Author Topic: How would Russia go to the moon?  (Read 165889 times)

Offline Danderman

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #400 on: 02/20/2016 12:17 AM »
Overview of robotic lunar and Mars plans:

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Russia_plans_return_to_Mars_Moon_despite_money_woes_999.html



"scientists have new hope of again sending missions to the Moon and to Mars."

It's those Russian scientists again, always right around the corner from sending people to Mars.
« Last Edit: 02/20/2016 12:18 AM by Danderman »

Offline savuporo

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #401 on: 03/20/2016 05:56 PM »
So it appears with the recent news of 30% cut to the Roscosmos budget the answer to the original title of this thread becomes "With a functioning economy"
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Blackstar

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #402 on: 03/29/2016 01:40 PM »
This presentation from Friday is mostly about planetary protection. But it includes a slide about the Russian robotic lunar program.

Offline josespeck

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #403 on: 12/19/2017 03:24 PM »
I thought this proposal was pretty good. Only two 40 t launches. Their lander seems pretty light. Only 11.5 t compared to 15 t for the Apollo LM.

http://en.spacelin.ru/moon-seven/presentation/
40 tones is a "right value" of LEO payload for Dual Launch Architecture. Considering that original Angara A5V proposal started from 35 tones of payload, then it had been increased to 37-38 tones, I would not be surprised if LV eventually would "grow" and reach 40 tones.

Spacelin has been purchased by Galaktika.
Alia Prokofieva, owner and president of Galaxy Group of Companies.
Quote
...we abandoned the fuel delivery system to the engine, choosing instead an electric pump...
our New Zealand colleagues from RocketLab not so long ago tested their carrier rocket Electron, equipped with electric pumps, thereby proving the operability of this solution.
...during the development it became obvious that the available batteries for electric pumps are too heavy.

Anyone can mount rockets with electric pumps without paying patents to Rocketlab?.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 03:27 PM by josespeck »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #404 on: 12/25/2017 05:33 PM »


Quote
Луноход: возвращение

Published on 25 Dec 2017
  Земляне планируют вернуться на Луну. Возможно, Роскосмос и НАСА, используя опыт Аполлонов и автоматических Луноходов, будут работать совместно.

Google translate:

Quote
Lunokhod: Return

Earthlings plan to return to the moon. Perhaps Roskosmos and NASA, using the experience of the Apollo and the automatic Lunokhods, will work together.
« Last Edit: 12/25/2017 05:36 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #405 on: 12/26/2017 07:24 PM »
Some screen grabs. Looks like the large lander also performs LOI with Federatsiya, like in Constellation. Obligatory Lunar base included! Looks like the artist just copied the ISS configuration for a new space station.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #406 on: 01/28/2018 07:38 AM »
Some screen grabs. Looks like the large lander also performs LOI with Federatsiya, like in Constellation. Obligatory Lunar base included! Looks like the artist just copied the ISS configuration for a new space station.
Steven, those are fantasies from animation company that were made for a Roscosmos documentary.
"The real McCoy" are below (slides from Chief Designer of RKK Energia Evgeniy Mikrin presentation on Annual Korolev Readings on 23th of January 2018)
« Last Edit: 01/28/2018 07:58 AM by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #407 on: 01/28/2018 07:45 AM »
A title slide of my presentation for February meeting of the Space Association of Australia. 
Stay tuned :)
« Last Edit: 01/28/2018 08:00 AM by fregate »
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #408 on: 01/29/2018 04:16 AM »
Looking at the schedule. Not sure what the difference is between BP and PP. STK has three cores and STK1 has six cores. Soyuz-5, STK and STK1 LEO payloads are 17, 50 and 88 t, respectively. Federatsiya LEO is 14.4 t, Federatsiya Lunar is 20 t and LVPK Lunar lander is 27 t.

2022 Soyuz-5 BP1 (Federatsiya LEO test flight)
2023 Soyuz-5 BP2 (Federatsiya to ISS)
2024 Soyuz-5 PP1 (Federatsiya to ISS)
2027 STK BP3 (Federatsiya to DSG)
2027 STK PP2 (Federatsiya to DSG)
2028 STK1 BP (LVPK to LEO)
2028 STK1 BP4 (Federatsiya to Lunar orbit)
2029 STK1 BP (LVPK to Lunar orbit)
2029 STK1 PP3 (Federatsiya to Lunar orbit)
2030 STK1 BP (LVPK to Lunar orbit, first crewed landing)
2030 STK1 PP4 (Federatsiya to Lunar orbit)
« Last Edit: 01/29/2018 04:18 AM by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #409 on: 05/02/2018 05:49 AM »
Here's a video that contains those screen grabs. Not sure what the difference is between BP and PP missions.

