Author Topic: Dennis Tito's Inspiration Mars Foundation Pre Announcement Thread  (Read 87768 times)

Offline rklaehn

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #220 on: 02/23/2013 11:10 AM »
I also think two astronauts would be streching it. A one-man mission should be feasible though.

I was about to say the same thing. Why is everyone assuming a two person crew?

Because two people is what has been proposed for the mission. Two people also will allow you to have one professional astronaut and one wealthy backer. Remember that the biggest hurdle for this mission is the funding.
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Offline rklaehn

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #221 on: 02/23/2013 11:18 AM »
A one-man mission should be feasible though.

Technically, yes, from from a human point of view that would be very challenging.  500 days is much longer than even non-stop solo circumnavigations (typically 10 months or less) or the longest solo stints in the polar regions (none I know of more than 12 months).

But a solo circumnavigation is much more stressful. You have to navigate through storms, perform exhausting physical activities, cope with sleep deprivation in time of bad weather etc.

In this mission you just have to stay alive, read your emails, and watch over the life support system.

Because ignoring basic requirments for volume is like ignoring requirements for consumables.

I don't think so. It is at least physically possible to survive in close space. See various third-world prisons.

Besides, there is a wide variety of medications available that can help with claustrophobia and other stresses. If you take medication against bone loss, why shouldn't you also take medication against claustrophobia? NASA would probably never allow mood-altering drugs for their astronauts. But why shoudn't a private mission do it if it increases the odds of success?
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Online KelvinZero

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #222 on: 02/23/2013 11:54 AM »
One person alone for this duration is uncharted territory for a complex missions.  One person is less likely to cope with technical problems than two.

Given all the money spent by NASA, im pretty annoyed that they didnt think of daring someone to sit in a box for 500 days :)

Has a "kissing orions" configuration been considered? That does seem a good way of increasing your redundancy without designing a new vehicle. And if they have a spat then they have their own rooms.

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #223 on: 02/23/2013 12:14 PM »
I don't know if its been considered officially but some of us have suggested similar - see higher up the thread.
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Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #224 on: 02/23/2013 12:17 PM »
Then two Dragons docked nose-to-nose - one is the Command & Earth re-entry vehicle, the other purely for Hab & Logistics (lots of Hi-density polyethylene for shielding, too). But both Dragons have 'Long Trunks' with that trunk space dedicated to being a service module; containing oxygen, nitrogen & water tanks, helium pressurization tanks, about six tons of hypergolic propellants and a single restartable engine. Dual Launch each vehicle on a Falcon Heavy (from two Pads, but what interval?) and directly to escape velocity on very similar trajectories. The two craft then rendezvous and dock nose-to-nose after discarding their Earth Departure stages.

On to a Mars Flyby...

Why two Dragons? A Bigelow BEAM module has lless than half the weigt, tremendously more space and even better radiation protection.

About the Crew. I may prefer to go alone than with another man. The Bigelow Module would give enough space though for some privacy. The idea of a woman seems appealing. But it should not be a life partner. Few partnerships could survive that challenge.

I don't believe a testrun on earth would give good clues for a single person or a two person team. Under the pressure of necessity during the flight the dynamics are totally different.

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #225 on: 02/23/2013 12:33 PM »
Bigelows have yet to be tested with human crews and their overall test program is painfully slow and drawn out - I don't know if anything significant can be finalized and declared operational with them in the fairly short time frame Mr Tito has. Although Dragon's haven't flown crew yet either - that part of their development is well underway. Also; borrowing from the 'kissing Orions' idea adds redundancy with two hulls, heatshields etc. Besides; 2x Dragons would offer the better part of 20 cubic meters of habitable volume - not bad for a crew of two.
« Last Edit: 02/23/2013 09:00 PM by MATTBLAK »
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #226 on: 02/23/2013 01:06 PM »
Four launches.

From the Cape:  Tito and friend in a Dragon Capsule and trunk with a logistics module behind it.

From Texas: logistics module, with possible lander.

From Vandenburg: 2 launches, one Falcon heavy with VASMIR engines and fuel, solar panels etc.  Two, Falcon XX with a BA3300 habitat module.

 Orbital rendezvous:  inflate BA3300, dock it to logistics module with optional lander attached, dock engines and fuel tank age to logistics module with optional lander, next, dock Dragon to other logistics module, then to BA3300 habitat.  Use any remaining stage, (such as the one attached to engine section, to give assembly initial boost towards the moon.  Detach stage, use both VASMIR engines and lunar gravity for initial TMI boost, (also, usable as final abort section, if needed) and begin mission.

