Author Topic: Dennis Tito's Inspiration Mars Foundation Pre Announcement Thread  (Read 87624 times)

Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #160 on: 02/22/2013 04:16 PM »
It's either something like this (a space enthusiast billionaire like musk, bezos, ...) or nothing.

I hope for alternate options but fear you are right. Bezos might have deep enough pockets. I think some sort of govt(NASA) HSF BEO mission is likely during next decade, but unlikely Mars.

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People die all the time when skydiving, wingsuit flying, mountain climbing, etc. You don't see a huge public movement to outlaw these activities. Why should space be any different?

Your list contains activities of only leisure nature, personal thrills. There is no taxpayer funded multi-billion dollar/euro programs doing skydiving, or mountain climbing with ultimate goal of settlement on top of the mountain. But space is mostly about those expensive government programs and the perpetual question is how to justify them to Joe and possibly get Joe exited about them so that Joe might be willing to invest even more taxmoney on them. If things go south with highly publicized (it will get attention then) similar but private program wouldn't that have impact on Joe's willingness to fund related activities with his taxes.
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Offline simonbp

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #161 on: 02/22/2013 05:40 PM »
I hope for alternate options but fear you are right. Bezos might have deep enough pockets. I think some sort of govt(NASA) HSF BEO mission is likely during next decade, but unlikely Mars.

While 2018 is the best opportunity for a while, 2020 isn't bad either, so it's not impossible that an SLS/Orion could pull off something similar. But I agree it's unlikely.

It sounds like Paragon Space is the real driving force behind this, which is interesting. The two Paragon executives/cofounders at the press conference are also the two former Biosphere 2 crew members on the Paragon board. So, both experts and true-believers. And noone's going to break the seal on this mission...

Offline rklaehn

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #162 on: 02/22/2013 05:56 PM »
It's either something like this (a space enthusiast billionaire like musk, bezos, ...) or nothing.

I hope for alternate options but fear you are right. Bezos might have deep enough pockets. I think some sort of govt(NASA) HSF BEO mission is likely during next decade, but unlikely Mars.

There might also be some other very wealthy people in india or china of which we have never heard of.

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People die all the time when skydiving, wingsuit flying, mountain climbing, etc. You don't see a huge public movement to outlaw these activities. Why should space be any different?

Your list contains activities of only leisure nature, personal thrills. There is no taxpayer funded multi-billion dollar/euro programs doing skydiving, or mountain climbing with ultimate goal of settlement on top of the mountain. But space is mostly about those expensive government programs and the perpetual question is how to justify them to Joe and possibly get Joe exited about them so that Joe might be willing to invest even more taxmoney on them. If things go south with highly publicized (it will get attention then) similar but private program wouldn't that have impact on Joe's willingness to fund related activities with his taxes.

When aircraft were first developed, there were expensive government programs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langley_Aerodrome in competiton with private efforts that were on a shoestring budget and often got people killed. Should the private inventors have refrained from their efforts in order not to risk the public willingness to fund the government effort?

Besides, I don't think that a botched private mission would decrease the legitimacy of government funded spaceflight. They could point to the failed misson as proof that only government can do such things. A successful mission on the other hand would definitely decrease the public willingness to fund things like SLS and Orion.

Anyway, let's see if they have serious funding. We don't have to worry about somebody getting himself killed in space if they can't get there to begin with due to lack of funding...
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Offline strangequark

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #163 on: 02/22/2013 06:10 PM »
Question is will children be able to be taken along and, if so, what is the age cut off for travel? Could I be the first young mom space traveler with my son subsequently growing up on Mars?

I believe that they have announced that the minimum age for children allowed on this flight is 5. However, you could probably negotiate that. For instance, if you wanted to bring two 2-year-olds that might be allowable, although they would have to calculate the volume and mass required for diapers. However, as somebody else helpfully suggested here, one way to increase the available room inside the spacecraft is to tie things on the outside, so that might work too!

As for your second question, unfortunately, this mission will not land. But it would be a great way for kids to see Mars, which would inspire them to want to live on the planet when they are older. So why not contact the group and tell them about your situation and see what they say?

