"Great news! The Inspiration Mars press conference will be available online at 1 p.m. ET tomorrow. Visit www.inspirationmars.org and register for the webcast by clicking “watch live.” Please note that the registration link is not yet activated but will be available for registration by tomorrow. Feel free to share this information with your readers and viewers. Thank you! "

Offline AJW

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
  • Liked: 489
  • Likes Given: 62
Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #319 on: 02/26/2013 08:12 PM »
One of the key concerns for the Inspiration Mars mission is how it will be paid for.  I think the answer is easy and that is corporate sponsorship.  To put the numbers in perspective, Red Bull spent $900M in 2010 on advertising.  GoDaddy spent $100M and Apple alone spends $1B.  A single 30-second ad during the Super Bowl was over $3M.  Think what a few space trips did for Tang.  Now your product is going to Mars.

Back in 1993, Columbia Pictures spent $500K to put the name 'Last Action Hero' on the side of a 58-foot Conestoga rocket.  In 2000, Pizza Hut paid $1M to have their logo on a Russian Proton rocket that delivered mini pizzas to the ISS.  We just saw a LEGO space station sent and built on the ISS.  I am sure some money changed hands there.

There are some obvious candidates, Red Bull of course, but I think the list could be huge.  If the astronaut jumpsuits have so many patches they make those worn by Nascar drivers look tame, and the side of the launch vehicle looks like Times Square, so be it.  They should take every essential item on the trip and find a way to bid out the sponsorships.  While at it, sell the event just to one network, like the Super Bowl.  $1-10K to attend the launch?  That's a cheap to be part of history.

Buy any of these products and you will be helping send explorers to Mars!  I'm sure there are hundreds more.

$8M Water – Evian, Arrowhead, Aquafina, Dasani
$12M Beverages – Tang, Kool-Aid, CountryTime Lemonade, Hawaiian Punch, Gatorade…
$20M Energy Drink – Red Bull
$9M Dried Fruit – Del Monte, Dole, Sun-Maid, Ocean Spray…
$5M Cocoa – Swiss Miss, Ghiradelli, Hersheys…
$12M Coffee – Starbucks, Seattle’s Best, Yuban, Folgers…
$2M Condiments
$6M Crackers – Nabisco, Sunshine,
$25M Snacks – M&Ms, Reeses,
$8M Nuts – Planters, Fisher…
$3M Bread
$6M Tortillas
$15M Pizza – Pizza Hut, etc.

$15M – Astronaut Laptops
$5M Wheaties cover
$12M Streaming Movies – Netflix - keeping your astronauts entertained.

$5M Liquid Oxygen - Your explorers can't get off the ground without us.

$7M Lego (Make them edible)
$5M Video Game tie-in
$6M Camera Stills & Video

Tags: