Author Topic: FAILURE: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 9, 2013 (0326UTC)  (Read 65461 times)

Offline Satori

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China and Brazil plan to launch the CBERS-3 remote sensing satellite in November 2012.

Compatibility tests took place between February 29 and March 7 in China.
« Last Edit: 12/09/2013 09:05 AM by anik »

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #1 on: 04/08/2012 10:31 AM »
On March 30 the Brazilian company 'Opto Eletrônica' sent to China the MUX camera that will be used on the CBERS-3 satellite.This camera will be used to environmental monitoring and remote sensing of natural resources.

MUX mass is 120 kg and has a 20 meter resolution (CBERS-3 will be orbited at 750 km altitude).

(Note the out of focus area on the image that shows the camera being prepared for shipment to China)

Offline Stan Black

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #2 on: 04/08/2012 02:28 PM »
(Note the out of focus area on the image that shows the camera being prepared for shipment to China)

That does not look out-of focus but deliberately obscured?

Offline limen4

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #3 on: 04/09/2012 12:19 PM »
(Note the out of focus area on the image that shows the camera being prepared for shipment to China)

That does not look out-of focus but deliberately obscured?

2 other images of Brazilian MUX camera.

Sources:
http://www.opto.com.br/Noticias.php?lingua_id=1&divisao_id=3&noticia_id=61
http://brazilianspace.blogspot.de/2009/07/opto-eletronica-entrega-camera-do-cbers.html

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #4 on: 06/29/2012 06:49 PM »
In China, it was completed another stage of CBERS-3 satellite testing before its launch, arranged for the end of the year. Experts of the National Institute for Space Research in Brazil (Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais – INPE) and of the China Academy of Space Technology (CAST) have checked the satellite self-compatibility and its electromagnetic compatibility with the launch vehicle.

These tests are necessary to prove that a satellite equipment does not interfere with another one. The simulation on Earth of all the conditions that the satellite will face, since its launch by the end of its life in space, is indispensable due the inability to repair it in orbit.

Before leaving for China, CBERS-3 had all its equipment and subsystems tested at the Integration and Testing Laboratory (LIT) of INPE, in São José dos Campos (SP).

In Brazil, the satellite has undergone several tests for electromagnetic interference and compatibility, vibration, vibracoustic and thermal vacuum further to the mass properties measurement. Now, in China, the final tests to CBERS-3 launching qualification are underway.

Efficiency

The use of satellites allows an efficiently and economic monitoring of environmental changes, both natural and those caused by humans. The observation from space is even more important for large countries such as Brazil and China.

In 1988, both countries established the CBERS Program (China-Brazil Earth Resources Satellite) to join efforts for knowledge on Earth Observation. Three satellites have been launched - CBERS-1, in 1999, CBERS-2, in 2003 and CBERS-2B, in 2007. The fourth satellite, CBERS-3, is scheduled for late 2012, while CBERS-4, for 2014.

Satellite images are essential to collect information about Earth's surface, either necessary to assess global change, forestry, agribusiness development, urban and coastal studies. Satellites are also essential to quickly obtain information about events whose location and occurrence is difficult to predict or access, such as natural disasters (floods, for example), or produced by humans (forest fires, pollution caused by oil spills at sea).

INPE daily distributes hundreds of satellite images by the internet to 1500 public and private institutions in Brazil. The availability of CBERS data allows the development of new applications of remote sensing in Brazil.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #5 on: 07/11/2012 02:10 PM »
Someone claimed that the satellite should be called (at least on the Chinese side) CBERS-1 (03) and not CBERS-3......  :-\

(http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=8808&pid=210455)
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #6 on: 07/22/2012 05:27 PM »
Launch will take place between November 20 and December 10.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #7 on: 07/22/2012 05:30 PM »
According to http://www.cbers.inpe.br/ingles/news.php?Cod_Noticia=337 the balancing tests of the CBERS-3 satellite have been concluded. Next for CBERS-3 are the acoustic vibration tests.
« Last Edit: 07/22/2012 05:32 PM by Satori »

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #8 on: 09/04/2012 11:31 AM »
Will the CBERS-3 launch be delayed?

The launch of the CBERS-3 sino-brazilian remote sensing satellite can be delayed for a few months. The cause? Some failures were identified during tests conducted in China before the satellite could be sent to the launch site. The failures were detected in some DC/DC converters on the satellite power system.

Between 18 and 24 of August, five engineers from the Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais (INPE), including the coordinator of the Segmento Espacial do Programa CBERS (CBERS Space Segment), went to the UNited States for various meetings to clear out the non-conformities and the failures of the DC/DC converters (made by the MDI - Modular Devices Incorporated), and to be used on the CBERS-3 and CBERS-4 satellites. These components were brought in 2007 and 2008 and were not affected by the ITAR restrictions.

The CBERS-2 satellite suffered from the same problem on the DC/DC converters before its launch, that led to a delay of several months.

(Text adapted from http://panoramaespacial.blogspot.pt/2012/09/cbers-3-lancamento-ameacado.html)
« Last Edit: 09/04/2012 11:32 AM by Satori »

Offline baldusi

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #9 on: 09/04/2012 09:57 PM »
And I was going to see if the translation was correct :-p

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #10 on: 09/27/2012 12:21 PM »
Rui, is there still any chance of this satellite making to orbit in 2012?

Here is a photo of CAST engineers inspecting an infrared camera for CBERS-3 (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=8807&pid=221863):
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #11 on: 09/27/2012 12:52 PM »
Rui, is there still any chance of this satellite making to orbit in 2012?


I suppose so. I the mean time I'm trying to confirm it.

I think that this article http://miit.ccidnet.com/art/40211/20120926/4311643_1.html talks about the remote sensing missions for this year and I think it says that CBERS-3 is going to be launched until the end of the year. It is in Chinese, maybe you can help?! Thanks!

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #12 on: 09/30/2012 11:01 AM »
CBERS-3 launch will probably be delayed by some time (months?) because of the problems that were found on some components of the power subsystem. The delay is being discussed between China and Brazil.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2012 or NET 2013
« Reply #13 on: 10/11/2012 11:14 AM »
Apparently this launch can still be taking place this year. The electrical tests have been completed and the satellite is now on the environmental tests. A high effort has been taking place to launch CBERS-3 this year with the Brazilian INPE sending more specialists to China to help with the preparations (resulting some delays on the preparations of other Brazilian satellites).

Still, we have to wait and see further developments on this.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2012 or NET 2013
« Reply #14 on: 10/11/2012 11:32 AM »
This article http://www.macauhub.com.mo/pt/2012/10/08/brasil-e-china-expandem-cooperacao-na-ciencia-e-tecnologia/ (in Portuguese) says the launch is schedule for November.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2012 (?)
« Reply #15 on: 11/04/2012 06:25 PM »
I haven't seen any news about this this from Brazilian sources, but the CEOS page (http://database.eohandbook.com/database/missiontable.aspx) is now giving February 2013 as the launch date for this mission. This information needs to be confirmed.
« Last Edit: 11/07/2012 08:56 PM by Satori »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #16 on: 11/05/2012 05:02 AM »
I haven't seen any news about this this from Brazilian sources, but the CEOS page (http://database.eohandbook.com/database/missiontable.aspx) is now giving February 2013 as the launch date for this mission. This information needs to be confirmed.

Looks like Xinhua News is disagreeing with you: a news article about Sino-Brazillian co-operation on the CBERS program published on November 3rd still pencils 2012 and 2014 as the launch dates for CBERS-3/4.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/world/2012-11/04/c_113599084.htm
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #17 on: 11/05/2012 09:43 AM »
I haven't seen any news about this this from Brazilian sources, but the CEOS page (http://database.eohandbook.com/database/missiontable.aspx) is now giving February 2013 as the launch date for this mission. This information needs to be confirmed.

Looks like Xinhua News is disagreeing with you: a news article about Sino-Brazillian co-operation on the CBERS program published on November 3rd still pencils 2012 and 2014 as the launch dates for CBERS-3/4.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/world/2012-11/04/c_113599084.htm

That's the information given by CEOS. Like I say, it needs to be confirmed by any of the partners in the project. But, its good news that Xinhua is saying that.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #18 on: 11/06/2012 05:22 PM »
From China.org (in Spanish): ESPECIAL: CBERS, la joya de la corona de la cooperación tecnológica Brasil-China.

So, according to this article CBERS-3 is going to be launch 'in the next weeks'.
« Last Edit: 11/06/2012 05:24 PM by Satori »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #19 on: 11/06/2012 05:26 PM »
From China.org (in Spanish): ESPECIAL: CBERS, la joya de la corona de la cooperación tecnológica Brasil-China.

So. according to this article, CBERS-3 is going to be launch 'in the next weeks'.

That begs the question of whether it or HJ-1C is launching first; unfortunately getting any launch updates from TSLC is notoriously difficult....
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #20 on: 11/06/2012 05:40 PM »
From China.org (in Spanish): ESPECIAL: CBERS, la joya de la corona de la cooperación tecnológica Brasil-China.

So. according to this article, CBERS-3 is going to be launch 'in the next weeks'.

That begs the question of whether it or HJ-1C is launching first; unfortunately getting any launch updates from TSLC is notoriously difficult....

I agree. But 'in the next weeks' is something very vague...

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #21 on: 11/06/2012 06:01 PM »
I think that the article in spanish is a translation of the article published by Xinhua a few days ago.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #22 on: 11/07/2012 08:51 PM »
'Espaço Brasileiro' ('Brazilian Space') on-line magazine available at http://www.aeb.gov.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/RevistaAEB_n13.pdf (in Portuguese) has an article about the CBERS-3 satellite.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - November 2012
« Reply #23 on: 11/07/2012 08:56 PM »
So, with the possible schedule launch of HJ-1C on November 12, the launch of CBERS-3 can only take place in December.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2012 (?)
« Reply #24 on: 11/13/2012 09:06 AM »
According to Opto envia à China câmera do satélite CBERS-4 (in Portuguese), the launch of CBERS-3 will take place in January 2013.

The news is about the transport of the MUX camera to China to be used on the CBERS-4 satellite.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - NET January 2013
« Reply #25 on: 11/22/2012 08:16 AM »
According to CBERS-3: Lançamento Pode Atrasar Até Dois Anos, Será? (in Portuguese), the launch of CBERS-3 can be delayed until two years because of the problems encountered with the DC/DC converters. In the other hand, looks like there are strong political demands to launch the satellite as soon as possible.

The article also talks about a February 2013 launch date.

Offline limen4

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - NET January 2013
« Reply #26 on: 12/11/2012 06:36 AM »
INPE hopes to launch CBERS-3 until end of first half of 2013 (http://www.sindct.org.br/index.php?q=node/2855)

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - NET January 2013
« Reply #27 on: 12/15/2012 02:09 PM »
According to http://database.eohandbook.com/database/missionsummary.aspx?missionID=392, this mission will take place in February 2013.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - February 2013
« Reply #28 on: 12/28/2012 11:35 AM »
On December 6, the INPE (Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais) contracted two companies to work on the problems on the CBERS satellites.

The Mectron company is going to re-project and substitute the IN-RUSH Circuit and change the DC/DC converters on the MV1, MV2 and MV3 transponders of the TTCS subsystem on the CBERS-3 and CBERS-4 satellites.

The Equatorial Sistemas will rework the IN-RUSH Circuit of the FM1, FM2, FM3 models and will change the DC/DC converters of the models FM1 and FM2 of the SPE from the WFI subsystem of the CBERS-3 and CBERS-4 satellites.

Information about the contracts can be seen at http://brazilianspace.blogspot.pt/2012/12/aeb-assina-quatro-novos-contratos-de.html

So probably we will see a larger delay on the launch of CBERS-3, but there are no official informations about this.
« Last Edit: 12/28/2012 11:36 AM by Satori »

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - February 2013
« Reply #29 on: 01/16/2013 12:55 PM »
The Brazilian Space Agency says that one of its main priorities for 2013 is the launch of CBERS-3. Nut, some specialists say that the tests and integration of the new DC/DC converters is a process that should take one and a half to two years, and that the launch should be delayed (as well as the launch of CBERS-4 schedule for 2014).

So, many think that here is a strong political pressure to launch CBERS-3! We should ask if China is willing to launch a satellite with a strong probability of failure in orbit?

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - TBD 2013
« Reply #30 on: 01/18/2013 05:15 PM »
We now have the confirmation of the delay of the launch of CBERS-3 that will probably take place in May or June 2013 ( Falhas Técnicas Obrigam Brasil a Adiar Lançamento de Satélite com a China in Portuguese).

Interestingly, there are strong political pressures in Brazil to launch the satellite next month. I see this as a prescription for disaster and even the May or June dates are very ambitious.

Apparently, and contrary to what was said early, the CBERS-3 will still be using the DC/DC converters manufactured by the American Modular Devices Incorporated (MDI). Some converters didn't pass the tests that were made in China. Some 20 devices were sent to the US to be tested there and 12 of those converters failed the tests. MDI concluded that not all the devices had problems, so the problematic ones were replaced.

The decision to delay the launch to February was took on November 20. Now the launch is schedule to May/June period.

Lets remember that recently two Brazilian companies were contracted also to supply the DC/DC converters, but it looks like if those converters were to be used on CBERS-3 then the launch would have to be delayed almost two years because that's the time needed to rearrange and test the satellite electrical system to operate with the new converters.
« Last Edit: 01/18/2013 05:38 PM by Satori »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - May or June 2013
« Reply #31 on: 03/02/2013 01:18 PM »
CBERS-3 camera after a thermal vacuum test. It looks like indeed that the satellite is on schedule for launch in May-June.

Source: http://210.82.31.84:9000/rp/fs/cp/98/36/20130301/2/content_4.htm
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - May or June 2013
« Reply #32 on: 03/03/2013 09:42 AM »
CBERS-3 camera after a thermal vacuum test. It looks like indeed that the satellite is on schedule for launch in May-June.

Source: http://210.82.31.84:9000/rp/fs/cp/98/36/20130301/2/content_4.htm

OK I think my message above doesn't make sense - maybe it's for CBERS-4?
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - June 2013
« Reply #33 on: 03/19/2013 05:56 PM »
Bad news for CBERS-3 :( Looks like new tests made on the «new» DC/DC converters this month had very bad results.

At this time I doubt the satellite will be launched this year or if it is launched, the Brazilian part of the satellite has a great probability of failure.

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - October 2013
« Reply #34 on: 05/10/2013 06:37 PM »
Launch of CBERS-3 is now schedule for October 2013.
« Last Edit: 05/10/2013 06:44 PM by Satori »

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - October 2013
« Reply #35 on: 05/11/2013 06:58 AM »
As I remember, the Brazilian contribution to the second CBERS also cause a great deal of concern and delay.

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - October 2013
« Reply #36 on: 08/05/2013 07:54 AM »
Confirmation that CBERS-3 will be launched on October 2013 and CBERS-4 on 2015.


Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - October 2013
« Reply #37 on: 09/02/2013 05:20 PM »
Latest informations say that the launch of CBERS-3 will be not later than November 2013.

Offline input~2

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - October/November 2013
« Reply #38 on: 09/07/2013 04:31 PM »
http://spanish.people.com.cn/92121/8392972.html (in Spanish)
The satellite is said to be ready for its launch planned for year end

Offline Satori

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2013
« Reply #39 on: 09/10/2013 04:26 PM »
According to the Brazilian Space Agency, the launch of CBERS-3 is scheduled for next December.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2013
« Reply #40 on: 09/11/2013 12:02 AM »
According to the Brazilian Space Agency, the launch of CBERS-3 is scheduled for next December.

Sounds like a good candidate for the primary payload that the cubesat from Poland is launching with.
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

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Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2013
« Reply #41 on: 09/11/2013 11:11 AM »
According to the Brazilian Space Agency, the launch of CBERS-3 is scheduled for next December.

Sounds like a good candidate for the primary payload that the cubesat from Poland is launching with.

Yes, I agree with you.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: CBERS-3 CZ-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2013
« Reply #42 on: 09/21/2013 03:30 AM »
They certainly are taking launches down to the very last day of the year....it's now schedule to launch on December 27!  8)
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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2013
« Reply #43 on: 10/04/2013 05:55 PM »
According to CBERS-3 - China e Brasil lançam ao Espaço ainda em 2013 (in Portuguese) the previously December 27th schedule launch of CBERS-3 was anticipated for the first ten days of that month.

The request to anticipate the launch was because of the New Year festivities in Brazil.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

According to CBERS-3 - China e Brasil lançam ao Espaço ainda em 2013 (in Portuguese) the previously December 27th schedule launch of CBERS-3 was anticipated for the first ten days of that month.

The request to anticipate the launch was because of the New Year festivities in Brazil.

The satellite has passed the pre-delivery reviews on October 12 and will be transported to TSLC soon for launch in early December: http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2013-10/17/c_125556330.htm
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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2013
« Reply #45 on: 10/23/2013 09:31 PM »
CBERS-3 was transported by train to the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center on October 18th. The trip to the launch center took 15 hours.

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 2013
« Reply #46 on: 11/06/2013 06:21 PM »
CBERS-3 will be launched on December 10 at 0300UTC.
« Last Edit: 11/06/2013 06:25 PM by Satori »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

CBERS-3 will be launched on December 10 at 0300UTC.

This Chinese news report on the visit to China of Brazilian vice president Michel Temer reported that the launch of CBERS-3 is on December 5. Which date is correct?
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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #48 on: 11/08/2013 10:10 AM »
A Brazilian paper says December 10 but with the strange launch site quoted their reliability could be questioned! ;)
Quote
SÃO JOSÉ DOS CAMPOS - O lançamento do satélite sino-brasileiro de sensoriamento remoto Cbers-3, no próximo dia 10 de dezembro, em Taiwan, na China, reacendeu o interesse das ...
source

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #49 on: 11/08/2013 10:27 AM »
CBERS-3 will be launched on December 10 at 0300UTC.

This Chinese news report on the visit to China of Brazilian vice president Michel Temer reported that the launch of CBERS-3 is on December 5. Which date is correct?

Com Atraso de 1 Ano, Brasil e China Definem, Enfim Data de Lançamento do Novo CBERS "With a one year delay, China and Brazil finally decide the launch date for CBERS-3"

This information was also given by the Ministério da Ciência, Tecnologia e Inovação (MCTI) - Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation of Brazil.