Watch out, lest you provide another demonstration of Poe's Law.

Offline muomega0

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #164 on: 02/22/2013 06:16 PM »
Free return--do not expect trips every 2 to 4 years.

Yes, this is almost certainly a one-off stunt, just to prove that it can be done.

The best comparison is maybe SpaceShipOne. It only flew to space a few times, the minimum number it needed to win the X Prize. But in the process, it proved that it could be done, and elevated commercial spaceflight from dreams to reality. Now, they sell tickets to space in Superbowl commercials, and SpaceShipOne hangs from the Smithsonian's ceiling.

Inspiration Mars has a chance to do something similar, but in an even more dramatic fashion. Unlike SpaceShipOne, this isn't just rehashing the 1960s, this is genuinely going where noone has gone before. Engage!

Spend $1-2B or more on this free return mission to prove something  *or* deploy a LEO depot to address one of the largest potential mass (cost) savings for BLEO exploration?

Offline apace

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #165 on: 02/22/2013 06:32 PM »
Spend $1-2B or more on this free return mission to prove something  *or* deploy a LEO depot to address one of the largest potential mass (cost) savings for BLEO exploration?

Depots are boring... what you can do with depots not. But let's do NASA this type of things.

Offline mrmandias

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #166 on: 02/22/2013 06:49 PM »
Spend $1-2B or more on this free return mission to prove something  *or* deploy a LEO depot to address one of the largest potential mass (cost) savings for BLEO exploration?

If it were purely taxpayer money, then maybe this would be relevant.  But if rich adventurers are chipping in their own money or getting sponsor money, then how can you or I criticize them for doing something splashy and adventurous?

Offline GalacticIntruder

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #167 on: 02/22/2013 06:50 PM »
People are going way too far with this possible fly by mission.

The number of humans that are capable, technically and mentally, of a 500 day mission in a tin can mission like this one, is minuscule.  This would be only for a select few, mainly previous astronauts. The average space enthusiast overestimates his capability. Lock yourself in a your closet (or storm shelter) for 500 days straight, and see if you can hack it.
« Last Edit: 02/22/2013 07:45 PM by GalacticIntruder »
Watch out for those pesky corners, they have teeth.

Offline simonbp

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #168 on: 02/22/2013 06:52 PM »
Depots are infrastruture, that's for governments and corporations. Noone builds a bridge to prove a point.

Offline R7

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #169 on: 02/22/2013 07:05 PM »
When aircraft were first developed, there were expensive government programs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langley_Aerodrome in competiton with private efforts that were on a shoestring budget and often got people killed. Should the private inventors have refrained from their efforts in order not to risk the public willingness to fund the government effort?

Quick googling told me that $50,000 in 1898 is about $1,3M in 2010 dollars. We are at least three orders of magnitude from space programs. And it was Army money, budget less connected to public opinions.

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Anyway, let's see if they have serious funding. We don't have to worry about somebody getting himself killed in space if they can't get there to begin with due to lack of funding...

So true. This must be some kind of record though, already 10+ pages of speculation and even the pretty web pages aren't out yet?
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Offline rklaehn

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #170 on: 02/22/2013 07:19 PM »
People are going way too far with this possible fly by mission.

The number of humans that are capable, technically and mentally, of a 500 day mission in a tin can mission like this one, is minuscule.  This would be only for select few, mainly previous astronauts. The average space enthusiast overestimates his capability. Lock yourself in a your closet (or storm shelter) for 500 days straight, and see if you can hack it.

Millions of average people have endured much worse during times of crisis in the last century without going insane. Prisoners in solitary confinement, soldiers in a trench in WWI, prisoners in the gulags, the list goes on and on. And most of those did not have a hero's welcome to look forward to.

There is a risk of a crew member developing psychological problems. But you could have some medication for such a case, and in any case it is less likely than other things that might go wrong, such as technical problems.
Try the ISS 3D visualization at http://www.heavens-above.com/ISS_3D.aspx

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #171 on: 02/22/2013 07:25 PM »
When aircraft were first developed, there were expensive government programs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langley_Aerodrome in competiton with private efforts that were on a shoestring budget and often got people killed. Should the private inventors have refrained from their efforts in order not to risk the public willingness to fund the government effort?

