Scientists to Hold Bake Sale for NASA Saturday

[Prober]

Have we come to this?

"The 2013 budget proposal submitted by the Obama administration earlier this year would cut funding for NASA's planetary science projects by about $300 million. While Congress is still deliberating over the federal budget, groups of scientists are planning a series of demonstrations — in the form of bake sales, car washes and other events — for Saturday (June 9) to plead their case."

http://news.yahoo.com/scientists-hold-bake-sale-nasa-saturday-221048232.html

[QuantumG]

Hopefully people who do bake sales and other fund raising activities seriously for their survival will show up and tell these "protestors" how insulted they are.

[mduncan36]

Hopefully people who do bake sales and other fund raising activities seriously for their survival will show up and tell these "protestors" how insulted they are.

I've been actively involved as an organizer and participant in such activities for Relay for Life (Cancer), the Muscular Dystrophy Association (wife), a Church affiliated orphanage in Honduras, and several others. It's a small protest and I really don't have a problem with it. There are many, many, daily reminders that there are other needs and problems in the world beyond any parochial interest any one group might have. You do what you can do and don't get bent out of shape by any others efforts.   

[QuantumG]

It's a protest.. they're trying to use absurdity to say fund raising is beneath them. They're important scientists.. you're just trying to help sick people and orphans.

[LegendCJS]

It's a protest..

If this is a protest, then what is a publicity stunt?

[QuantumG]

It's a protest..

If this is a protest, then what is a publicity stunt?

The two are not mutually exclusive.. in fact, most people consider a protest to have failed if there's no media attention received.

[mduncan36]

It's a protest.. they're trying to use absurdity to say fund raising is beneath them. They're important scientists.. you're just trying to help sick people and orphans.

I read it as entirely different. What they are saying is that the state of their program budget has become so low that they need to ask for a handout. They are stretching a point in order to make one. It's publicity.

The best way to ensure adequate giving for all charities is living in a viable economy. A small investment here does much to ensure that.

[agman25]

They should be TP'ing the JWST scale model in NY instead.

[Zachstar]

They need to join the club. Commercial crew is also 300M from needed funds for a reasonable return to US flight.

Congress hates you. You haz teh monies they need for stuff that getz tem teh votes.

Quite funny really. Small, Lean, highly efficient programs get the cut while fat bloated old style "Too big to fail because it costs jobs in important vote states" Gets tons of funds the moment they say "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE JOBS!?"

[QuantumG]

I read it as entirely different. What they are saying is that the state of their program budget has become so low that they need to ask for a handout. They are stretching a point in order to make one. It's publicity.

Their budget is a hand out. They're just saying they're too important to ask for it.

[93143]

They do ask for it.  They don't get heard.  The government just cuts and cuts with no regard for adequacy of provided funding for the execution of assigned tasks.

So now they're trying to shame the government into paying for what it wants done.  I don't see the problem.

I'm sure that if they could plug the gap with bake sales and still have time to do their jobs, they would.  But they can't; what they do is far too expensive for that.

And what do you think the response would be if they tried to just ask the public for donations?  Much worse, I suspect, than for this event.  I don't see it getting the media traction, for one.  Also, people are a lot more likely to respond if they get something in return, and they are a lot more likely to respect an actual physical effort rather than some button on a website...

NASA isn't big enough to be a noticeable factor in the deficit; more importantly, it hasn't been bloating with the rest of the budget.  Plus it is a rare example of a government program with a positive economic return, particularly long-term.  (And it can be argued that regardless of economic return, this is the sort of thing mankind should be doing, not that the government necessarily cares much about that.)  The only reason it keeps getting cut is political optics.  Change that, and you might get more funds.  Sure, one stunt like this may not do it, but every little bit helps...

[Zachstar]

I read it as entirely different. What they are saying is that the state of their program budget has become so low that they need to ask for a handout. They are stretching a point in order to make one. It's publicity.

Their budget is a hand out. They're just saying they're too important to ask for it.

What on earth? 

Do you think they are not going to hearings? Do you think they do not write requests that go to NASA? Do you think they do not compete for their program to get the funds to fly?

They aren't some bum on the street using their budget to buy beer instead of food and clothes. (Or using money to show up to work to play on Facebook all day) Look at MER. Absurdly high return for the money spent.

[QuantumG]

Sigh.. asking the government for your budget is completely different to asking the public. That's the point.. they're too important to be "reduced" to convincing people that their work should be funded. When you ask the government for money, the government takes it from the public.

[Prober]

It's a protest.. they're trying to use absurdity to say fund raising is beneath them. They're important scientists.. you're just trying to help sick people and orphans.

I read it as entirely different. What they are saying is that the state of their program budget has become so low that they need to ask for a handout. They are stretching a point in order to make one. It's publicity.

The best way to ensure adequate giving for all charities is living in a viable economy. A small investment here does much to ensure that.

Ok, the other questions that must be asked ......are these scientists just trying to protect their "way of life"?

What does a scientist get paid?   Well paid, over paid, or again just trying to protect their "way of life"?

Some, not all, "may" be placed into the "Jobs program" argument.
 

[93143]

Sigh.. asking the government for your budget is completely different to asking the public. That's the point.. they're too important to be "reduced" to convincing people that their work should be funded. When you ask the government for money, the government takes it from the public.

I already answered this.

