Author Topic: Russian Segment  (Read 157751 times)

Offline norm103

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Russian Segment
« on: 06/13/2006 05:32 PM »
is there going to be any more Russian Segment launched to the ISS?

Offline nacnud

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #1 on: 06/13/2006 06:40 PM »
Yes the Multipurpose Laboratory Module is due to be launched by a proton in 2008 IIRC. There are also suggestions for further modules but these are less certain.

Offline Suzy

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #2 on: 06/13/2006 09:54 PM »
There is a page about the MLM at the Khrunichev site:

http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/full_mks.asp?id=13190

Offline norm103

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RE: Russian Segment
« Reply #3 on: 06/17/2006 11:42 PM »
will were this would be docked to?

Offline Suzy

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #4 on: 06/18/2006 02:05 AM »
To the nadir port of Zarya

Offline anik

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #5 on: 06/18/2006 11:25 AM »
Quote
Suzy - 18/6/2006  5:52 AM

To the nadir port of Zarya

Russian specialists are discussing now the possibility of docking of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of Zvezda Module (Pirs Module should be relocated to the zenith port of the Zvezda Module before that)...

The reason: the Zarya Module belongs to USA, which may leave ISS after 2015... Therefore, Russian and U.S. segments may be separated and the Zarya Module will be left attached to U.S. segment... And then the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will be possibly the Base Module for the new Russian Space Station...

Offline PlanetStorm

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #6 on: 06/18/2006 12:48 PM »
Quote
anik - 18/6/2006  6:12 AM

Quote
Suzy - 18/6/2006  5:52 AM

To the nadir port of Zarya

Russian specialists are discussing now the possibility of docking of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of Zvezda Module (Pirs Module should be relocated to the zenith port of the Zvezda Module before that)...

The reason: the Zarya Module belongs to USA, which may leave ISS after 2015... Therefore, Russian and U.S. segments may be separated and the Zarya Module will be left attached to U.S. segment... And then the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will be possibly the Base Module for the new Russian Space Station...

How can Zarya go anywhere? Would it work as a free flyer?

Offline Jim

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #7 on: 06/18/2006 02:00 PM »
It already has worked as a free flyer for more than a year, before the SM went up.

The ISS can not be broken up.  That is nonsense.  It can't be separated and have two independent stations.
The Russian segment provides propulsion and thrusted attitude control for the whole ISS

The Zarya has long exceeded its life for most of its systems.  Right now, it is only being used as a structual element and fuel storage.   It would still have to be controlled by the Russians.

Offline Jim

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #8 on: 06/18/2006 07:08 PM »
Zarya probably can't deorbit the rest of the station

Offline mr.columbus

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #9 on: 06/18/2006 09:45 PM »
Quote
anik - 18/6/2006  7:12 AM

Quote
Suzy - 18/6/2006  5:52 AM

To the nadir port of Zarya

Russian specialists are discussing now the possibility of docking of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of Zvezda Module (Pirs Module should be relocated to the zenith port of the Zvezda Module before that)...

The reason: the Zarya Module belongs to USA, which may leave ISS after 2015... Therefore, Russian and U.S. segments may be separated and the Zarya Module will be left attached to U.S. segment... And then the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will be possibly the Base Module for the new Russian Space Station...

The reason can't be that Zarya is officially owned by the US. When NASA leaves the project in 2016, it shouldn't be too hard to convince NASA to let go off the Zarya Module as well - before deorbiting the rest (by use of an ATV+Progres etc.). It would make more sense if the reason to just take Zvedza and the MLM, is that Zarya is too old to be of any use in 2016.

Beside that, the Russian segment needs addtional power from the US solar panels to work properly, in order to use the Russian modules as an independent space station at least one additional module will be necessary that provides enough power for the other modules - could that be a new Zarya module (with additional solar panels to provide more power)?

By the way, as this thread is about the Russian segment, any news on the other Russian lab beside the MLM, that is the 'Russian Research Module' that is apparently still scheduled to go to the ISS around 2009 (it is still mentioned on the official NASA launch schedule)?

Offline Jim

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #10 on: 06/18/2006 10:20 PM »
Zarya has a probe, so ATV or Progress can't dock with it.  The USOS would needs a Russian piece of hardware to interface with a ATV or Progress.  In 2016 the SM would be beyond its lifetime also.  The PMA between Node 1 and Zarya has been disabled.

Offline anik

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #11 on: 06/21/2006 09:07 PM »
Quote
mr.columbus - 19/6/2006  1:32 AM

By the way, as this thread is about the Russian segment, any news on the other Russian lab beside the MLM, that is the 'Russian Research Module' that is apparently still scheduled to go to the ISS around 2009 (it is still mentioned on the official NASA launch schedule)?

