CZ-3B - Chinasat (Zhongxing) 2A - May 26, 2012

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Author Topic: CZ-3B - Chinasat (Zhongxing) 2A - May 26, 2012  (Read 11432 times)
jcm
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« Reply #60 on: 05/28/2012 04:26 AM »

Why is it that for almost every launch from China, western analysts say that the satellite has a military purpose, even when Xinhua says that, for example in this case, Chinasat 2A "will be used to meet the demands for China's radio and TV broadcasting and broadband multimedia transmissions."?

So in the West, the headline invariably reads that yet another military satellite was launched for China. 

They can't all be military!  And who exactly are these western analysts?

 - Ed Kyle


Ed - I'm one of them ;-)
Here's the funny thing: if you go to the web page of Chinasat
http://www.chinasatcom.com/en/News_Info.aspx?m=20110329113845577061&n=20110329133705937193

they list the satellites they operate, and the ones that are rumored to be really military are - surprise - not on their list.


So I'm pretty comfortable with the conclusion that ZX-22, 20, 22A, 20A, 1A and 2A are not really Chinasats.

It's been a pretty good guide for the former USSR and for China that if they don't talk about it in detail, it's probably military. (Now we can 'look up the answers in the back of the book' for the USSR, seems like the UK amateur BIS/Kettering analysts did a pretty good job in figuring out what was what,) One can also conclude from behaviour and orbit sometimes... pretty clear most of the FSW recoverable satellites were recon.
Of the sats launched this year, ZY-3 and TH-1 are under civil management
  , but there's some dual use component there    FY-2F is known to be civilian under weather bureau control, I am agnostic about the Beidous - like GPS, it's a dual use system and I don't agree with many other analysts that one has to assume it's mainly military.  GPS is a great example of the difficulties of labelling everything as either one or the other - mil vs not-mil.
   The Yaogan satellites, however, seem to me to be clearly military. Yaogan seems to be almost comparable to the Soviet Kosmos as a cover name for a wide range of different programs about which little is released - a giveaway. The mix of low orbit imaging, radar and infrared satellites strongly suggest that Yaogan is an operational  military/intelligence series.

You are right that one does have to be careful to avoid the general paranoia common in US policy circles that label all Chinese activities with the most aggressive interpretation possible.  But I think there's no question that a substantial subset of the Chinese space program involves military/intel objectives and assets. Just as ours does - seems like the Chinese government would be remiss if they did NOT have military intelligence, comms and nav systems for their national defense, although I would hope that both they and we refrain from further testing of space weapons and cut back on ballistic missile deployment and testing.
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« Reply #61 on: 05/28/2012 06:30 AM »

"The CZ-3B first stage debris hit homes and interrupted a 10 kV high voltage line, cutting power in villages in Suining county, Hunan province."
(source)

edit: source in English:
Satellite wreckage damages homes
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« Reply #62 on: 05/28/2012 07:16 AM »

"The CZ-3B first stage debris hit homes and interrupted a 10 kV high voltage line, cutting power in villages in Suining county, Hunan province."
(source)
The village concerned is ShuangJiang located at N265155E1101746
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« Reply #63 on: 05/28/2012 07:49 AM »

A booster fell near Maxi village, Guizhou province (N271731E1080509).
180,000 people had been evacuated.
(source)
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« Reply #64 on: 05/28/2012 09:20 AM »

Here's a more "official" source for the ST-2 code-name.  ::)
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« Reply #65 on: 05/28/2012 01:59 PM »

Any thoughts, comments (which can be repeated in civilised company, of course!), especially about the MIA Zhongxing 2?

ZX-2 was a satellite launched on 22.12.1988. It had likely nothing to do with ZX-2A or the ST series. Similar there was a ZX-1 launched on 07.03.1988 with no real connection to ZX-1A or the FH series. Seems like some kind of reuse of older designators for military comsats.

Some remarks to the Zhongxing-designations for early China comsats and the military nature of some of the satellites.
The Zhongxing-designations were only introduced in the mid 90s together with the establishment of the China Satcom Enterprise.  When Spacenet-1 was leased by China Satcom (as a replacement for the ill fated first DFH-3 satellite) the bird received the designation Zhongxing-5 and it seems logical for western observers that that ZX-1 to ZX-4 corresponds to STTW-2 to STTW-5. But until today this has never been confirmed by China official sources.
Surprisingly one alternative name is known for STTW-4 (launched 1990-02-04)  –  Shen Jian (神箭) which means  “Magic Arrow”.  This name was revealed by a souvenir envelope issued by XSLC philatelic society. It seems that this name was a military secret, because the issue of the envelope was stopped immediately  and only few envelopes have been available for public.
A similar information “accident” occurred when FH-1 was launched. Again the same philatelic society issued an envelope with a very detailed description (also in English language) about the military nature of FH-1 on the reverse site at first. Due to security objections the issue of the envelope was stopped and the text on the remaining envelopes was overprinted.
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« Reply #66 on: 05/28/2012 03:03 PM »

Surprisingly one alternative name is known for STTW-4 (launched 1990-02-04)  –  Shen Jian (神箭) which means  “Magic Arrow”.  This name was revealed by a souvenir envelope issued by XSLC philatelic society. It seems that this name was a military secret, because the issue of the envelope was stopped immediately  and only few envelopes have been available for public.

Isn't it possible that 箭 in 神箭 refers tho the launcher as in 火箭 rather than to the satellite?
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« Reply #67 on: 05/28/2012 06:49 PM »

Surprisingly one alternative name is known for STTW-4 (launched 1990-02-04)  –  Shen Jian (神箭) which means  “Magic Arrow”.  This name was revealed by a souvenir envelope issued by XSLC philatelic society. It seems that this name was a military secret, because the issue of the envelope was stopped immediately  and only few envelopes have been available for public.

Isn't it possible that 箭 in 神箭 refers tho the launcher as in 火箭 rather than to the satellite?

The reverse site of the envelope. Can you help to translate?
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« Reply #68 on: 05/28/2012 08:02 PM »

The reverse site of the envelope. Can you help to translate?
A tentative translation:
Shenjian
In 1990 during the Chinese  New Year Festivities, China Xichang Satellite Launch Center  successfully launched a geostationary satellite, a seal for this special  period to remember
Seal, stamp: Zhang Zhijie, Tong Zhongxie
China Xichang Satellite Launch Center Philatelic Society
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« Reply #69 on: 05/29/2012 01:28 PM »

We now have Object B
38353/ 2012-028B in 184.0 x 35807.1 km x 26.69°
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« Reply #70 on: 05/29/2012 07:22 PM »

Another booster 's debris were recovered in the same area as the first one
(source)
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« Reply #71 on: 05/31/2012 09:39 AM »

"The CZ-3B first stage debris hit homes and interrupted a 10 kV high voltage line, cutting power in villages in Suining county, Hunan province."
(source)

edit: source in English:
Satellite wreckage damages homes


A video on these damages:
http://tv.sohu.com/20120530/n344425081.shtml
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« Reply #72 on: 06/06/2012 01:25 PM »

An interesting retrospective on Chinese rocket debris
(12 pictures)
http://www.cnr.cn/native/pic/201205/t20120528_509722590.html
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« Reply #73 on: 06/08/2012 09:19 PM »

ZX-2A found at 98.3°E.
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