Author Topic: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia  (Read 136743 times)

Offline MP99

Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #440 on: 02/22/2013 03:54 PM »

Offline go4mars

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #441 on: 02/22/2013 04:02 PM »
This:
Massive impact forming the Wilkes Land Crater in Antarctica
Could have been the cause of these:

- Eruption of the Siberian Traps.
- Major anoxic event in the oceans (possibly as a consequence of climate change)
- Vast release of H2S from oceans (probably a consequence of no. 2, anoxic situation and lots of dead organic stuff), leading to a poisoning of life on land
- Massive release of CH4 from methane clathrates in the ocean

It seems there were actually 3 extinction pulses, spread out over a total of 100'000 years...
IIRC that is based on just one site in Greenland, and is in dispute.  Though I won't discount the possibility.  For example, the big smack might have caused Siberian eruptions to commence, which happenned on their own good timing.  Not unlike a possible relationship between Deccan traps eruptions taking something like 30000 years after the Cretaceous impact(s). 
I don't know if anyone has studied the mechanism with any sense of conclusivity.

Or for example, the hot water didn't circulate to a deep area rich in clathrates until thousands of years after the event.    etc.
« Last Edit: 02/22/2013 04:07 PM by go4mars »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline smoliarm

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #442 on: 02/22/2013 04:03 PM »
Here I attach the map with details on Chelyabinsk meteorite damage and meteorite fragments recovery, compiled from reliable sources.

FIRST thing to note - very uneven character of the shock wave, almost lateral. Moreover, it is NOT symmetrical relative to the flightpath, nor does it follow the distance rule like nuke explosion wave:
The trajectory was approximately East to West, slightly to South from Korkino. However, town of Kopeisk suffered ~ twice more damage than Korkino, although it is some 30 km to the North.

Total amount of broken window glass > 150,000 m2
Chelyabinsk – 59%
Kopeisk – 24%
Korkino – 12%
Other sites – 5%

SECOND: meteorite fragments are already found in areas to the EAST of main explosion (#16 on map). This indicates that the fragmentation of original mass started very early, at least before the beginning of glowing part of the flight.

THIRD: The flight trajectory seems to be from ENE to WSW:
http://www.meteorites.ru/images/yuzhnouralsky2013/eumetsat_pulkovo_02.jpg
however, the recovered (or reported) falls seem to follow ESE - WNW path.

Offline Prober

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #443 on: 02/22/2013 04:10 PM »
Fiscal restraint, aka not making investments.

political statement without understanding.
 
Fiscal restraint = Control of spending (hard to put one out that can't be taken as political)
 
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I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Prober

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #444 on: 02/22/2013 04:13 PM »
You couldn't want to blast and create a debris field.

The advantage of cracking an incoming meteor is the smaller the bits, the higher up the bits breakup. Chelyabinsk was ~500 kt at ~30km, if it had been 500 kt at a couple of km the outcome would have been much more tragic. You still will have the same amount of energy released, it just be at a higher altitude. An end game that attempts to crack them just before entry could save lives from the 10m plus objects.

The perfect time to crack would be once entrance into the upper atmosphere.
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline spacermase

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #445 on: 02/22/2013 04:15 PM »




The suspects (who may all be guilty):
- Eruption of the Siberian Traps. One of the most massive volcanic events in the past billion years, released a lava flow that covered much of present Siberia, and probably dumped immense quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere. Mean global temperature probably rose by at least 10 degrees F due to this alone. These eruptions correlate very well with the first extinction pulse.

- Massive release of CH4 from methane clathrates in the ocean


From what Peter Ward has said, the Siberian Traps were unfortunately also located near massive coal fields (which, of course, also released massive amounts of CO2), and at least part of the volcanic field was near a shallow sea, so the lava flows may have touched off clathrate deposits directly.

It really was Murphy's law as applied to mass extinctions.

Offline go4mars

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #446 on: 02/22/2013 04:25 PM »
Fiscal restraint, aka not making investments.

political statement without understanding.
 
Fiscal restraint = Control of spending (hard to put one out that can't be taken as political)
 
I think it was intended as a humourous comment in the context of dinosaurs not building early warning systems for rogue asteroids.  Non-partisan and clever.
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline smoliarm

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #447 on: 02/22/2013 04:25 PM »
If anybody cares how it looks like, here it is, the dinosaur extinctor.

natural fragment
http://www.meteorites.ru/images/yuzhnouralsky2013/img_8525.jpg

cut and polished
http://www.meteorites.ru/images/yuzhnouralsky2013/img_0003.jpg

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #448 on: 02/22/2013 05:19 PM »
@Prober: (removed my message, better fit for private message) Suffice it to say I wasn't speaking without understanding.
« Last Edit: 02/22/2013 05:33 PM by Robotbeat »
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Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #449 on: 02/22/2013 05:48 PM »
ProjectB612: If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here.

Fornaro: If the dinosaurs trilobites had fiscal restraint, they'd still be here.

Fixed that for ya.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Antares

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #450 on: 02/23/2013 02:53 AM »
Lazy question as I ponder how to explain what caused the damage to non-techies:

What other natural phenomena (not man-triggered events) create airborne sonic shocks?
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #451 on: 02/23/2013 03:01 AM »
Lazy question as I ponder how to explain what caused the damage to non-techies:

What other natural phenomena (not man-triggered events) create airborne sonic shocks?
Volcanic activity.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Online Mongo62

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #452 on: 02/23/2013 03:31 AM »
What other natural phenomena (not man-triggered events) create airborne sonic shocks?
Lightning.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #453 on: 02/23/2013 11:53 AM »
Beans
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It's your med's!

Offline R7

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #454 on: 02/23/2013 12:33 PM »
Beans

I believe those produce choking flows, not choked flows  ;D
AD·ASTRA·ASTRORVM·GRATIA

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #455 on: 02/23/2013 01:07 PM »
Beans

I believe those produce choking flows, not choked flows  ;D

There went the coffee.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Zoomer30

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #456 on: 02/23/2013 05:52 PM »
When you consider that the Earth is about 70% water and 30% land, I feel that we dodged a major bullet that this object did not hold together and impact a large ocean (Pacific or Atlantic basin)

Have any calculations been made to try to predict what size of tsunami this kind of object would have produced? When you consider that a chunk of Hawaii falling into the ocean is suspected of triggering a "mega-tsunami" that deposited coral seafloor high on a cliff in Australia, I think this could have been much worse.
« Last Edit: 02/23/2013 05:53 PM by Zoomer30 »

Offline js117

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #457 on: 02/24/2013 03:07 AM »
When you consider that the Earth is about 70% water and 30% land, I feel that we dodged a major bullet that this object did not hold together and impact a large ocean (Pacific or Atlantic basin)

Have any calculations been made to try to predict what size of tsunami this kind of object would have produced? When you consider that a chunk of Hawaii falling into the ocean is suspected of triggering a "mega-tsunami" that deposited coral seafloor high on a cliff in Australia, I think this could have been much worse.

This Meteor was only 50 feet in diameter.

Offline Antares

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #458 on: 02/24/2013 04:57 AM »
Seriously, please understand the difference between shocks and sound waves or Mach waves.

Lightning is a hard sell, but it's accurate.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline rdale

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #459 on: 02/24/2013 06:48 AM »
And it wasn't that big when it landed. It would have made a little ripple or two in the middle of the ocean.

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