Author Topic: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A  (Read 22652 times)

Offline Akclark

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #20 on: 07/19/2012 04:06 AM »




Looking at this frame, can someone help me calculate the dimensions a composite airframe would need to be.



The goal is to have the project meet the X-24A dimensions on page 14 of http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19700025069_1970025069.pdf this document.

Offline Rocket Science

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« Last Edit: 08/19/2012 12:36 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #22 on: 08/19/2012 12:54 PM »
Some helpful info on lift as a reaction force by Newtonian physics especially applicable to lifting bodies…

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/wrong1.html

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/bernnew.html

http://amasci.com/wing/airfoil.html
« Last Edit: 08/19/2012 12:55 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline rayleighscatter

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #23 on: 08/21/2012 08:40 PM »
Does the HL-20 mockup that Langley built still exist?

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #24 on: 08/21/2012 08:42 PM »
Does the HL-20 mockup that Langley built still exist?
It went to SNC.
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline Akclark

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Offline JAFO

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #26 on: 12/16/2012 03:21 AM »
Didn't see this posted and Christmas is coming. Those who need a present should ask for Milt Thompson's "Flying Without Wings", his last book.



Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps.
— Ernest K. Gann

Offline clongton

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #27 on: 12/16/2012 01:48 PM »
Thanks. Just ordered it from Amazon.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline Rocket Science

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« Last Edit: 12/20/2012 12:26 AM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #29 on: 12/20/2012 12:09 AM »
More good reads to add to the list:
 
From Runway to Orbit Reflections of a NASA Engineer

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29425328/From-Runway-to-Orbit-Reflections-of-a-NASA-Engineer

Subsonic Aerodynamic Characteristics of the HL-20 Lifting Body

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940012811_1994012811.pdf
« Last Edit: 12/20/2012 12:43 AM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline clongton

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #30 on: 12/20/2012 12:20 AM »
Got home from work and found that my copy of "Flying Without Wings" has been delivered :)
Looks like I'll be settling in for a good read over the weekend.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #31 on: 12/20/2012 12:31 AM »
Got home from work and found that my copy of "Flying Without Wings" has been delivered :)
Looks like I'll be settling in for a good read over the weekend.
It's a great book Chuck! Early Christmas gift to youself, they're the best kind... ;)
Enjoy! :)
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline JAFO

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #32 on: 02/19/2013 02:25 AM »
Got home from work and found that my copy of "Flying Without Wings" has been delivered :)
Looks like I'll be settling in for a good read over the weekend.

Bet it didn't take the entire weekend.  ;)

Now, if we could only get Gen. Engle to write a bio....
Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps.
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Offline john smith 19

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #33 on: 08/12/2013 08:32 AM »
Anyone who has watched the Shuttle land in marginal winds knows how valuable every bit of lift can be on final approach, and how much safer it would be with a lower touchdown speed and greater control margins. I cannot imagine selecting a vehicle with even slimmer safety margins for landing on a runway. Conversely the X-37, which evolved from the Shuttle design, has landed twice from space at a relatively comfortable speed of about 100 knots and with no visible TPS damage at all.
The X37b launches inside a protective shroud.
Quote
Yet I can find no indication in the Commercial Crew selection criteria that any advantage was given to a vehicle with better aerodynamic performance (i.e. the OSC Prometheus). Apparently the Dreamchaser was chosen over the Prometheus because of its larger passenger capacity (4 vs 6, although both met the spec) without any consideration of such basic aerodynamic criteria as lift and drag.
Perhaps because they are not that basic?
BTW You might find TA heppenheimer's "Facing the heat barrier" interesting on the subject of all US lifting body work, including ASSET, PRIME and the X30.
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #34 on: 11/09/2013 12:44 AM »
Time for some updates with the first flight of Dream Chaser! :)

Interesting bit about the HL-20 L/D of 4.3

Dream Chaser landed at 161 kts...


http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/Features/M2-F1_50_years_later.html#.Un2TlCcudlM

To those that came before Dream Chaser...







« Last Edit: 11/11/2013 01:41 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #35 on: 11/09/2013 07:37 PM »
HL-10 wintunnel tests, single and multi fin...



HL-10 landing tests and water tank ditching tests... Both wheeled and skid gear configurations...
(tumble at 4:35 for those that need to see one...)   ::)


« Last Edit: 11/09/2013 07:56 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #36 on: 11/11/2013 01:51 PM »
From HL-20 to Dream Chaser...


"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #37 on: 01/05/2014 06:03 PM »
I came across a new L/D number of 5.8 from the HL-20 program on the NTRS. Would be nice if we ever get a number for Dream Chaser someday to compare...

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19910069242&hterms=hl-20&qs=Nm%3D17%7CCollection%7CNACA%7C%7C123%7CCollection%7CNASA%2520STI%26Ntx%3Dmode%2520matchallpartial%26Ntk%3DAll%26N%3D0%26No%3D30%26Ntt%3Dhl-20
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

Offline JAFO

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #38 on: 02/16/2016 01:38 AM »
I was wondering what M2-F1 stood for, I've gotten as far as finding out that M=Manned, F=Flight, and figger that F1 stood for the Flight version 1, was there a M1-F1?


TIA
Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps.
— Ernest K. Gann

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Lifting Body Air and Spacecraft Q & A
« Reply #39 on: 02/16/2016 02:01 AM »
I was wondering what M2-F1 stood for, I've gotten as far as finding out that M=Manned, F=Flight, and figger that F1 stood for the Flight version 1, was there a M1-F1?


TIA
M1L "half cone" was deemed too radical.... Correct about the M2-F1

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/M2-F1/HTML/EC62-175.html
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/history/pastprojects/Lifting/M2F1/#.VsKOa2grKhc
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/news/FactSheets/FS-011-DFRC.html

"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob, Physics instructor, aviator, vintage auto racer

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