Author Topic: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia  (Read 136640 times)

Online ugordan

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #100 on: 02/15/2013 04:49 PM »
mmeijeri: How do you know they aren't "responding" and that they didn't take that possibility into account? "Significantly different trajectory" and noting the difference between one moving south->north and the other moving north->south.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2013 04:49 PM by ugordan »

Offline a_langwich

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #101 on: 02/15/2013 04:49 PM »
The meteorite didn't detonate.

What meteorite would? Are there left-over chunks of C4 from solar system formation up there, yikes  ;)

Frozen ice, methane/other hydrocarbon, rapidly heated.  Not sure what sorts of nitrogen-rich molecules are found across the solar system.

Offline mmeijeri

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #102 on: 02/15/2013 04:54 PM »
mmeijeri: How do you know they aren't "responding" and that they didn't take that possibility into account? "Significantly different trajectory" and noting the difference between one moving south->north and the other moving north->south.

I'm not saying they're not taking it into account, just that they're not explicitly saying so or referring to Jorge's argument, so we are still none the wiser.
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Online ugordan

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #103 on: 02/15/2013 04:58 PM »
It's a press release so going technical would just be going over everyone's head. But let's take this north-south thing further. The way I see it, 2012 DA12 would have to be traveling more or less along the plane of the equator and moving north to be able to be bent "downward" south over Russia. However, the trajectory outlined here http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fcxyLhyuZTc/T15j_Ne1P6I/AAAAAAAABB0/7snMQ6fO6G0/s1600/asteroida.png suggests it's coming in practically pole-to-pole. I see no way to make that trajectory into a north-south one matching this event. YMMV.

Offline R7

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #104 on: 02/15/2013 04:58 PM »
Thanks Smoliarm, interesting info!

But I just realized something depressing; this event will refuel belief in Nibiru  :-[
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Offline R7

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #105 on: 02/15/2013 05:01 PM »
The way I see it, 2012 DA12 would have to be traveling more or less along the plane of the equator and moving north to be able to be bent "downward" south over Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_DA14

Quote
Inclination    10.33°

Not travelling pole to pole, the image you posted seems to be from raised angle.

edit:

« Last Edit: 02/15/2013 05:03 PM by R7 »
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Offline mmeijeri

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #106 on: 02/15/2013 05:02 PM »
It's a press release so going technical would just be going over everyone's head.

I'm still curious...

Quote
But let's take this north-south thing further. The way I see it, 2012 DA12 would have to be traveling more or less along the plane of the equator and moving north to be able to be bent "downward" south over Russia. However, the trajectory outlined here http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fcxyLhyuZTc/T15j_Ne1P6I/AAAAAAAABB0/7snMQ6fO6G0/s1600/asteroida.png suggests it's coming in practically pole-to-pole. I see no way to make that trajectory into a north-south one matching this event. YMMV.

My understanding of B-plane targeting is hazy and rusty, but I thought a small nudge at sufficient distance could rotate the Earth-centered plane of an object to basically any orientation. Is that wrong?
« Last Edit: 02/15/2013 05:03 PM by mmeijeri »
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Offline yg1968

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #107 on: 02/15/2013 05:03 PM »
NASA Media Channel is answering questions. Seems like they're very unorganized right now. Can only hear half of the conversations (can only hear responses no media questions).

They also seem to be forgetting to turn off the audio channel when they blacked out the screen. Someone asked him offscreen "White house wants more information." Jim Garvin: "Tell them to turn on the damn TV."

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nasa-media-channel

That's funny!

Online ugordan

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #108 on: 02/15/2013 05:04 PM »
Quote
Inclination    10.33°

Not travelling pole to pole, the image you posted seems to be from raised angle.

That's the heliocentric orbit parameter. Says nothing about the geometry of the Earth flyby.


Offline R7

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #109 on: 02/15/2013 05:08 PM »
That's the heliocentric orbit parameter. Says nothing about the geometry of the Earth flyby.

