Orion High-altitude Abort Test Faces Budget-driven Delay

[Periander]

http://www.spacenews.com/civil/120622-orion-abort-test-delay.html

Jose Ortiz, NASA’s lead systems engineer for the Orion launch abort system at the agency’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va., told Space News in a June 21 email that the high-altitude abort test “may move to fiscal year 2018” as “part of a budget proposal that is still being worked.”

That message has reached Denver-based Lockheed Martin Space Systems, which had been planning for a 2015 abort test as recently as March. “Because of budget constraints, or the budgets we’ve been given to plan to, I think that high-altitude abort is now after 2017,” John Karas, Lockheed Martin vice president and general manager of human spaceflight, said in a June 19 interview here.

NASA officials have been warning since last year that work on Orion would be slowed to keep pace with the development of SLS and its launch infrastructure. The agency has proposed trimming Orion’s $1.2 billion budget back to $1 billion for 2013.

A Billion+ a year and they are facing a "budget driven delay"? Very disappointing.

[woods170]

Mind you that development on Orion is far from completed. They very much need that billion + each year to complete Orion development up to the point where the first manned BEO missions can start.

[Periander]

Mind you that development on Orion is far from completed. They very much need that billion + each year to complete Orion development up to the point where the first manned BEO missions can start.

First manned flight is supposed to be in 2021? That's a heck of a lot of billions between now and then.

[Comga]

Someone on this forum suggested that if NASA were given $35B/yr they would start a program requiring $70B/yr and complain that they were impeded by lack of funds.

Woods170: WHY do they need >$1B/yr for several years for Orion development for THIS mission?  What is it doing that the SpaceX COTS-1 flight didn't, other than being boosted to a high altitude?  And please don't post the obvious responses about BEO capabilities. 

[FinalFrontier]

Why is re-inventing the wheel so bloody hard. Oh wait, because your re-inventing the wheel.

Figure out how to build the spacecraft on a reasonable budget or your not going to build it. This does not have to be this difficult or this expensive.


Didn't we JUST go through this whole thing with CXP in 2010-2011?

Has no one at NASA learned anything?


Disappointed.

[Chris Bergin]

We heard about this in L2 a few months ago and I initially thought "OMG". However, it was clarified that this is no big deal, not required until before the first crewed mission.

Just moving the test schedule to best fit.

[Lars_J]

Dear LM,
I hope you are enjoying your yearly $billion stipend to recreate Apollo at your leisurely pace.

Because once this program is cancelled, you'll know the TRUE meaning of "budget restraints", because such a generous contract ($$$ paid / actual progress) will not be given to you again. Or anyone else.

[Jim]

Dear LM,
I hope you are enjoying your yearly $billion stipend to recreate Apollo at your leisurely pace.

LM does not get all of the Orion budget.
EFT-1 - some money goes to ULA
AA-2 - some goes to OSC
A lot of money goes to JSC for civil servants and support contractors and not LM

[Prober]

http://www.spacenews.com/civil/120622-orion-abort-test-delay.html

Jose Ortiz, NASA’s lead systems engineer for the Orion launch abort system at the agency’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va., told Space News in a June 21 email that the high-altitude abort test “may move to fiscal year 2018” as “part of a budget proposal that is still being worked.”

That message has reached Denver-based Lockheed Martin Space Systems, which had been planning for a 2015 abort test as recently as March. “Because of budget constraints, or the budgets we’ve been given to plan to, I think that high-altitude abort is now after 2017,” John Karas, Lockheed Martin vice president and general manager of human spaceflight, said in a June 19 interview here.

NASA officials have been warning since last year that work on Orion would be slowed to keep pace with the development of SLS and its launch infrastructure. The agency has proposed trimming Orion’s $1.2 billion budget back to $1 billion for 2013.

A Billion+ a year and they are facing a "budget driven delay"? Very disappointing.

If anything I'd like to see Orion increased and finished.  If an Orion is finished we still could move it over to an Atlas V if needed.

[woods170]

Someone on this forum suggested that if NASA were given $35B/yr they would start a program requiring $70B/yr and complain that they were impeded by lack of funds.

Woods170: WHY do they need >$1B/yr for several years for Orion development for THIS mission?  What is it doing that the SpaceX COTS-1 flight didn't, other than being boosted to a high altitude?  And please don't post the obvious responses about BEO capabilities. 

Jim doing the actual answering for me suits me just fine. See below 

LM does not get all of the Orion budget.
EFT-1 - some money goes to ULA
AA-2 - some goes to OSC
A lot of money goes to JSC for civil servants and support contractors and not LM

And they don't need that kind of money for just the high-altitude abort test or the first unmanned orbital flight. But development up to the 2019-2021 timeframe is not just about AA-2 or EFT-1, but a whole lot more. Just saying...

[gospacex]

Cancel the bloody thing already.

[Lars_J]

Dear LM,
I hope you are enjoying your yearly $billion stipend to recreate Apollo at your leisurely pace.

LM does not get all of the Orion budget.
EFT-1 - some money goes to ULA
AA-2 - some goes to OSC
A lot of money goes to JSC for civil servants and support contractors and not LM

Yes, I realize that the Orion budget is split up - but thanks listing them. ALL of the people and organizations involved with Orion ought to be shamed for their (lack of) progress.

By the time Orion is scheduled to fly its first manned mission, close to $20 billion will have been spent on it. In what universe is this an acceptable price tag for reinventing Apollo?

This kind of waste has a name... But saying it here on this forum gets people very upset, so I shall refrain. But the truth of it is obvious for all to see.

[QuantumG]

In what universe is this an acceptable price tag for reinventing Apollo?

Everything else you said was fine.. this is a dumb characterization of Orion.. it can't do half as much as the Apollo CSM, specially the SM part, let alone the rest of the Apollo architecture.

[spectre9]

Even I've changed my tune on this one.

LockMart is making more progress than the money being supplied to their bank accounts.

Orion could be qualified and flying much quicker than SLS will be ready but there's no real point to it.

The extra money spent to get EFT-1 done in a timely fashion is about all the progress we're likely to see for a while but that's a huge leap from first flight on SLS whenever that happens.

I think MPCV will survive but might not necessarily be launched on top of SLS.

With man rated Atlas coming along I think AVH could be in a better position than DIV-H.

[woods170]

ALL of the people and organizations involved with Orion ought to be shamed for their (lack of) progress.

I'm afraid you just managed to stampede over a few people's toes. Mind you, this forum actually is host to a number of people involved with Orion. They might not like what you just said.