ITAR (working with the Chinese in aerospace)

[Danderman]

BTW, for many years, I was an export control officer for a DTRA-licensed company and sat through the training on a regular basis. Anyone else here have that pleasure?

Raises hand.

The training needs to be conducted annually and we are tested at the end. A passing score is 98%. Anything less sends us back to training.

The training can be, well, difficult. It makes you look at everyone, and I mean everyone, with a suspicious eye. I suppose that's what it's supposed to do but the way the law is written it has absolutely squashed the aerospace industry.

I believe that your annual training and testing were a company policy and not ITAR policy.  ITAR does require periodic training, but I cannot remember how often. I guess I wasn't trained enough.

[Jim]

{snip}
What information from ISS would indeed be useful to the Chinese military? I am not saying that there wouldn't be some useful information, I just have no clue what it is, and why they can't get it today from Russia or ESA.

Hmm. Any similarity between life support, including oxygen handling, for the ISS and high flying military aircraft?

Not much, ISS uses systems analogous to submarine life support equipment, though. Jets don't use regenerative oxygen systems.

There is a lot more military application to Boeing jets than to ISS. Yes, I know that jets are not covered by ITAR, but my point is to ask why we export jets to China, but won't let the Chinese visit ISS?

They can't service the INU

[Danderman]

They can't service the INU

What the heck is an INU?

[Galactic Penguin SST]

What the heck is an INU?

Inertial navigation unit.

[Danderman]

What the heck is an INU?

Inertial navigation unit.

My point is to ask why we export jets to China, but won't let the Chinese visit ISS? Where does an inertial navigation unit come into this?

[Jim]

What the heck is an INU?

Inertial navigation unit.

My point is to ask why we export jets to China, but won't let the Chinese visit ISS? Where does an inertial navigation unit come into this?

The Chinese can't service the ones in US aircraft

[QuantumG]

http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/united-technologies-admits-to-576-export-violations-will-pay-75-million

[Danderman]

What the heck is an INU?

Inertial navigation unit.

My point is to ask why we export jets to China, but won't let the Chinese visit ISS? Where does an inertial navigation unit come into this?

The Chinese can't service the ones in US aircraft

The point is that exported jets have some sort of tech control, because the Chinese are not allowed to service their INUs? Does ISS have any technology that needs to be protected from the Chinese?

[cromandmitra]

http://www.space.com/9295-lawmaker-balks-nasa-chief-china-visit.html,Imho, the Boeing transactions is regulated independently by another agency here in the U.S.

[vulture4]

The real question here is not whether ITAR prevents Chinese participation in ISS, but whether ITAR itself benefits or harms the United States. ITAR is sold as protecting American technological superiority, but under the ITAR regime we have fallen from supplying about 80% of commercial satellites worldwide to about 35%, while US launches of commercial satellites have just about disappeared. Thales Alenia trumpets in headlines that the satellites it sells (some to be launched by China) are "ITAR-free".
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/09/us-usa-france-chinasatellite-idUSTRE8181F020120209

The fallacy of ITAR is that it assumes we are still fighting the Soviets. Our competition with China is economic, and far from helping, ITAR is crushing our ability to export high-tech products worth billions. If we cannot sell them in the export market they will soon be obsolete.

As a response to the Thales sale, the US threatened to cut off export licenses of US companies that supply Thales, crippling our exports of high-tech components as well as systems. So... for revenge we again shoot ourselves in the foot by blocking our own exports.

Obviously any technology that is sold commercially is going to be available for competitors to see, ITAR or no ITAR. The only protection for manufacturers is to keep one step ahead in technology and also to make it profitable for other countries to enforce US patents. It should be mentioned that the Obama Administration is well aware we are shooting ourselves in the foot with this but continues to enforce it at the behest of GOP leaders in Congress. Military hardware that must be kept secret is classified. Restricting the export of unclassified products is a stupid policy that only hurts US interests.

Finally, we need to ask whether Chinese participation in ISS helps or hurts US interests. If our goal is to ignite a new cold war and spend another generation building nuclear bombs and fallout shelters, then perhaps doing everything we can to make it impossible for US and Chinese astronauts to work together makes sense.

 

[HappyMartian]

...

Finally, we need to ask whether Chinese participation in ISS helps or hurts US interests. If our goal is to ignite a new cold war and spend another generation building nuclear bombs and fallout shelters, then perhaps doing everything we can to make it impossible for US and Chinese astronauts to work together makes sense.

 

Yep, that is what really needs to be carefully considered. Thank you vulture4!



Edited.