Author Topic: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?  (Read 4467 times)

Offline ChileVerde

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RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« on: 01/04/2013 02:04 PM »

This somewhat odd newsbit showed up last week and I'm not sure how much weight to give it.  Anybody know more about the claimed modification work?

Quote
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/12/28/russia_upgrading_booster_rocket_for_nasa.htm

Russia Upgrading Booster Rocket for NASA Manned Missions
Dec. 28, 2012

Russia was modernizing a booster which U.S. space agency NASA would use for manned flights, a Russian rocket engine manufacturer said Wednesday.

"We are adjusting the RD-180 engine for manned missions," Executive Director of NPO Energomash company Vladimir Solntsev told reporters, adding the adaptation work started in early 2012.

<snip>

The upgraded RD-180 could put into orbit a workload of 400 tons, the company said.

Solntsev also revealed his company had been designing even more powerful space boosters with a 500-ton capacity.

"We are going to market it for our western partners," he said.
<snip>

I'd guess the 400 and 500 ton bits are a garble of some sort.
"I canít tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline MP99

Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #1 on: 01/04/2013 02:11 PM »
I'd guess the 400 and 500 ton bits are a garble of some sort.

GLOW, rather than payload?

Current engine has about 860 klb (390 tonnes) of thrust, IIRC. With T/W of 1.2:1, a 400 mT GLOW would need a thrust upgrade of about 23%.

cheers, Martin

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #2 on: 01/04/2013 04:45 PM »
Would they be adding enough thrust to allow elimination of the SRB, allowing the CST-100 to fly on an Atlas 401 instead of a 412 ?

Is it possible to add enough thrust to the first stage to eliminate the need for the Dual Engine Centaur (another significant cost reduction) ?

Offline edkyle99

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #3 on: 01/04/2013 06:15 PM »
I'd guess the 400 and 500 ton bits are a garble of some sort.
My guess was that they were talking about thrust - the general range of thrust.  This hints at a 25% increase in thrust, if true.  The cost will probably go up more than 25% though.  ;)

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 01/04/2013 06:16 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline Prober

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #4 on: 01/04/2013 07:23 PM »
I'd guess the 400 and 500 ton bits are a garble of some sort.
My guess was that they were talking about thrust - the general range of thrust.  This hints at a 25% increase in thrust, if true.  The cost will probably go up more than 25% though.  ;)

 - Ed Kyle

A new price for the RD=180 would be a no go IMHO
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
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Online PahTo

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #5 on: 01/04/2013 07:43 PM »
Modifications have always been a part of the upgrade path for human rating the RD-180, but these have revolved around engine management/engine control sensors and systems to assure a safe ride and proper shutdown/LAS functionality.

The mods talked about here indicate more substantial changes to the engine components themselves.  Could it be they want to get in the running for SLS LRBs?
« Last Edit: 01/04/2013 07:44 PM by PahTo »

Offline sdsds

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #6 on: 01/04/2013 08:15 PM »
Would up-rating the thrust of RD-180 allow CST-100 to fly on an Atlas V 402 rather than a 412?
-- sdsds --

Offline Jim

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #7 on: 01/04/2013 08:45 PM »
I would take this with a grain of salt. 
a.  Has ULA stated that they are doing any of this work?
b.  If they are, what does it entail?  Maybe only extra documentation for manrating or some minor mods in some areas to increase margins.
c.  Thrust upgrade?  Highly doubtful and not even worth discussing the implications.

It is a waste to take these unconfirmed "reports" and run with them and speculate.

Offline Prober

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #8 on: 01/04/2013 10:59 PM »
I would take this with a grain of salt. 
a.  Has ULA stated that they are doing any of this work?
b.  If they are, what does it entail?  Maybe only extra documentation for manrating or some minor mods in some areas to increase margins.
c.  Thrust upgrade?  Highly doubtful and not even worth discussing the implications.

It is a waste to take these unconfirmed "reports" and run with them and speculate.

agree with you 100%
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline 360-180

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #9 on: 01/05/2013 01:37 PM »
RSC Energia presentation may 2012
http://www.buran.ru/htm/news.htm

lower left corner RD-180M 'Pilotiruemiy' 'Piloted' Manned

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #10 on: 01/05/2013 01:58 PM »
RSC Energia presentation may 2012
lower left corner RD-180M 'Pilotiruemiy' 'Piloted' Manned

Thanks.  That's a very useful summary of various RD-170 spawn -- I have trouble remembering them all.

Edit: There's a bit more on this, including RD-180M, at http://www.parabolicarc.com/2012/10/25/energomash-test-fires-new-rd-193-engine/
« Last Edit: 01/05/2013 02:03 PM by ChileVerde »
"I canít tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline Proponent

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #11 on: 01/05/2013 02:15 PM »
RSC Energia presentation may 2012
http://www.buran.ru/htm/news.htm

lower left corner RD-180M 'Pilotiruemiy' 'Piloted' Manned

Cool diagram, thanks.

Question:  why is the left-most engine, the RD-175, labelled "SLS"?

Offline 360-180

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #12 on: 01/05/2013 02:52 PM »
This is RD-175 -1000 tonns variant of RD-171 for proposed future Zenit-derived LV
And for SLS liquid boosters (if the need arises)
« Last Edit: 01/05/2013 02:57 PM by 360-180 »

Offline Antares

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #13 on: 01/06/2013 03:19 AM »
Why the assumption that this is for an American rocket?
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline 360-180

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #14 on: 01/06/2013 08:21 AM »
Why the assumption that this is for an American rocket?
Because Russian do not have a rocket called SLS (left), they do not have LV named Atlas (Атлас - center) and named Antares (Антарес - top right)  :)

Of course this is only the thought of the possible use of these engines. RD-175 is designed for LV Energia-K, the RD-193 for the Soyuz-2-1v and Soyuz-2-3. And only RD-181 does not have its Russian LV :) Maybe Russ-M 
I think that the statements of Atlas for manned missions were delivered only after consultation with Energomash.
« Last Edit: 01/06/2013 08:37 AM by 360-180 »

Offline Antares

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #15 on: 01/07/2013 02:20 AM »
 ??? ::) You're conflating two different news articles.  The presentation is from May.  The OP's link is from a week ago.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline 360-180

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Re: RD-180 being modified for manned missions?
« Reply #16 on: 01/07/2013 09:13 AM »
From Energomash doc (2011)
Google translate
Areas of R & D - Adaptation RD180 engine for manned rocket "Atlas" (USA)
The implementation period - 2011-2012
The amount of funding trends, mln.rub. - 5.7

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