Also, in several interviews Leonel Perondi, Director of INPE (Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais - National Institute for Space Research) said that the launch would be on December 10.

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #50 on: 11/08/2013 10:29 AM »
A Brazilian paper says December 10 but with the strange launch site quoted their reliability could be questioned! ;)
Quote
SÃO JOSÉ DOS CAMPOS - O lançamento do satélite sino-brasileiro de sensoriamento remoto Cbers-3, no próximo dia 10 de dezembro, em Taiwan, na China, reacendeu o interesse das ...
source


Probably a journalist confused with 'Taiyuan' and 'Taiwan', that in Portuguese sound exactly the same.

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #51 on: 11/08/2013 12:10 PM »
Quote
o lançamento do satélite está programado para as 11h do dia 10 de dezembro, no horário de Pequim (zero hora, em Brasília). 
  O CBERS-3 vai substituir o CBERS-2B, que deixou de operar em 2010.

It's worth noting that CBERS-2B, which CBERS-3 is supposed to replace, was launched at 11:26am (Beijing time)
[/font]

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #52 on: 11/13/2013 05:24 PM »
The latest information I got from INPE was that the launch would take place at 10:00 local time, that gives 0200UTC

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

The latest information I got from INPE was that the launch would take place at 10:00 local time, that gives 0200UTC

That would require some deviation from the planned SSO LTDN of 10:30 - the earlier CBERS satellites were launched at 03:15, 03:16 and 03:26 UTC respectively, and I don't see any reason to move to an earlier launch time.
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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #54 on: 11/14/2013 06:31 AM »
The latest information I got from INPE was that the launch would take place at 10:00 local time, that gives 0200UTC

That would require some deviation from the planned SSO LTDN of 10:30 - the earlier CBERS satellites were launched at 03:15, 03:16 and 03:26 UTC respectively, and I don't see any reason to move to an earlier launch time.
I agree and INPE itself is confirming a 10:30am LTDN
http://www.cbers.inpe.br/sobre_satelite/orbita_cbers3e4.php

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #55 on: 11/14/2013 10:57 AM »
The latest information I got from INPE was that the launch would take place at 10:00 local time, that gives 0200UTC

That would require some deviation from the planned SSO LTDN of 10:30 - the earlier CBERS satellites were launched at 03:15, 03:16 and 03:26 UTC respectively, and I don't see any reason to move to an earlier launch time.
I agree and INPE itself is confirming a 10:30am LTDN
http://www.cbers.inpe.br/sobre_satelite/orbita_cbers3e4.php

I also found it strange, but the information I posted early came directly from INPE via email.

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #56 on: 11/14/2013 12:38 PM »
About the launch time...

Originally, Leonel Perondi, Director of INPE said that the launch would be on December 10 at 11:00 local time, also saying that the launch would take place at 00:00 Brasilia time.

Until February 16, 2014, Brazil will be on Summer Time (UTC-2h, and a 10 hour difference for Beijing). So, if the launch takes place at 11:00 local time, this will be 01:00 in Brasilia (and 0300UTC).

The information INPE told me was that the launch would take place at 10:00 local time, that is 00:00 in Brasilia (0200UTC).

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 10, 2013
« Reply #57 on: 11/18/2013 04:48 PM »
According with latest information, CBERS-3 will be launched at 0326UTC on December 9th.

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Re: CBERS-3 Long March-4B launch, Taiyuan - December 9, 2013
« Reply #58 on: 11/19/2013 05:24 AM »
According with latest information, CBERS-3 will be launched at 0326UTC on December 9th.
So exactly the same time as CBERS-2B ;)

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Any status reports from the launch site?  ;)
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Any status reports from the launch site?  ;)

Nothing new, apart from the permanent fear that this satellite will eventually fail soon after the launch. This is what the majority of the news we can find at the moment is talking about.

Offline anik

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It will be 200th Chinese orbital launch if we count KZ launch in March 2012 as orbital launch attempt: FB-1 - 8, CZ-1 - 2, CZ-2 - 4, CZ-2C - 37, CZ-2E - 7, CZ-2D - 20, CZ-2F - 11, CZ-3 - 13, CZ-3A - 23, CZ-3B - 25, CZ-3C - 10, CZ-4A - 2, CZ-4B - 19, CZ-4C - 13, KT-1 - 3, KZ - 2.

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The satellite after the Satellite Readiness Review completed on November 27th.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Found a Brazilian website that reports that the satellite was installed onto the launch vehicle adapter on November 25. Launch still scheduled on December 9: http://www.jornalbrasil.com.br/?pg=desc-noticias&id=114424&nome=Prosseguem%20os%20preparativos%20para%20lan%E7amento%20do%20CBERS-3
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CBERS-3 was transported to the launch pad on November 26. It took nearly one hour to cover the 10 km distance between the processing building and the launch pad.

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Integration of CBERS-3 with the launch vehicle...

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It will be 200th Chinese orbital launch if we count KZ launch in March 2012 as orbital launch attempt: FB-1 - 8, CZ-1 - 2, CZ-2 - 4, CZ-2C - 37, CZ-2E - 7, CZ-2D - 20, CZ-2F - 11, CZ-3 - 13, CZ-3A - 23, CZ-3B - 25, CZ-3C - 10, CZ-4A - 2, CZ-4B - 19, CZ-4C - 13, KT-1 - 3, KZ - 2

Nobody is interested in statistics? Even in China? Okay... ::)

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

It will be 200th Chinese orbital launch if we count KZ launch in March 2012 as orbital launch attempt: FB-1 - 8, CZ-1 - 2, CZ-2 - 4, CZ-2C - 37, CZ-2E - 7, CZ-2D - 20, CZ-2F - 11, CZ-3 - 13, CZ-3A - 23, CZ-3B - 25, CZ-3C - 10, CZ-4A - 2, CZ-4B - 19, CZ-4C - 13, KT-1 - 3, KZ - 2

Nobody is interested in statistics? Even in China? Okay... ::)

Probably because some of the launches in the list are not well known even to those interested in orbital launch records (e.g. only some of them have the 3rd KT-1 launch on record, never mind the probable KZ launch attempt last year!). I bet there will be much more interest in the 200th launch of a rocket named "Long March" some time late next year or early 2015....
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline anik

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It will be 200th Chinese orbital launch if we count KZ launch in March 2012 as orbital launch attempt: FB-1 - 8, CZ-1 - 2, CZ-2 - 4, CZ-2C - 37, CZ-2E - 7, CZ-2D - 20, CZ-2F - 11, CZ-3 - 13, CZ-3A - 23, CZ-3B - 25, CZ-3C - 10, CZ-4A - 2, CZ-4B - 19, CZ-4C - 13, KT-1 - 3, KZ - 2

Nobody is interested in statistics? Even in China? Okay... ::)

Probably because some of the launches in the list are not well known even to those interested in orbital launch records (e.g. only some of them have the 3rd KT-1 launch on record, never mind the probable KZ launch attempt last year!). I bet there will be much more interest in the 200th launch of a rocket named "Long March" some time late next year or early 2015....

