Author Topic: EM Drive Developments Thread 1  (Read 763240 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #220 on: 08/06/2014 09:20 PM »

I really don't know about him/her. Maybe someone who has been here longer can elucidate?
I seem to remember a thread title being "....... (GIThruster, now banned.)....."
Anyway, it doesn't really matter. The thread you linked was interesting but was more full of vitriol than science and reason. IMHO

I didn't like the personal vitriol posted in it but felt the thread illustrated what I was talking about last night as regards some of the extreme responses to this particular topic.

Offline IslandPlaya

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #221 on: 08/06/2014 09:24 PM »

I really don't know about him/her. Maybe someone who has been here longer can elucidate?
I seem to remember a thread title being "....... (GIThruster, now banned.)....."
Anyway, it doesn't really matter. The thread you linked was interesting but was more full of vitriol than science and reason. IMHO

I didn't like the personal vitriol posted in it but felt the thread illustrated what I was talking about last night as regards some of the extreme responses to this particular topic.
Apologies to all if I missed stuff. I tend to speed-read things.
Bad habit I know.

Offline Raj2014

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #222 on: 08/06/2014 09:26 PM »
What is the latest news on the EM drive/Cannae drive? I have found a website saying that NASA did not validate the test, http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/#.U-KZq4BdUdg. I hope this is not true and that there will be more tests done proving this method of propulsion does work.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2014 09:27 PM by Raj2014 »

Offline Star One

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #223 on: 08/06/2014 09:31 PM »

What is the latest news on the EM drive/Cannae drive? I have found a website saying that NASA did not validate the test, http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/#.U-KZq4BdUdg. I hope this is not true and that there will be more tests done proving this method of propulsion does work.

Maybe I misread but that appears to be yet another article based on the abstract and not the full paper. If it is the writer has erred.

Offline aero

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #224 on: 08/06/2014 09:50 PM »
Yea. The latest news is that bloggers are still writing without reading. There is one blogger who has evidently read the full paper but I'll need to find the link again. Let me refer you to the full paper in the mean time.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/235868930/Anomalous-Thrust-Production-from-an-RF-Test-Device-Measured-on-a-Low-Thrust-Torsion-Pendulum

Looking at the paper it is easy to see why people might skim through it. It is 20 pages and dry reading, but it has several nuggets in it. The full paper explains many of the misunderstandings that come from reading the widely available abstract and leaves a much more positive impression. IMO

Here is the link to the article in Next Big Future that I alluded to.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/08/full-nasa-cannae-drive-and-emdrive-test.html
« Last Edit: 08/06/2014 09:54 PM by aero »
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Offline IslandPlaya

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #225 on: 08/06/2014 10:39 PM »
Yea. The latest news is that bloggers are still writing without reading. There is one blogger who has evidently read the full paper but I'll need to find the link again. Let me refer you to the full paper in the mean time.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/235868930/Anomalous-Thrust-Production-from-an-RF-Test-Device-Measured-on-a-Low-Thrust-Torsion-Pendulum

Looking at the paper it is easy to see why people might skim through it. It is 20 pages and dry reading, but it has several nuggets in it. The full paper explains many of the misunderstandings that come from reading the widely available abstract and leaves a much more positive impression. IMO

Here is the link to the article in Next Big Future that I alluded to.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/08/full-nasa-cannae-drive-and-emdrive-test.html
I read that. A good summary but not much else. (Unless I am missing something, entirely possible.)
Comments are par for the course.

Offline IslandPlaya

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #226 on: 08/06/2014 10:46 PM »
For what it's worth I speed-read a lot of things and I'm good at it.
I am still going over the NASA paper properly.
So far I think that they have been very careful about outside influences.
Ion wind, heat based stuff not so much... I will continue pouring over it.

Offline IslandPlaya

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #227 on: 08/06/2014 10:49 PM »
Think they need a mu-metal shield already.  :(

Offline Star One

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #228 on: 08/06/2014 10:51 PM »

For what it's worth I speed-read a lot of things and I'm good at it.
I am still going over the NASA paper properly.
So far I think that they have been very careful about outside influences.
Ion wind, heat based stuff not so much... I will continue pouring over it.

How about testing in hard vacuum with a Tesla cage around it?

Offline IslandPlaya

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #229 on: 08/06/2014 10:55 PM »

For what it's worth I speed-read a lot of things and I'm good at it.
I am still going over the NASA paper properly.
So far I think that they have been very careful about outside influences.
Ion wind, heat based stuff not so much... I will continue pouring over it.

