Author Topic: Cygnus return capability  (Read 29929 times)

Offline krytek

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #20 on: 07/08/2012 09:47 PM »
Thank you  :)
I think that's at most around twice the landing speed of Soyuz, I think that's survivable.

Online douglas100

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #21 on: 07/09/2012 08:49 PM »
that was only a sounding rocket flight

I am not an aerodynamicist, but reentry from a sub-orbital trajectory is not necessarily easier than reentry from LEO. (AIUI this is one of the issues that can lead to "black zones" for some ascent trajectories.) If the descent is too steep the vehicle gets to thicker atmosphere with high velocity, whereas if the descent is nearly circular the vehicle can lose enough velocity in thin upper atmosphere and survive the thick atmosphere heating.

It's true that you could have very high heating rates during a steep entry. In the paper that krytek cites, IRVE-4 reaches about mach 9 which is roughly 12% of orbital energy. If it were returning from LEO it would have to dissipate almost eight times the amount of heat. So there is difficult and there is difficult.

But the bottom line is that it is doable. It is a very promising technology.
Douglas Clark

Offline mr. mark

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #22 on: 07/23/2012 05:06 PM »
A successful test of the technology that Orbital is considering using for Cygnus down mass return was carried out today.

"WALLOPS ISLAND, Va. -- A large inflatable heat shield developed by NASA's Space Technology Program has successfully survived a trip through Earth's atmosphere while travelling at hypersonic speeds up to 7,600 mph".

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/jul/HQ_12-250_IRVE-3_Launch.html



« Last Edit: 07/23/2012 05:33 PM by mr. mark »

Offline manboy

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #23 on: 07/23/2012 05:25 PM »
Orbital is considering this technology for Cygnus down mass return.

"WALLOPS ISLAND, Va. -- A large inflatable heat shield developed by NASA's Space Technology Program has successfully survived a trip through Earth's atmosphere while travelling at hypersonic speeds up to 7,600 mph".

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/jul/HQ_12-250_IRVE-3_Launch.html




We know. That's what was being discussed above.
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Offline hutchel

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #24 on: 07/23/2012 08:12 PM »
So the question becomes is this more economical than a traditional ablative system.  Seems to be pretty heavy - also how much volume would it take up - To return a Cygnus capsule intact.  I understand that weight inside the capsule/ module matters - but let's just pick a reasonable weight for the stuff that normally wants to be returned from the ISS.  We have some pretty good data from the shuttle days with the Logistics modules.

Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 07/23/2012 08:44 PM by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #26 on: 07/23/2012 08:22 PM »
So the question becomes is this more economical than a traditional ablative system.  Seems to be pretty heavy - also how much volume would it take up - To return a Cygnus capsule intact.  I understand that weight inside the capsule/ module matters - but let's just pick a reasonable weight for the stuff that normally wants to be returned from the ISS.  We have some pretty good data from the shuttle days with the Logistics modules.

It's a technology being designated mostly for Mars. From the link in my post above:

Quote
The HIAD could give NASA more options for future planetary missions, because it could allow spacecraft to carry larger, heavier scientific instruments and other tools for exploration.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2012 08:34 PM by yg1968 »

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #27 on: 07/23/2012 09:15 PM »
It'd allow you to have basically an unlimited size heat shield. Even with a typical 5 meter fairing, you could have, say, a 25 meter diameter heat shield for Mars entry. That's good enough for big pieces of a Mars base or a fully pre-fueled hypergolic Mars ascent vehicle.
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Offline Burninate

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #28 on: 07/13/2014 10:23 PM »
While it's forum necromancy, this is precisely the correct thread to ask in:

Any idea what happened to HEART?  IRVE-3 seems to have gone off without a hitch, it was supposed to be followed by IRVE-4 and HEART, and presumably adoption of Cygnus as a routine return vehicle.
« Last Edit: 07/13/2014 10:57 PM by Burninate »

Offline manboy

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #29 on: 10/09/2014 10:15 PM »
It looks like HEART (10 m) may still be planned, but first they want to fly THOR (3.7 m) which reuses a lot of hardware from IRVE-3 (3 m).

Hypersonic Inflatable Aerodynamic Decelerator (HIAD) Technology Development Overview (Summer 2013?)

Planned Flight of the Terrestrial HIAD Orbital Reentry (16 June 2014)
« Last Edit: 10/09/2014 11:03 PM by manboy »
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Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #30 on: 10/10/2014 07:02 AM »
Thanks Manboy for the article.

They are looking at testing on Antares 2nd stage, there wasn't a time mention but I get the impression it is with in a year or two.

There was also mention of using a F9 1st and 2nd stages, I would imagine SpaceX would be happy to test it on their 2nd stage. Besides acting as a heatshield it would also greatly reduce the lower atomsphere speed. Bonus, heatshield and small parachute in one.

Not sure it would be practical for returning Cygnus but it would make a great test bed as it also has built in thrusters for stability control.

Offline manboy

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #31 on: 10/10/2014 05:14 PM »
They are looking at testing on Antares 2nd stage, there wasn't a time mention but I get the impression it is with in a year or two.
THOR's flight is planned for 2016.

I don't think this aligns with SpaceX's recovery vision. But it could be used to make Cygnus recoverable. You could also possibly launch these in Dragon's trunk to recover larger payloads.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2014 05:16 PM by manboy »
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline jbenton

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #32 on: 01/11/2017 05:39 AM »
Any news on THOR or HEART or anything related to HIAD-Cygnus? It would go a long way in addressing the problem highlighted in this article:

http://spacenews.com/space-manufacturing-and-the-last-mile/

It would certainly be worth it for NASA to fund this project. Opening up the space manufacturing sector would have a huge return on investment for the taxpayer dollar.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #33 on: 01/11/2017 08:02 AM »
ULA with NASA help plan to do a demo as secondary payload on Centuar. ULA need for SMART and NASA needs it for Mars.
If OA wanted try it with Cygnus NASA would surely help, not sure if OA would be allowed access to ULA test results.

Offline Hog

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #34 on: 01/16/2017 03:01 PM »
IRVE-3 video
Paul

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #35 on: 01/20/2017 03:48 AM »
Not much new.

THOR - Terrestrial HIAD Orbital Reentry:
Quote
The project, which is led by NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, for the Space Technology Mission Directorate, will use existing hardware and launch as a secondary payload on a cargo resupply flight to the International Space Station. The demonstration flight is targeted for September 2016 on an Antares rocket from Wallops Flight Facility on the Eastern Shore of Virginia.

This illustrates the mission better:


THOR is basically an orbital velocity test with better recoverability.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #36 on: 01/20/2017 05:22 AM »
OK, September is right in the middle of OA-8 on 6 July and OA-9 on 17 November. Can anybody clarify this?
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Offline rayleighscatter

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #37 on: 01/20/2017 08:51 PM »
OK, September is right in the middle of OA-8 on 6 July and OA-9 on 17 November. Can anybody clarify this?
I'm pretty sure the HIAD info is out of date.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #38 on: 01/21/2017 03:42 AM »
This test may switch to ULA as they want to test HIAD in partnership with NASA. Plan is similar demo secondary payload on Centuar. ULA need to prove it for their SMART system.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Cygnus return capability
« Reply #39 on: 01/21/2017 08:31 AM »
I'm pretty sure the HIAD info is out of date.

That's what I figured as well. I've nominally placed THOR with OA-9, but that is only an educated guess. Still hoping someone can clarify that.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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