In principle I am not surprised for a long time to bad relation to space statistics, especially after Russia missed the 3000th orbital launch in 2009. But I simply thought that there are more kindly relation to space statistics in China. Probably, I was mistaken... It should be noted that only USA very scrupulously counts launches (at least, U.S. statistics about orbital launches can be found on many sites). Okay, nevermind...
« Last Edit: 12/06/2013 03:34 PM by anik »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

It will be 200th Chinese orbital launch if we count KZ launch in March 2012 as orbital launch attempt: FB-1 - 8, CZ-1 - 2, CZ-2 - 4, CZ-2C - 37, CZ-2E - 7, CZ-2D - 20, CZ-2F - 11, CZ-3 - 13, CZ-3A - 23, CZ-3B - 25, CZ-3C - 10, CZ-4A - 2, CZ-4B - 19, CZ-4C - 13, KT-1 - 3, KZ - 2

Nobody is interested in statistics? Even in China? Okay... ::)

Probably because some of the launches in the list are not well known even to those interested in orbital launch records (e.g. only some of them have the 3rd KT-1 launch on record, never mind the probable KZ launch attempt last year!). I bet there will be much more interest in the 200th launch of a rocket named "Long March" some time late next year or early 2015....

In principle I am not surprised for a long time to bad relation to space statistics, especially after Russia missed the 3000th orbital launch in 2009. But I simply thought that there are more kindly relation to space statistics in China. Probably, I was mistaken... It should be noted that only USA very scrupulously counts launches (at least, U.S. statistics about orbital launches can be found on many sites). Okay, nevermind...

Well they do sometimes...remember the official line of XX continuous launch successes in Xinhua press releases between late 1996 and 2009? Also CALT did celebrate their 100th launch in late 2010 with several internal events (Long March 3A with Compass-IGSO 2, Dec. 17, 2010)...
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

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It will be 200th Chinese orbital launch if we count KZ launch in March 2012 as orbital launch attempt: FB-1 - 8, CZ-1 - 2, CZ-2 - 4, CZ-2C - 37, CZ-2E - 7, CZ-2D - 20, CZ-2F - 11, CZ-3 - 13, CZ-3A - 23, CZ-3B - 25, CZ-3C - 10, CZ-4A - 2, CZ-4B - 19, CZ-4C - 13, KT-1 - 3, KZ - 2

Nobody is interested in statistics? Even in China? Okay... ::)

Probably because some of the launches in the list are not well known even to those interested in orbital launch records (e.g. only some of them have the 3rd KT-1 launch on record, never mind the probable KZ launch attempt last year!). I bet there will be much more interest in the 200th launch of a rocket named "Long March" some time late next year or early 2015....

In principle I am not surprised for a long time to bad relation to space statistics, especially after Russia missed the 3000th orbital launch in 2009. But I simply thought that there are more kindly relation to space statistics in China. Probably, I was mistaken... It should be noted that only USA very scrupulously counts launches (at least, U.S. statistics about orbital launches can be found on many sites). Okay, nevermind...

In my site, every post about an orbital launch has the specific statistics associated.

Offline anik

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In my site, every post about an orbital launch has the specific statistics associated

Yes, Rui, but unfortunately you are not official representative of space agency!  ;)

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Everything is ready for the launch of the CBERS-3 satellite from the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Any signs of a live broadcast from Brazilian sources? (I guess not?)
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Any signs of a live broadcast from Brazilian sources? (I guess not?)

I'll try to check about that, but until the moment i haven't seen any indication of a broadcast.

Offline jcm

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It will be 200th Chinese orbital launch if we count KZ launch in March 2012 as orbital launch attempt: FB-1 - 8, CZ-1 - 2, CZ-2 - 4, CZ-2C - 37, CZ-2E - 7, CZ-2D - 20, CZ-2F - 11, CZ-3 - 13, CZ-3A - 23, CZ-3B - 25, CZ-3C - 10, CZ-4A - 2, CZ-4B - 19, CZ-4C - 13, KT-1 - 3, KZ - 2

Nobody is interested in statistics? Even in China? Okay... ::)

Probably because some of the launches in the list are not well known even to those interested in orbital launch records (e.g. only some of them have the 3rd KT-1 launch on record, never mind the probable KZ launch attempt last year!). I bet there will be much more interest in the 200th launch of a rocket named "Long March" some time late next year or early 2015....

Not well known, and as far as I know  for both those you mention, not confirmed to be real. (I welcome suitable evidence on this point)
And for an official Chinese statement, they would have to implicitly acknowledge these launches.
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Launch should have occurred by now. Waiting for news from the launch site...

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Spacecraft should have separated by now.
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INPE confirms successful launch of CBERS-3!


Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Hmm 1.5 hours after spacecraft separation there has been no official news from the Chinese side....  ???
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Strange, I have seen two different rumors sources saying that something failed........  :o

......... yet O Globo, the largest Brazilian newspaper, is reporting launch success...
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Strange, I have seen two different rumors sources saying that something failed........  :o

......... yet O Globo, the largest Brazilian newspaper, is reporting launch success...