How about testing in hard vacuum with a Tesla cage around it?
Yes, but that would be difficult and expensive! How about testing on the ISS with a Faraday cage (I'm sure you meant this!) and mu-metal components?
I agree

Offline bubbagret

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #230 on: 08/06/2014 10:55 PM »

For what it's worth I speed-read a lot of things and I'm good at it.
I am still going over the NASA paper properly.
So far I think that they have been very careful about outside influences.
Ion wind, heat based stuff not so much... I will continue pouring over it.

How about testing in hard vacuum with a Tesla cage around it?

You mean Faraday cage supposedly...

Offline GregA

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #231 on: 08/06/2014 10:57 PM »

Here is the link to the article in Next Big Future that I alluded to.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/08/full-nasa-cannae-drive-and-emdrive-test.html
Thanks for showing what you didn't like about the commentary. And this link!

Online Stormbringer

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #232 on: 08/06/2014 11:00 PM »
doesn't Woodward do that with his version of this thing?  i seem to remember that in one of the many Woodward videos i have seen. if i remember correctly his unit has an integral Faraday cage and then that plexigrass cylinder is a vacuum chamber. the device is put on a torsion balance inside the vacuum chamber thing.
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Online Stormbringer

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #233 on: 08/06/2014 11:23 PM »
interview for woowoo type science fringey newszine. but has picture of his test chamber and his thrust traces, thermal traces and so forth. his claim is for 40 mg and 50mgs of thrust signal:

http://www.frequency.com/video/mach-effect-warp-drives-stargates-by-jim/166119888/-/5-905277

Dr Woodward chokes trying to stifle a laugh at a question the interviewer asks:



Woodward giving a talk at a non woowoo space conference:

« Last Edit: 08/07/2014 12:40 AM by Stormbringer »
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Offline IslandPlaya

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #234 on: 08/06/2014 11:53 PM »
We need more than this Stormbringer.

Online Stormbringer

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #235 on: 08/06/2014 11:57 PM »
i know. i am missing a video somewhere and iam looking for the one where Woodward himself give the explanation of his set up including the contacts on his torsion balance and stuff. i am trying to find it. but meanwhile Dr Woodward's web page has links to his papers and stuff:

http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/

I'm still looking for that video. i know i watched just a couple of weeks ago. :(

still can't find the video. still looking however here is Dr Paul March's PPT presentation slides. there are several good pictures of his device and charts and test rigs from 2003.

http://www.powershow.com/view1/f70a5-ZDc1Z/Paul_March_powerpoint_ppt_presentation
« Last Edit: 08/07/2014 12:08 AM by Stormbringer »
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Offline IslandPlaya

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #236 on: 08/07/2014 12:00 AM »
You could have Ernst Mach himself argue the current state-of-the-art.
It wouldn't make any difference.
We just don't know.

Online Stormbringer

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #237 on: 08/07/2014 12:10 AM »
You could have Ernst Mach himself argue the current state-of-the-art.
It wouldn't make any difference.
We just don't know.

that's not important. what is important is his set up details and his results. both of which i can show with what i am putting up and with that video if i can find it.
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Online Stormbringer

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #238 on: 08/07/2014 02:02 AM »
i still have not found it if someone could help me out in finding it I'd appreciate it. 'Cos i now want to download it to my hard drive so i don't lose it again as well as to link or embed it here.

In the video i have in mind he pointed to and covered all the components going into detail on the Faraday cage the ceramic stack, the mounting block for the stack, the balance pivot there were two rather big wire ribbon wrapped cables mounted to the pivot and leading off towards the stack itself. He explained how the type of contact s were important because they had to be forceless. he then spoke about how the stack produced a thrust signal but wore out and "died" he then showed the traces for thermal and thrust and i think two other traces (maybe power and something else) and showed where in the data traces the device died.
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Offline aero

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Re: EM Drive Developments
« Reply #239 on: 08/07/2014 04:20 AM »
Getting back to EM Drive, am I correct in thinking that the higher the frequency the more power consumed and the smaller the RF resonator?

I'm trying to guess how large a mature EM Drive might be physically? (Assuming that it does mature.) I'm pretty sure that the power sources would be a lot bigger than the EM Drive itself.

From what I've read it doesn't look like there is any reason to hang the drives off the tail end of the spaceship, rather just set them in the electronics bay, or maybe in the Captain's cabin. Of course they would need to be attached to a thrust structure. If you wanted redundancy you could just weld 20 or so of the 5% sized EM Drives on the stern of your spaceship.

I'm hoping that by the end of the year we can start speculating configurations in earnest.
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