Alas, the Research Module (IM) will not be built...

Below is our current "fantastic" plans (from RSC Energiya)...

The Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) will be docked to the nadir port of Zvezda Service Module (SM) in August 2008 (in the best case)... Sometime after that the docking module (DM) with six ports will be docked to MLM, two Small Research Modules (MIM-1 and MIM-2) will be docked to DM, two Small Science Power Platforms (NEP-1 and NEP-2) will be docked to MIM-1 and MIM-2 accordingly... Soyuz, Progress, Kliper and Parom will dock to another ports of DM...

Offline spacedreams

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RE: Russian Segment
« Reply #12 on: 06/21/2006 10:58 PM »
Not to mention. if you deorbit the US segment you take the Japanese and ESA segments with it. They are on the front end of the "US" segment with no possible interface to the Russian segments

Offline mr.columbus

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RE: Russian Segment
« Reply #13 on: 06/22/2006 08:11 PM »
Quote
Not to mention. if you deorbit the US segment you take the Japanese and ESA segments with it. They are on the front end of the "US" segment with no possible interface to the Russian segments

But that is something the plan by the Russians does not care about - as far as I understand it the basic idea is to keep Russian LEO activity alive after 2016 and reduce costs as much as possible in doings so. That said, because 1. there is no way the Russian space agency could just take over management and operations for the whole ISS after NASA leaves the project and 2. the Russian segments are designed to operate without the rest of the ISS, if NASA sticks with the agreed end of ISS operations in 2016, the Russian plan asks for detaching the Russian modules from the rest + that naturally means also from the Japanese and European modules - ESA and JAXA can't however do anything against that, both NASA and Roscomos' obligations end with 2016 and Columbus and KIBO would need to have NASA involvement in the project anyway in order to be used after 2016.

@anik:

The plan of two small Russian Research modules was, as far as I know, the original plan in the 1990s. Two years ago I read an article that Roskosmos informed NASA that they would keep their ISS commitment by providing the MLM in 2007/2008 and another MLM-like module in 2009/2010. This was still the plan in December 2005 when the new ISS design was approved by the partners, therefore the NASA launch schedule lists one Russian Research Module to be launched some time after the MLM. Is the plan you outline now the current one?

Offline anik

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RE: Russian Segment
« Reply #14 on: 06/22/2006 09:43 PM »
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mr.columbus - 22/6/2006  11:58 PM

Is the plan you outline now the current one?

Yes, it is a current plan, which was made at RSC Energiya recently...

Energiya has made the booklet, in which this configuration of Russian segment is described... According to it, we do not want (or NASA forbids) to dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zarya Module... And, instead of the Research Module, which will not be built, we will dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zvezda Module...

Offline nacnud

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #15 on: 06/22/2006 10:09 PM »
The nadir port of Zarya is open until the installation of Node 3, after that the proximity between the arriving Russian module and node 3 is too small. I don't know when the Node 3 is to be installed but it one of the last things to go up I think which gives the Russians to early 2009, no later.

Plus does anyone know how Pirs is planned to be moved to make the nadir port of Zvezda available?

Offline anik

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #16 on: 06/23/2006 12:06 AM »
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nacnud - 23/6/2006  1:56 AM

does anyone know how Pirs is planned to be moved to make the nadir port of Zvezda available?

I believe that with a help of SSRMS, but FRGF unit (for grapple of Pirs by SSRMS) should be installed onto Pirs before that...

Offline nacnud

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #17 on: 06/23/2006 12:24 AM »
Can the SSRMS reach? The ERA is going up with the MLM but thats no help if Pirs is still in the way. Plus IIRC the cone and drogue docking system needs a high impulse to latch correctly, can an arm provide this?

Offline bobthemonkey

RE: Russian Segment
« Reply #18 on: 06/25/2006 12:33 PM »
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anik - 22/6/2006  10:30 PM

Yes, it is a current plan, which was made at RSC Energiya recently...

Energiya has made the booklet, in which this configuration of Russian segment is described... According to it, we do not want (or NASA forbids) to dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zarya Module... And, instead of the Research Module, which will not be built, we will dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zvezda Module...

I've seen that boklet before, but now I can't seem to find it. Dont' suppose you have a link to it?

thanks

Offline anik

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RE: Russian Segment
« Reply #19 on: 06/25/2006 06:36 PM »
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bobthemonkey - 25/6/2006  4:20 PM

I've seen that boklet before, but now I can't seem to find it. Dont' suppose you have a link to it?

I believe that you and I speak about different booklets... I am sorry, but the booklet, about which I speak, was made for internal use only...

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