Still nothing from the Chinese side. I wonder if there's something wrong with the satellite (especially considering its history) - it seems that both sources that I have mentioned above comes from CAST and not SAST, so I don't think there's a problem with the rocket. And there are many cases in history that initial satellite problems after launch were solved eventually.......
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Offline input~2

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INPE press release doesn't say much on satellite health
Quote from:  INPE Press release
O foguete chinês Longa Marcha 4B cumpriu perfeitamente todas as etapas previstas para colocação do satélite em órbita. O tempo total de voo até a injeção do CBERS em órbita foi de 12,5 minutos.      Quando atingido o ponto ideal da órbita, um comando liberou a trava do dispositivo que prendia o CBERS-3 ao foguete. O satélite, impulsionado por molas, afastou-se do lançador e entrou em órbita.      Em órbita, o CBERS-3 efetua uma revolução completa em torno da Terra a cada uma hora e quarenta minutos (100 minutos).           
http://www.inpe.br/noticias/noticia.php?Cod_Noticia=3469

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Hmm, this Brazilian news report mentions that the launch failed...... http://folha.com/no1382856
« Last Edit: 12/09/2013 08:39 AM by Galactic Penguin SST »
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Offline input~2

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Hmm, this Brazilian news report mentions that the launch failed...... [url]http://folha.com/no1382856 [/url
Said to be a launcher failure, satellite failed to reach orbit. The reporter was apparently on site.

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Hmm, this Brazilian news report mentions that the launch failed...... [url]http://folha.com/no1382856 [/url
Said to be a launcher failure, satellite failed to reach orbit. The reporter was apparently on site.

http://panoramaespacial.blogspot.pt/2013/12/cbers-3-sucesso-ou-falha.html Is saying that the satellite was launched into a wrong orbit that lead to a reentry soon after.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Well I wonder if the two governments would decide to build CBERS-5 as a replacement?
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Well I wonder if the two governments would decide to build CBERS-5 as a replacement?

This is a very, very sad end to CBERS-3. The all project was doomed with problems in the last months and one almost could imagine that something would go wrong. But, I wouldn't expect a failure in the launch vehicle.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Finally an official statement from the Chinese side: http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2013-12-09/182828926719.shtml

Any signs of one from the Brazilians?

Quote
This is a very, very sad end to CBERS-3. The all project was doomed with problems in the last months and one almost could imagine that something would go wrong. But, I wouldn't expect a failure in the launch vehicle.

In what construction phase is CBERS-4 in right now? That should have less problems with the lessons learnt on dealing with the electrical problems on CBERS-3....
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Satori

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I hope China will be more open about this failure, being this a cooperative mission I suppose they should explain what happened.

Offline Satori

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CBERS-3 was inserted in a wrong and lower than planned orbit.

The solar panel opened as expected and send telemetry signals during 15 minutes before reentering.

So, the problem was with the last stage of the CZ-4B (?)

Offline ugordan

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So, the problem was with the last stage of the CZ-4B (?)

Or one of the lower stages underperformed and the last stage was just unable to compensate. Let's wait for facts.

Offline input~2

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INPE has erased its press release on launch success


Online Chris Bergin

We need to work on the satellite's demise (re-entry), such as where it did (or will) re-enter.

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Sad news for the Brazilian team involved.

...and for the Chinese too.

Did someone at INPE jump the gun issuing a prepared press release after the rocket nominally flew beyond tracking camera range? I'm assuming whatever anomaly occurred happened after this, because otherwise they wouldn't have issued the "mission successful" release in the first place... they'd have been able to notice the controllers/ plots etc.

Wikipedia says Taiyuan is a civil+military pad, and functions as an ICBM launch site? I bring it up because I don't know how launch pad access and security work.. Are satellite customers (in this case some INPE representatives) allowed to be present at the launch centre? Or, was there no one present from the Brazilian side at the launch?

Offline input~2

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Or, was there no one present from the Brazilian side at the launch?
High ranking Brazilian representatives attended the launch among them the Minister for Sciences and Technology, Marco Antonio Raupp, and the Director of INPE, Leonel Perondi.
« Last Edit: 12/10/2013 07:53 AM by input~2 »

Offline Satori

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From Xinhua, http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2013-12/09/c_132954105.htm

China's remote-sensing satellite fails to enter orbit

TAIYUAN, Dec. 9 (Xinhua) -- China's high-resolution remote-sensing satellite Ziyuan I-03 failed to enter orbit after its launch earlier Monday, military sources said.

"The rocket malfunctioned during the flight, and the satellite failed to enter orbit," said the sources, adding that Chinese and Brazilian experts are analyzing the cause of the failure.

The satellite, jointly developed by China and Brazil, was launched at 11:26 a.m. aboard a Long March 4B rocket from Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in north China's Shanxi Province.

Offline input~2

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New press release from INPE
Quote
Lançamento do CBERS-3

Segunda-feira, 09 de Dezembro de 2013
  Às 11h26, hora de Beijing (1h26, hora de Brasília), desta segunda-feira (9/12), o satélite CBERS-3, desenvolvido conjuntamente por Brasil e China, foi lançado pelo veículo chinês Longa Marcha 4B, do Centro de Lançamentos de Satélites de Taiyuan, China. Porém, houve uma falha de funcionamento do veículo lançador durante o voo e, consequentemente, o satélite não foi posicionado na órbita prevista. Avaliações preliminares sugerem que o CBERS-3 tenha retornado ao planeta.
 Engenheiros chineses responsáveis pela construção do veículo lançador estão avaliando as causas do problema e o possível ponto de queda.
 Os dados obtidos mostram que os subsistemas do CBERS-3 funcionaram normalmente durante a tentativa de sua colocação em órbita.
 Para assegurar o cumprimento dos objetivos do programa CBERS, Brasil e China concordaram em iniciar imediatamente discussões técnicas visando a antecipação da montagem e lançamento do CBERS-4.
http://www.inpe.br/noticias/noticia.php?Cod_Noticia=3471

Offline jcm

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Chinese-language Xinhua:

http://big5.xinhuanet.com/gate/big5/news.xinhuanet.com/tech/2013-12/09/c_118484246.htm

Satellite is  ziyuan yi hao 03 xing    (ZY One satellite 03)
Same details as in English version
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
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Offline input~2

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According to INPE (quoted by Globo), the cause of the failure was a premature cutoff of the 3rd stage engine 11 seconds earlier than nominal
The altitude reached was 720 km instead of 778 km planned. The velocity reached was not enough to maintain an orbital flight

(source in Portuguese: http://g1.globo.com/sp/vale-do-paraiba-regiao/noticia/2013/12/corte-antecipado-na-propulsao-impediu-cbers-3-de-manter-orbita-diz-inpe.html)

Offline input~2

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Offline jcm

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I made a rough estimate based on CBERS 2B and an 11s shortfall in the burn and 720 km apogee.
I get an orbit around  -153 x 720 km x 98.5 deg, with impact  in the Antarctic around 0407 UTC.
However, the uncertainties are large.