Huh, we know Earth's inclination and axial tilt. That tell's something.
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Online Robotbeat

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #110 on: 02/15/2013 05:23 PM »
This building was (partially) destroyed by the blast:
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #111 on: 02/15/2013 05:27 PM »
Doesn't a rock of several meters show up on USSTRATCOM screens well before it hits the atmosphere? Or russian equivalent agency?

Remember they are looking for ICBM's and maybe stuff in orbit, so there is a limit to how high and how often they may or may not be looking. If it came in at 15 km a second (could be faster), and lets just guess for hand waving and ignore the angle it came in at and they only look up to a made up number of  600km well it would have been on the screens for only 40 seconds. Enough time to soil one's boxers, but not enough to do much else.

The flight times of ICBM's means you don't have to ping every bit of bit of space several times a second, but once every couple of seconds in the general direction you think they are coming from.

Though to be fair coming from the north east like it did does make one gut check to see if the US lobbed an ICBM ;)
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Offline R7

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #112 on: 02/15/2013 05:30 PM »
op-ed on CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/15/opinion/meteors-colin-stuart-oped/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Quote
Meteor shows why it is crucial to keep an eye on the sky


edit: kevin-rf

Quote
600km well it would have been on the screens for only 40 seconds

Yeah, didn't mean as in time to give any warning but have that 40 seconds or even less actual recorded accurate trajectory to compute where it came from instead of estimating from dashboard cam videos.

Quote
Though to be fair coming from the north east like it did does make one gut check to see if the US lobbed an ICBM

As already said lucky the cold war is over, and looney like Zhirinowski isn't in power.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2013 05:36 PM by R7 »
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Offline psloss

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #113 on: 02/15/2013 05:42 PM »
NASA Media Channel is answering questions. Seems like they're very unorganized right now. Can only hear half of the conversations (can only hear responses no media questions).

They also seem to be forgetting to turn off the audio channel when they blacked out the screen. Someone asked him offscreen "White house wants more information." Jim Garvin: "Tell them to turn on the damn TV."

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nasa-media-channel
That's normal usage -- the Media Channel is for larger television-oriented media organizations that can pull feeds directly from satellite (like I think KGW-TV did on the morning of the LDCM launch).  Those orgs usually don't need to get their side of these interviews.

The original topic for the morning satellite block was the 2012 DA-14 flyby; however, interest in this event is much higher.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #114 on: 02/15/2013 05:47 PM »
This building was (partially) destroyed by the blast:

Not sure, I saw one pic on rt where a large amount of black smoke was coming out of. I wildly speculate and wonder if it took a direct hit...
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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #115 on: 02/15/2013 05:48 PM »
Live updates:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/15/meteorite-explodes-over-russian-urals-live-updates

Incredibly surreal event. All of a sudden, all eyes are on space...
« Last Edit: 02/15/2013 05:50 PM by Robotbeat »
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Offline mmeijeri

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #116 on: 02/15/2013 05:51 PM »
Not sure, I saw one pic on rt where a large amount of black smoke was coming out of. I wildly speculate and wonder if it took a direct hit...

It seemed to coincide almost exactly with the blast wave, so maybe the blast wave triggered some sort of explosion.
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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #117 on: 02/15/2013 05:59 PM »
This whole event is incredibly surreal. This is a once-in-a-lifetime event with unbelievable coincidence of a near-miss by a much larger asteroid. The eyes of the world are on space right now.
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Offline mlindner

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Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #118 on: 02/15/2013 06:00 PM »
Live updates:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/15/meteorite-explodes-over-russian-urals-live-updates

Incredibly surreal event. All of a sudden, all eyes are on space...

Re-linking this image, has a lot of details on the paths of the meteroite and DA14.
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Offline Hodapp

Re: Meteor Strikes Chelyabinsk, Russia
« Reply #119 on: 02/15/2013 06:01 PM »
This whole event is incredibly surreal. This is a once-in-a-lifetime event with unbelievable coincidence of a near-miss by a much larger asteroid. The eyes of the world are on space right now.

Yeah, maybe NASA should take a page from the political power in charge and not waste a "crisis"!
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