Quick googling told me that $50,000 in 1898 is about $1,3M in 2010 dollars. We are at least three orders of magnitude from space programs. And it was Army money, budget less connected to public opinions.
It was also not a government project. It was a project being done by a private group financed through a government grant.

Offline mike robel

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #172 on: 02/22/2013 07:56 PM »
For historical perspective, here is the Apollo Chain-ganged SIVB Mars flyback booster combination.  Its worth noting, I think if you fly by, your closest position to Marsis likely to be on the dark side as you whiz by...

Also a PDF describing the mission
« Last Edit: 02/22/2013 08:04 PM by mike robel »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #173 on: 02/22/2013 10:00 PM »
Its worth noting, I think if you fly by, your closest position to Mars is likely to be on the dark side as you whiz by...

"Likely"? I'd personally say "certainly".  That said, you'll still see a lot on the way in and out - a half-Mars with plenty of terminator features that would make for optimum photography.

Oh... and I'd ship a few penetrometers (expendable rocket-propelled core sampling probes) to fire into Phobos and Deimos.  I know that UKSpace is working on them for a lunar mission and they should work for the Martian moons, especially with a nearby orbiter to pick up the data.
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #174 on: 02/22/2013 10:05 PM »
I don't know about this...

     My gut instinct says that Tito et al are going to suprise the heck out of everyone.  I'm figuring that he's going to go for a fast flight, using a VASMIR or similar technology engine, land and return after a year or so on Mars.  501 days?  Let's assume an 80 day round trip.  That's still over 400 days that he could stay on Mars.

     Or, it could be a drop off of initial supplies for the Mars2020 group, using conventional rockets.  (Personally, I can't see Tito simply flying by Mars without landing.  It just wouldn't be right).

Jason
« Last Edit: 02/22/2013 10:06 PM by JasonAW3 »
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #175 on: 02/22/2013 10:14 PM »
Depots are infrastruture, that's for governments and corporations. Noone builds a bridge to prove a point.
;D

That painted a mental picture in my mind of someone getting into an internet argument then spending a billion dollars to flyby Mars just to "prove a point." (And, of course, it didn't change anyone's mind. ;))
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Online Zed_Noir

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #176 on: 02/22/2013 10:22 PM »
Had a thought about a hab module for this venture. You could use the Thales pressurized module for the Cygnus with some modifications. It could be carry inside an extended trunk attached to the upper stage. It adds about 18 cubic meters of storage with the smaller Cygnus PCM.

After the upper stage does the  Earth departure burn. Dragon detached from upper stage, stand off and turns around to docked with Thales module. Then the Dragon + module stack separates from the spended upper stage. Kind like the Apollo LEM extraction.


Offline ChuckC

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #177 on: 02/22/2013 11:07 PM »
Biggest issue and difficulty would probably be to not go insane out there all by myself during the loooooong trip...

A PlayStation and a good supply of games would might help there.

Offline ChuckC

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Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #178 on: 02/22/2013 11:14 PM »
  Sure it's dangerous.  But come on, what isn't?  Now don't jump on me as being insensitive but lets get real.  Last year in the US alone over 32000 people died just commuting in their autos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year).  That’s about 90 people per day.  And we are going to get all angsty if one or two don't make it in a LOC on a very adventurist mission?  If the chances of success were good I would give it a go!  We have become very risk adverse as a nation.  Yet we still do mountain climbing, skydiving, base jumping, etc. so what is wrong with a little bit of Mars fly-bying? 
Frankly even if it is a virtual suicide mission with less 1% chance of getting back alive if a couple of people want to do it I say go for it. Just make sure the legal liabilities are settled in advance. 

Offline RocketmanUS

Re: Inspiration Mars Foundation Press Conference
« Reply #179 on: 02/22/2013 11:48 PM »
Biggest issue and difficulty would probably be to not go insane out there all by myself during the loooooong trip...

A PlayStation and a good supply of games would might help there.
Oh, there is the sponsors, video game companies.
Their games played on the Mars flyby trip. ;D
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