What do you propose they do to try to "convince" the public that their work should be funded, that they aren't already doing?  Maybe NASA does need a better dedicated PR department, but that's not the scientists' fault.  Their missions are viewed very positively by the public, but the disconnect between public perception and NASA's actual budget remains.

[Zachstar]

Sigh.. asking the government for your budget is completely different to asking the public. That's the point.. they're too important to be "reduced" to convincing people that their work should be funded. When you ask the government for money, the government takes it from the public.

Again what on earth?

You make it sound like all they have to do is make a good argument and they get the money. And that the bullcrap known as politics does not get involved.

What better argument is the fact that one of the MER craft STILL functions and serves the scientific community?

The bake sale is symbolism! They run missions to mars for what it would take to install a cupcake holder on the new Stealth Fighter. (assuming they can log off of facebook long enough to even design such a holder)

[QuantumG]

The bake sale is symbolism!

Yes.. the problem is that you can't see the symbolism.

When your local church group, charity, school or sports team runs a bake sale, that is symbolism too. The difference is, they are not being skeptical about it. They're saying they need your contribution to do what they do.

Not running a bake sale is symbolism too. It says they don't need your contribution.. or in this case, they don't have to ask for it - they're important enough to just take it from you through taxation.

So not only should those groups that legitimately run bake sales to fund their activities be insulted by this "protest", but the rest of you should too.

[oiorionsbelt]

This has to be the most non spaceflight related thread on NSF

[93143]

The bake sale is symbolism!

Yes.. the problem is that you can't see the symbolism.

When your local church group, charity, school or sports team runs a bake sale, that is symbolism too. The difference is, they are not being skeptical about it. They're saying they need your contribution to do what they do.

Not running a bake sale is symbolism too. It says they don't need your contribution.. or in this case, they don't have to ask for it - they're important enough to just take it from you through taxation.

So not only should those groups that legitimately run bake sales to fund their activities be insulted by this "protest", but the rest of you should too.

No.

Bake sales and car washes are for when you need a small amount of money for a worthy cause, and people are still too cheap to give it to you without something in return.

NASA needs a large amount of money.  They can't possibly raise it themselves, and no private company will fund planetary science, so if it's going to get done it needs to get done by government.  And it is a worthy cause.

People generally have no idea what goes on with NASA's budget, but they do understand that if scientists are resorting to this sort of fundraiser, even symbolically, things must be worse than the movies imply.  What's wrong with raising awareness?

Now, I do see your point, when I look really closely.  But you're blowing it way out of proportion, probably due to your underlying hostility towards NASA in general.  And the logical result of your complaint seems to be that NASA is forced into just taking the cut, because you won't allow them any options that aren't practical impossibilities.

Your position seems to be that NASA should just go die in a hole.  I'm sorry, but I can't respect that view.

[QuantumG]

No.

Bake sales and car washes are for when you need a small amount of money for a worthy cause, and people are still too cheap to give it to you without something in return.

Yes, it's a way of convincing others to part with their money for your cause.

NASA needs a large amount of money.  They can't possibly raise it themselves, and no private company will fund planetary science, so if it's going to get done it needs to get done by government.  And it is a worthy cause.

The amount of money is irrelevant. If it's a worthy cause you should have no problem raising it. If you can't, then you have no right to take it from others by force.

People generally have no idea what goes on with NASA's budget, but they do understand that if scientists are resorting to this sort of fundraiser, even symbolically, things must be worse than the movies imply.  What's wrong with raising awareness?

Nothing. There's everything wrong with spitting in the face of everyone who doesn't have a government handout and uses honest means like bake sales to legitimately raise funding.

Your position seems to be that NASA should just go die in a hole.  I'm sorry, but I can't respect that view.

My position is that these particular activists (who, BTW, are not sanctioned by NASA) are insensitive jerks.

[Zachstar]

If NASA had even remotely the amount of funding the average joe thinks it has then the return to the moon would be an easy two steps.

#1 Spend Said Money

#2 Keep ATK as far away as possible.

It does not. And programs that actually MAKE stuff happen are getting the cut. Thus a bake sale is actually a better use of their time than testifying to congress that will just fall asleep with dreams of spending the money on big jobs (Votes) projects.

[QuantumG]

You're changing the subject, are you conceding the argument?

[93143]

The amount of money is irrelevant. If it's a worthy cause you should have no problem raising it. If you can't, then you have no right to take it from others by force.

In other words, NASA should just go die in a hole.

...

If you somehow managed to get every American to understand that the program that put Spirit and Opportunity on Mars was in trouble to the tune of one dollar per citizen this year, I think you'd raise the money.  The problem is not that people don't think NASA is worth funding; it's that people don't think it's worth funding at the level they think it's funded at.  It's a question of awareness.

There is a difference between using tax money to do science and mugging passersby.  You're ignoring it for rhetorical purposes.

[Zachstar]

My position is that these particular activists (who, BTW, are not sanctioned by NASA) are insensitive jerks.

You are just pretending they are not "Worthy" or are too lazy to get the funding and completely ignoring that they are fighting against POLITICS. Stuff COMPLETELY outside the realm of "X probe can gain Y data in Z time"

Also did you also ignore the fact that the reason they are going to be there is answering the public's questions about unmanned spaceflight? And I mean the public that will see this and stop by not media showing up at a press conference on a slow news day.

They are not jerks in the least. This is the sad reality that they HAVE to hold events like this to counter the above mentioned politics.

[Carl G]

This has to be the most non spaceflight related thread on NSF

Locked!