Looks like the LVPK Lunar module will come in two versions. The first version will mass 20 t, carry 2 crew, return 100 kg and last 3 days on Lunar surface. The second version will mass 27 t, carry 4 crew, return 625 kg and last 14 days on the Lunar surface. STK II will probably be used for this second version.

It doesn't look like the DSG (LOP-G) is used for the actual landing missions.

Acronyms
PTK  Federatsiya
MKS  International Space Station
LVPK Lunar module
KVTK Hydrolox upper stage
DM   Kerolox upper stage
STK  Heavy lift launch vehicle
DSG  Deep Space Gateway

 
Missions
2022 Soyuz-5 Federatsiya (BP1, LEO)
2024 Soyuz-5 Federatsiya (BP2, ISS)
2025 Soyuz-5 Federatsiya (PP1, ISS)
2027 STK     Federatsiya (BP3, ISS?)
2027 STK     Federatsiya (PP2, DSG)
2028 STK I   LVPK (BP, LEO?)
2028 STK I   Federatsiya (BP4, LLO)
2029 STK I   LVPK (BP, 15 km perilune?)
2029 STK I   Federatsiya (PP3, LLO)
2030 STK I   LVPK (BP, first crewed landing)
2030 STK I   Federatsiya (PP4, LLO)


Launch Vehicles
Soyuz-5 17 t RD-171M + RD-0124M + DM
STK     50 t 3xRD-171M + RD-0124M + 2xDM
STK I   88 t 6xRD-171M + RD-0124M + KVTK + DM
STK II 115 t 6xRD-171M + H2/O2 Stage 2 + H2/O2 Stage 3


« Last Edit: 05/03/2018 06:05 AM by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline TorenAltair

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #410 on: 05/02/2018 11:58 AM »
MKS might be derived from the freeflying lab they are developing and can be docked to the ISS, the Oka-T-MKS.
« Last Edit: 05/02/2018 11:59 AM by TorenAltair »

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #411 on: 05/03/2018 03:14 AM »
MKS might be derived from the freeflying lab they are developing and can be docked to the ISS, the Oka-T-MKS.
Please do not confuse everybody MKS is ISS in Russian (Mezhdunarodnaja Kosmicheskaya Stantsiya/Международная Космическая Станция)
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline fregate

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #412 on: 05/03/2018 03:20 AM »
Here's a video that contains those screen grabs. We have BP and PP missions. PP missions consist of PTK and MKS elements. I believe MKS is a mission module that allows operation in low Lunar orbit (LLO).

Looks like the LVPK Lunar module will come in two versions. The first version will mass 20 t, carry 2 crew, return 100 kg and last 3 days on Lunar surface. The second version will mass 27 t, carry 4 crew, return 625 kg and last 14 days on the Lunar surface. STK II will probably be used for this second version.

It doesn't look like the DSG is used for the actual landing missions.

Acronyms
PTK  Federatsiya
MKS  Service Module?
LVPK Lunar module
KVTK Hydrolox upper stage
DM   Kerolox upper stage
STK  Heavy lift launch vehicle
DSG  Deep Space Gateway

 
Missions
2022 Soyuz-5 Federatsiya (BP1, LEO)
2024 Soyuz-5 Federatsiya (BP2, ISS)
2025 Soyuz-5 Federatsiya (PP1, ISS)
2027 STK     Federatsiya (BP3, ISS?)
2027 STK     Federatsiya (PP2, DSG)
2028 STK I   LVPK (BP, LEO?)
2028 STK I   Federatsiya (BP4, LLO)
2029 STK I   LVPK (BP, 15 km perilune?)
2029 STK I   Federatsiya (PP3, LLO)
2030 STK I   LVPK (BP, first crewed landing)
2030 STK I   Federatsiya (PP4, LLO)


Launch Vehicles
Soyuz-5 17 t RD-171M + RD-0124M + DM
STK     50 t 3xRD-171M + RD-0124M + 2xDM
STK I   88 t 6xRD-171M + RD-0124M + KVTK + DM
STK II 115 t 6xRD-171M + H2/O2 Stage 2 + H2/O2 Stage 3



MOB-KVTK is Hydrolox space tug
MOB-DM is Kerolox space tug
Both are man-rated and slightly different from baseline space tugs KVTK (Khrunichev) and Block-DM (Energia) to be used /used  for cargo (mostly GEO/GTO) missions
DSG is already rechristened to LOP-G by NASA :)
Federatsiya is an official name of spacecraft developed within New Generation Manned Transportation Vehicle PTK NP  Program
STK Phase II ha been beefed up to 130 tones Stage II and III to be propelled by RD-0150 engines   
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Online Olaf

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Re: How would Russia go to the moon?
« Reply #413 on: 05/04/2018 05:08 PM »
https://sputniknews.com/science/201805041064139106-russia-cosmonaut-moon/
Russian Cosmonaut Could Fly to Moon for 1st Time Aboard US Spacecraft - Source

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