Elon Musk at the 15th Annual International Mars Society Convention

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Author Topic: Elon Musk at the 15th Annual International Mars Society Convention  (Read 18967 times)
Hernalt
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« Reply #165 on: 08/19/2012 08:15 AM »

The video provided Elon Musk's answer: a fully reusable Earth-to-Mars transportation system. Presumably with a whole lot of traffic. :)
What is the best reusable nuclear option?
Is LANTR a reusable option?
Would LANTR trade well if launching from EML2?
A_M_Swallow
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« Reply #166 on: 08/19/2012 10:03 PM »

They may need to reduce the number of different chip types by standardisation.  Use the same power electronics in both cars and lifts.  A single type of microprocessor could be used, possible with more than one make.  EEPROMs can be made on Earth but blown on Mars allowing customising of the circuits.

FPGAs would be an answer to that.

Also keep in ming not too long ago we built computers from mostly standardized components such as logic chips and even discrete transistors.
If you end up needing to make everything on Mars one could return to older technology.
{snip}

As for displays VFDs and CRTs probably could be manufactured from native materials or DLPs chips shipped in from Earth.
You could carry hundreds maybe even thousands of DLP chips for the same mass as one large screen LCD.

These days you can get FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Arrays) with built in microprocessors.  See EETimes Article
"Xilinx puts ARM core into its FPGAs"
Rich Nass
4/27/2010 5:00 PM EDT
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-products/processors/4115523/Xilinx-puts-ARM-core-into-its-FPGAs


As for displays try saving weight by using laser projectors
http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/eb43
docmordrid
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« Reply #167 on: 08/19/2012 10:52 PM »

Not only laser projection, but printed screens made using organic inks or quantum dots.
dcporter
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« Reply #168 on: 08/20/2012 01:31 PM »

Agreed that advanced Mars Colony concepts are off-topic, while advanced concepts which speak to how you get to Mars for $500,000 are on-topic.  Robotbeat, solid thought experiment.

I doubt anyone will pay $500k to move to Mars if there isn't a safe, comfortable and practical colony there.  ;)

Yes, and it's all less likely to happen if humans turn out to not react well to mars-level gravity, so let's discuss that too. ::)

Everything is related yet some things are off topic.

[Edited to swap out "related" example, in response to Dave G completely missing my point.]
Dave G
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« Reply #169 on: 08/20/2012 10:12 PM »

Yes, and it's all less likely to happen if Chairman Wolf cancels commercial crew, so let's discuss that too. ::)

How would that work, exactly?  Can NASA renegue on thier $440 million contract with SpaceX?  If SpaceX demonstrates commercial crew by 2015, would NASA reject this use Russian rockets instead?
JohnFornaro
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« Reply #170 on: 08/22/2012 06:21 PM »

How about this... Mars: Tax Haven.

All the billionaires will move there for the tax dodge.

If the billionaire converts their wealth into dollar bills and carries them on their spacecraft to Mars, about their only use would be to burn them for warmth when they get there.

Money left in bank accounts on Earth will be subject to the taxes of the jurisdiction of that bank.

Those billionaires will also need to pay large "fees" to support the infrastructure that keeps them alive and supplied. Though not truly taxes, they might as well be.

cheers, Martin

Hard to imagine such practical types as these rich folk wanting to leave it all for the colony.  NSoV, as usual.

The speculation of $500K one way tickets could work, I imagine, if there is two way traffic.  Ya go, ya stay for a couple of years, ya come back.  But the larger issue of growing an economy strikes me as interesting.

So.  You preposition two years of supplies for the first four or six one way candidates, promising them that you'll be back.  Up there it would be a barter economy geared to survival only.  Every two years another four, six, eight, dozen or so people would show up.  I could see a yearly launch rate of low energy robotic supply missions which would start making the long term survivability of the colonly more and more feasible with each successful landing.

Eventually, that one billionaire who wants to get away from it all shows up, since survival rates would have been demonstrated.  What will he pay some of the other colonists to wait on him hand and foot? How would that economy grow from a bartering of services and common ownership of real property and infrastructure?  At what point can there be differentiation of labor, where garden duties can be traded for mining duties, or rover repair duties?  Since there will be some labor specialization already, like the rover repair guy and the gardener gal, how would the labor exchange rate be determined?  At what point do they start xeroxing money and IOU's?
Robotbeat
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« Reply #171 on: 08/22/2012 09:20 PM »

There'd likely be some kind of currency, though it may work a little differently. Bartering isn't as efficient. But if you aren't careful managing the money supply, you can have problems with currency as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Babysitting_Co-op#Cooperative_system_and_history

But anyway. Getting a little far afield. Technically, Musk has been focusing more on the transportation problem, not the colony itself. Heck, I believe that originally he meant for the $500k ticket price to be for a round-trip ticket, not a one-way.
BobCarver
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« Reply #172 on: 08/22/2012 09:58 PM »

No, that was always meant to be for a one-way ticket.
Robotbeat
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« Reply #173 on: 08/22/2012 10:35 PM »

No, that was always meant to be for a one-way ticket.
Citation needed.
Jorge
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« Reply #174 on: 08/22/2012 10:54 PM »

Yes, and it's all less likely to happen if Chairman Wolf cancels commercial crew, so let's discuss that too. ::)

How would that work, exactly?  Can NASA renegue on thier $440 million contract with SpaceX?

All government contracts are contingent on future Congressional appropriation of funding, and no government contract can bind a future Congress. If the appropriation doesn't happen, NASA can terminate the agreement unilaterally and that is not called "reneging"; the provision is written into the contract itself.

Read the Space Act Agreement between NASA and SpaceX:

http://commercialcrew.nasa.gov/document_file_get.cfm?docid=633

paying particular attention to Article 16.D.(1).(c), and Article 23.

All the Space Act Agreements (*all* government contracts, actually) have such a provision written into them.
BobCarver
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« Reply #175 on: 08/22/2012 11:24 PM »

No, that was always meant to be for a one-way ticket.
Citation needed.
The first time Musk mentioned this idea, he said it was specifically a one-way trip. If you have a reference to it being round-trip, the onus is on you to provide a citation, not me.
Robotbeat
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« Reply #176 on: 08/23/2012 02:06 AM »

No, that was always meant to be for a one-way ticket.
Citation needed.
The first time Musk mentioned this idea, he said it was specifically a one-way trip. If you have a reference to it being round-trip, the onus is on you to provide a citation, not me.
Well, I remember him specifically talking about it being two-way for the 500k figure, and don't remember the one-way trip part except for him talking about his retirement. The onus is on you. ;)

(Or rather, the onus is equally on both of us, since we just have your word vs mine.)
dcporter
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« Reply #177 on: 08/23/2012 02:09 AM »

An onus on both your houses
Robotbeat
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« Reply #178 on: 08/23/2012 02:21 AM »

An onus on both your houses
LOL.

Ok, ok. Here we are:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/03/elon-musk-says-ticket-to-mars-will-cost-500000/

"“Land on Mars, a round-trip ticket — half a million dollars. It can be done,” he told the BBC."
QuantumG
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« Reply #179 on: 08/23/2012 02:35 AM »

I think he initially was reluctant about return trips but has since changed his mind.. it is a reusable system after all.
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