« Last Edit: 12/09/2013 09:06 PM by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
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Online Chris Bergin

I made a rough estimate based on CBERS 2B and an 11s shortfall in the burn and 720 km apogee.
I get an orbit around  -153 x 720 km x 98.5 deg, with impact  in the Antarctic around 0407 UTC.
However, the uncertainties are large.



Thanks Jonathan. I'll use that, while noting it's an estimation.

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I made a rough estimate based on CBERS 2B and an 11s shortfall in the burn and 720 km apogee.
I get an orbit around  -153 x 720 km x 98.5 deg, with impact  in the Antarctic around 0407 UTC.
However, the uncertainties are large.
I was skeptical at first, since this third stage is supposed to burn for more than 6 minutes, but it turns out that 11 seconds is all it takes with this relatively heavy payload to fall short - way short.  Something like 270 meters/second short, give or take.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline jcm

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I made a rough estimate based on CBERS 2B and an 11s shortfall in the burn and 720 km apogee.
I get an orbit around  -153 x 720 km x 98.5 deg, with impact  in the Antarctic around 0407 UTC.
However, the uncertainties are large.
I was skeptical at first, since this third stage is supposed to burn for more than 6 minutes, but it turns out that 11 seconds is all it takes with this relatively heavy payload to fall short - way short.  Something like 270 meters/second short, give or take.

 - Ed Kyle

I got 270m/s at first, but when I included some planned residuals (I estimated 600 kg of resid prop given
the difference between the burn time and the estimated potential burn time given max prop load) it came
down to 240 m/s.  Mind you, the error bar on that resid is probably +/- 100 percent.
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Lewis007

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Some photos of the launch processing can be found here:
http://www.cbers.inpe.br/galeria_fotos/lancamento_cbers3.php
« Last Edit: 12/10/2013 08:20 AM by Lewis007 »

Offline robertross

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Just read about the failure from the news article. Very sad news indeed.
I have to wonder if, being that there was Hydrazine on board, and if indeed it did crash on Antarctica, if any would have survived re-entry?
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline input~2

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The story of the failure as experienced by a reporter with the Brazilian delegation attending the launch
(in Portuguese): http://www.blogdaretrato.com.br/2013/12/rb-na-china-o-fracasso-do-lancamento-do.html
« Last Edit: 12/10/2013 03:13 PM by input~2 »

Offline woods170

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According to INPE (quoted by Globo), the cause of the failure was a premature cutoff of the 3rd stage engine 11 seconds earlier than nominal
The altitude reached was 720 km instead of 778 km planned. The velocity reached was not enough to maintain an orbital flight

(source in Portuguese: http://g1.globo.com/sp/vale-do-paraiba-regiao/noticia/2013/12/corte-antecipado-na-propulsao-impediu-cbers-3-de-manter-orbita-diz-inpe.html)


Failure of the third stage now being confirmed by China's launch service provider:

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/38585china-blames-long-march-failure-on-third-stage-malfunction
« Last Edit: 12/10/2013 06:34 PM by woods170 »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Hmm there are reports that the rocket used on this launch has been stored for several years already (in fact someone said that it's CZ-4B s/n Y10), and it might already been in Taiyuan since late last year. Long storage issues maybe?  ::)
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline AJA

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The story of the failure as experienced by a reporter with the Brazilian delegation attending the launch
(in Portuguese): http://www.blogdaretrato.com.br/2013/12/rb-na-china-o-fracasso-do-lancamento-do.html

AIUI, that post seems to imply that satellite separation happened... even though the stage didn't achieve orbit.

I guess that's possible - and may even have been programmed - if your U/S doesn't have restart capability, then there' nothing you lose by triggering satellite sep through a timer linked to engine cut-off? (Yeah, maybe RCS can give you some dV, but it's nothing the satellite couldn't do on its own..?)

Online pargoo

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    Any launch pics in the offing..?

Offline russianhalo117

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    Any launch pics in the offing..?
Highly unlikely since the launch failed. That stance is pretty much standard policy for almost all Chinese launch failures.

Offline russianhalo117

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Hmm there are reports that the rocket used on this launch has been stored for several years already (in fact someone said that it's CZ-4B s/n Y10), and it might already been in Taiyuan since late last year. Long storage issues maybe?  ::)
I read same thing and although not officially confirmed I do agree with that scenario.

Offline jcm

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The story of the failure as experienced by a reporter with the Brazilian delegation attending the launch
(in Portuguese): http://www.blogdaretrato.com.br/2013/12/rb-na-china-o-fracasso-do-lancamento-do.html

AIUI, that post seems to imply that satellite separation happened... even though the stage didn't achieve orbit.

I guess that's possible - and may even have been programmed - if your U/S doesn't have restart capability, then there' nothing you lose by triggering satellite sep through a timer linked to engine cut-off? (Yeah, maybe RCS can give you some dV, but it's nothing the satellite couldn't do on its own..?)

That is actually pretty common - automatic separation after final stage shutdown - and indeed has occurred plenty of times
on late-phase launch failures.
-----------------------------

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     Infantile behaviour, revealing true colors of a prison-state...if we don't publish launch pics it didn't happen.

Offline Satori

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     Infantile behaviour, revealing true colors of a prison-state...if we don't publish launch pics it didn't happen.

The pictures will eventually see the daylight...

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Since people do go to Taiyuan to watch rocket launch, I'll see if anyone posts in Chinese forums. But I doubt it, as it is considered bad luck to do so. Especially with CE-3 about to land soon.

There is pic of the rocket just before launch though.
http://www.shenkong.net/News/1312/CBERS-3WXLSFSTJ-BXGCJTGMFS08071146.htm

Interesting some of Chinese news sites are using 2011's Zhiyuan-16 lunch to substitute for lack of a launch picture...
http://www.baxue.com/wuqipingshuo/29081.html


« Last Edit: 12/14/2013 07:47 AM by luhai167 »

Offline Phillip Clark

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I note that the first link above gives the mass of CBERS 3 as being 1.98 t: I am assuming metric tonnes, not imperial tons.