40 days to Mars

Achieve orbit using Aero braking,  (about 10 days to establish orbit) detach lander and logistics module, (probably ought to swap places with Dragon craft and logistics module in assembly) detach logistics module from lander, deorbit logistics module for reentry to Mars surface.  Radio beacon activates upon logistics module landing, (possible inflatable habitat as part of logistics module?) Lander descends homing in on radio beacon.

Spend 400 days on Mars, or mix it up a bit before going down by visiting Phobos or Deimos first and spent a hundred days or so checking it out, then go to Mars.

Once Mars stay complete, launch ascent stage of lander to main craft.  Dock, transfer crew only!  Spend next 10 days housekeeping and checking craft out for return flight.

Refuel ascent stage either before or after TEI burn.  Once on the way back, detach ascent stage and use teleoperated equipment in ascent stage to examine samples brought up from Mars.  As long as suit locks only are used for EVAs on Mars, this should nearly eliminate any cross contamination of either Mars samples or crew.

Once approaching Earth, reattach the ascent stage to craft, then use gravity wells of Earth and moon, as well as far upper atmospheric Aero braking to achieve earth orbit.  Have a Send a seperate launch of hazmat rated reentry craft to collect samples from craft  and either take them to ISS for further study or to a category five clean room facility (yes, I know there are only four categories of clean room facilities according to the CDC, but a completely sealed environment should be established until the safety of the returned samples can be assured.

Note: same teleoperated equipment used on ascent stage of lander would also be used Mars side for initial studies of samples, while Mars side.  Reuse of equipment should ALWAYS be considered, if only to lower overall mission costs.

BA3300 has 3300 cubic meters of volume, even with a fly-by only mission, should be enough volume to keep everyone sane.
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #227 on: 02/23/2013 01:10 PM »
And sorry to be so pragmatic - but if one crew member died of a heart attack, stroke or whatever - then the remaining person could carry on the mission. But with a one person crew dying? No mission. But on a two person crew: what would they do with the body!!


Dinner.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #228 on: 02/23/2013 01:16 PM »
And sorry to be so pragmatic - but if one crew member died of a heart attack, stroke or whatever - then the remaining person could carry on the mission. But with a one person crew dying? No mission. But on a two person crew: what would they do with the body!!


Dinner.

I can just see it,

     "Yes, my poor deceased crew person was a person of exceptional taste... BURP!"


Jason
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Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #229 on: 02/23/2013 01:45 PM »
Four launches.

From the Cape:  Tito and friend in a Dragon Capsule and trunk with a logistics module behind it.

From Texas: logistics module, with possible lander.

From Vandenburg: 2 launches, one Falcon heavy with VASMIR engines and fuel, solar panels etc.  Two, Falcon XX with a BA3300 habitat module.

......................

BA3300 has 3300 cubic meters of volume, even with a fly-by only mission, should be enough volume to keep everyone sane.

And what would your proposal have to do with the planned mission? Yours may be how NASA would go about it. If they would draw a plan.


Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #230 on: 02/23/2013 01:46 PM »
And sorry to be so pragmatic - but if one crew member died of a heart attack, stroke or whatever - then the remaining person could carry on the mission. But with a one person crew dying? No mission. But on a two person crew: what would they do with the body!!


Dinner.

Did you read "The Martian"?

Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #231 on: 02/23/2013 01:50 PM »
     "Yes, my poor deceased crew person was a person of exceptional taste... BURP!"

Today's Inspiration Mars Journey Update was sponsored by Jack Link's Beef Jerky, mmmmmmm Beef Jerky!
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Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #232 on: 02/23/2013 02:14 PM »
Bigelows have yet to be tested with human crews and their overall test program is painfully slow and drawn out - I don't know if anything significant can be finalized and declared operational with them in the fairly short time frame Mr Tito has. Although Dragon's haven't flown crew yet either - that part of their development is well underway. Also; borrowing from the 'kissing Orions' idea adds redundancy with two hulls, heatshields etc. Besides; 2x Orions would offer the better part of 20 cubic meters of habitable volume - not bad for a crew of two.

NASA is going to put a BEAM on the ISS. They plan to keep it locked I know. What do you think testing is necessary? It is proven it stays airtight by the two test articles flown. The resistance against micrometeorites and radiation can be tested and is known to be better than the ISS modules presently flying, at least according to Bigelow.

For me that would be good enough.


Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #233 on: 02/23/2013 02:25 PM »
I think they should aim for a lunar orbit mission first. (assuming its manned). Mars is far too ambitious in the time frame.
However they may have something new. The press conference will tell.

Great party.  Sorry I'm late.

Of course, they should visit Luna first. There is something I'm not getting about this rash of announcements over the last few years.

inspirationmarsfoundation.org and .com were registered .. today .. by a norwegian fellow. Member of Mars expedition or fast domain name entrepreneurship?

Foundation was registered in Delaware end of january this year. So it looks like more like a domain grabber than someone involved. I'm sure, the foundation has already the domains they wanted.

Thanks for a bit of investigative journalism.

[That other poster is] making an absolutist comparison when a relative comparison is called for.

Bingo.

Would I take that ride to Mars with a 1% chance of death? Certainly yes.

I'm sure you would, but then, there's no shortage of unqualified volunteers.  OTOH, there is a shortage of qualified employees who could serve.

501 days? Levi's sponsorship? Remember, you heard it here first. ;)

And if they're four days late, they won't lose their sponsorship.

I am interested to learn what is so special with the 2018 date.

It is because of the planetary alignment, so you can do a free return flight.

something like in this picture.

There's no time frame on that picture.  Attached is a chart from HSMAD, showing the timeframe of a similar mission.

Larson & Pranke suggest 946 days, but hey:  I suppose they aren't the experts either.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline rklaehn

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #234 on: 02/23/2013 02:39 PM »
Quote
I am interested to learn what is so special with the 2018 date.

It is because of the planetary alignment, so you can do a free return flight.

something like in this picture.

There's no time frame on that picture.  Attached is a chart from HSMAD, showing the timeframe of a similar mission.

Larson & Pranke suggest 946 days, but hey:  I suppose they aren't the experts either.

That is for a mars surface mission, not a free return flyby.

The 2018 opportunity is special also because it is at the minimum of the solar cycle, so the likelihood of a solar flare is very much reduced.
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Offline simonbp

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #235 on: 02/23/2013 02:44 PM »
You can't just use a conjuction-class trajectory as the basis for this mission; those are based on minimizing the delta v to stop at Mars and get going again. This mission does not stop at Mars, and in fact gets a considerable gravity assist from the planet.

The tweets that Jon linked to here show the actual trajectory:

Just noticed this series of relevant tweets from Mike Loucks (a friend of mine who's one of the coauthors on the IEEE paper) describing the trajectory they're looking at a bit:

https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305154592260374528
https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305154592260374528/photo/1
https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305155051947708417
https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305155051947708417/photo/1
https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305155492009897986
https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305155492009897986/photo/1
https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305156162469376000
https://twitter.com/Astrogator_Mike/status/305156162469376000/photo/1

Basically no they're not doing a Venus swingby, but the perihelion almost gets down to Venus orbit.

~Jon
« Last Edit: 02/23/2013 02:49 PM by simonbp »

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #236 on: 02/23/2013 02:44 PM »

Would I take that ride to Mars with a 1% chance of death? Certainly yes.

I'm sure you would, but then, there's no shortage of unqualified volunteers.  OTOH, there is a shortage of qualified employees who could serve.

It's not about me voluteering. It was about a false analogy. And they would not send any employees but more likely the sponsors themselves would want to go. Or a sponsor teams up with someone who wants to go.

What qualifications do you deem necessary? Decent education and intelligence, good general health with the ability to adapt to microgravity (which would rule me out  :'(). You don't need a test pilot or astronaut or scientist.


Offline guckyfan

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #237 on: 02/23/2013 02:47 PM »
You can't just use a conjuction-class trajectory as the basis for this mission; those are based on minimizing the delta v to stop at Mars and get going again. This mission does not stop at Mars, and in fact gets a considerable gravity assist from the planet.

It is not a conjunction class trajectory but would not opportunities exist in the same rythm as conjunction class? It is just that 1018 provides an opportunity to do this kind of trajectory with lower delta-v or am I wrong?


Offline robert_d

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #238 on: 02/23/2013 03:24 PM »
As long as we are all brainstorming - what about a double (leg) amputee as one of the crew? Reduces the need for consumables and space while maintaining the intellectual and human aspects.  Would engage a whole segment of the population that might otherwise not take much notice.
Bob_D

Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #239 on: 02/23/2013 03:47 PM »
Reduces the need for consumables and space while maintaining ... the human aspects.

Let's go further than amputees, solve all the consumable and space issues and send dozens, maybe hundreds of people to participate in this voyage; Thermos full on frozen embryos.
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