Offline input~2

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For the record here is a picture posted December 9 at 0336UTC by a microblogger based in Taiyuan

Offline akula2

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Very unfortunate loss.

Just wondering whether the Chinese insured the Satellite or Brazilians?

Offline input~2

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Very unfortunate loss.

Just wondering whether the Chinese insured the Satellite or Brazilians?

Brazilian media said that the satellite was not insured.
Quote from:  O Globo
O governo brasileiro investiu R$ 160 milhões no projeto. O satélite não era resguardado por nenhum tipo de seguro.
« Last Edit: 12/16/2013 05:11 AM by input~2 »

Offline akula2

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Thanks for the info, input~2

$160 million is like one medium-scale company with 500-600 'heads' so all that money went for a toss? Not to forget time delay costs + commercial/science losses (failure)  :o

I always get jittery about Satellite launches, but never once while conducting Clinical Trials!

« Last Edit: 12/16/2013 05:44 AM by akula2 »

Offline input~2

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$160 million is like ....

That was 160 millions Brazilian Real equivalent to about 69 millions US Dollars
Corresponding to the Brazilian 50% share for the program
« Last Edit: 12/16/2013 06:26 AM by input~2 »

Offline anik

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Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes
China Great Wall Industry Corp: Dec. 9 LM-4B failure caused by fuel-flow depletion to engine #2 of 3rd stage. Root cause still unclear.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/38689china%E2%80%99s-great-wall-cites-fuel-flow-issue-in-rocket-failure

"PARIS — China’s launch service provider on Dec. 16 said the Dec. 9 failure of its Long March 4B rocket was caused by the premature shutdown of the second of two third-stage engines because of reduced fuel flow.

In a statement, Beijing-based China Great Wall Industry Corp. said the failure investigation, headed by Wang Haoping of the Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology, was continuing to determine the reasons behind the reduction in fuel supplied to the engine"
« Last Edit: 12/16/2013 04:06 PM by anik »

Offline akula2

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That was 160 millions Brazilian Real equivalent to about 69 millions US Dollars
Corresponding to the Brazilian 50% share for the program
I got you. Still it's quite a good money. I think they ignored Insurance due to high Premium costs etc. 

Offline baldusi

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That was 160 millions Brazilian Real equivalent to about 69 millions US Dollars
Corresponding to the Brazilian 50% share for the program
I got you. Still it's quite a good money. I think they ignored Insurance due to high Premium costs etc.
One off projects are usually not insured, but self-insured. In particular, this mission was made by bartering parts, so determining an actual price, would be very difficult, and much of it would be research and not replacement cost.
But more in general, one off projects like these, where there's not a clear economic return, and specially since they have already developing a replacement (CBERS-4), there's no point in the extra cost of insurance. Besides, insurance goes to the general government budget and not to the space agency, so they wouldn't get it anyways.

Offline Star One

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Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes
China Great Wall Industry Corp: Dec. 9 LM-4B failure caused by fuel-flow depletion to engine #2 of 3rd stage. Root cause still unclear.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/38689china%E2%80%99s-great-wall-cites-fuel-flow-issue-in-rocket-failure

"PARIS — China’s launch service provider on Dec. 16 said the Dec. 9 failure of its Long March 4B rocket was caused by the premature shutdown of the second of two third-stage engines because of reduced fuel flow.

In a statement, Beijing-based China Great Wall Industry Corp. said the failure investigation, headed by Wang Haoping of the Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology, was continuing to determine the reasons behind the reduction in fuel supplied to the engine"

Link is saying page doesn't exist.

This appears to be the working link.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/38689china’s-great-wall-cites-fuel-flow-issue-in-rocket-failure
« Last Edit: 12/16/2013 05:14 PM by Star One »

Offline input~2

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Quote
As far as I know, the rocket had a problem in the mixture of the fuel with the oxidant that controls the level of performance of the rocket and that mixture was flawed. The rocket had its third engine off ten seconds before what was needed, so the satellite speed was not enough to keep it in orbit ", described the [Brazilian communications] minister, who was in China to accompany the launch
(source in Portuguese)

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Whoops, looks like the problem is an old one in rocket manufacturing.......  ::)

Quote
Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes

China Great Wall Indstry: Dec LM-4B failure caused by debris from vehicle pressurization feed systm or assembly of the 3rd stge engine.

Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes

China Great Wall Indstry: Quality control re debris prevention in LM-4B 3rd stge AIT will be strengthened following review of Dec. failure.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/440367502665601024

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/440368116212588544

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/39687china-great-wall-pins-december-long-march-launch-failure-on-fuel-line
« Last Edit: 03/04/2014 10:36 AM by Galactic Penguin SST »
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Phillip Clark

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The CBERS 1, 2 and 2B satellites were classified as being the Ziyuan-1 programme.

Do we know if CBERS 3 was also Ziyuan-1 (in which case, what was its number? - 3??) or whether it was possibly Ziyuan-4 since we have already had flights in the Ziyuan-2 and -3 series?

Offline William Graham

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The CBERS 1, 2 and 2B satellites were classified as being the Ziyuan-1 programme.

Do we know if CBERS 3 was also Ziyuan-1 (in which case, what was its number? - 3??) or whether it was possibly Ziyuan-4 since we have already had flights in the Ziyuan-2 and -3 series?

I have it as Ziyuan I-03

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

After today's successful launch of GF-2, a bit more information about this botched launch has come out:

- due to blockage in one of the 3rd stage engines, it did not provide enough thrust to reach the planned velocity of 7.9 km/s, instead CBERS-3 was released at only 7.1 km/s.
- after the botched launch SAST pulled back the rocket used today back to Shanghai for detailed inspection - every single engine to be used for future flights has been carefully tested and all pipelines has been inspected for foreign objects.
- new pipelines has been added (around the filters I guess?) to make it triple redundant

Source
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline northenarc

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 Not too dissimilar to some of the issues Russia had with the Proton 3rd stage over the years. I have no idea, but maybe hypergolic engines are more prone or sensitive to debris in the lines for some reason. Just speculating.

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