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limen4
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« Reply #32 on: 05/13/2012 03:30 PM » |
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USSTRATCOM has just identified several 2nd stages or debris from various CZ-2C/2D launches dating back up to 5 years and including this last one for TH-1B
38262/2007-019 & 38263/2007-019C for CZ-2D YG-2 launched in 2007
38264/2008-061C for CZ-2D YG-4 launched in 200838265/2009-069B & 38266/2009-069C for CZ-2CD YG-7 launched in 2009
38267/2010-040B & 38268/2010-040C for CZ-2D TH-1 launched in 201038269/2012-020B & 38270/2012-020C for CZ-2D TH-1B
Edited from comments received
The CZ-2D launches of YG-2. YG-4, YG-7, YG-11, TH-1(01), TH-1(02) are very mysterious from a certain point of view. Each payload is a CAST2000-based satellite with a total mass of about 700kg plus some additional pico satellites of 2-3 kg mass. The payload capability of CZ-2D for 645 km SSO is about 1300kg (according to http://www.cgwic.com/LaunchServices/LaunchVehicle/LM2D.html). I asked at 9ifly for the reason of such a waste of launch capacity. A possible explanation was that some payloads have been originally aimed for launches with KT-1 or KT-1A. But the “debris” announcement by USSTRATCOM could lead to an alternatively explanation. Have additionally payloads been launched?
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Phillip Clark
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« Reply #33 on: 05/13/2012 03:57 PM » |
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USSTRATCOM has just identified several 2nd stages or debris from various CZ-2C/2D launches dating back up to 5 years and including this last one for TH-1B
38262/2007-019 & 38263/2007-019C for CZ-2D YG-2 launched in 2007
38264/2008-061C for CZ-2D YG-4 launched in 200838265/2009-069B & 38266/2009-069C for CZ-2CD YG-7 launched in 2009
38267/2010-040B & 38268/2010-040C for CZ-2D TH-1 launched in 201038269/2012-020B & 38270/2012-020C for CZ-2D TH-1B
Edited from comments received
The CZ-2D launches of YG-2. YG-4, YG-7, YG-11, TH-1(01), TH-1(02) are very mysterious from a certain point of view. Each payload is a CAST2000-based satellite with a total mass of about 700kg plus some additional pico satellites of 2-3 kg mass. The payload capability of CZ-2D for 645 km SSO is about 1300kg (according to http://www.cgwic.com/LaunchServices/LaunchVehicle/LM2D.html). I asked at 9ifly for the reason of such a waste of launch capacity. A possible explanation was that some payloads have been originally aimed for launches with KT-1 or KT-1A. But the “debris” announcement by USSTRATCOM could lead to an alternatively explanation. Have additionally payloads been launched?
We have the following small satellite which was announced but which has not been catalogued: MEMS Pico Satellite - launched with Yaogan 2 It is possible that this might be either 38262 or 38263. I would guess that the other pieces of debris now catalogued are the final stage separation motor covers, ejected with sufficient forward velocity for them to remain in orbit - like the satellite - after the rocket stages were de-orbited.
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input~2
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« Reply #34 on: 05/13/2012 05:13 PM » |
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Looking at the orbital parameters for these objects, I would tend to agree with Phil that they are rather separation solid retro engines fairing covers than "unofficial" payloads.
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Phillip Clark
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« Reply #35 on: 05/13/2012 05:34 PM » |
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Looking at the orbital parameters for these objects, I would tend to agree with Phil that they are rather separation solid retro engines fairing covers than "unofficial" payloads.
Yes, these are the pieces of debris associated with the four solid-propellant separation motors. Normally there are two pairs of these from each of the launches, one pair having apogees significantly higher than the other pair. This means that MEMS Pico Satellite from the Yaogan 2 launch has still to be identified in orbit. Maybe it failed to separate from the rocket stage (if that is where it was attached) and was de-orbited with the stage?
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input~2
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« Reply #36 on: 05/14/2012 06:20 AM » |
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FWIW USSTRATCOM has now renamed 35575/2008-061B from CZ-2D DEB to YAOGAN 4 DEB
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input~2
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« Reply #37 on: 05/14/2012 04:00 PM » |
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Looking at the orbital parameters for these objects, I would tend to agree with Phil that they are rather separation solid retro engines fairing covers than "unofficial" payloads.
Well, USSTRATCOM identifies them as S/C debris not CZ-2D debris  38262 YAOGAN 2 DEB 2007-019B 38263 YAOGAN 2 DEB 2007-019C 38264 YAOGAN 4 DEB 2008-061C 38265 YAOGAN 7 DEB 2009-069B 38266 YAOGAN 7 DEB 2009-069C 38267 TIANHUI 1 DEB 2010-040B 38268 TIANHUI 1 DEB 2010-040C 38269 TIANHUI 1-02 DEB 2012-020B 38270 TIANHUI 1-02 DEB 2012-020C
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Phillip Clark
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« Reply #38 on: 05/14/2012 05:55 PM » |
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Looking at the orbital parameters for these objects, I would tend to agree with Phil that they are rather separation solid retro engines fairing covers than "unofficial" payloads.
Well, USSTRATCOM identifies them as S/C debris not CZ-2D debris
38262 YAOGAN 2 DEB 2007-019B
38263 YAOGAN 2 DEB 2007-019C
38264 YAOGAN 4 DEB 2008-061C
38265 YAOGAN 7 DEB 2009-069B
38266 YAOGAN 7 DEB 2009-069C
38267 TIANHUI 1 DEB 2010-040B
38268 TIANHUI 1 DEB 2010-040C
38269 TIANHUI 1-02 DEB 2012-020B
38270 TIANHUI 1-02 DEB 2012-020C
Perhaps this is because the rockets did not reman in orbit.
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fringe_dweller
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« Reply #39 on: 05/14/2012 07:03 PM » |
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One deb of YG-4 was registered more early - as US cat. number 35575.
I.e. all JB-6 and TH-1 satellites have standard two deb in the each launch.
And, YG-11 have 2 Zheda Pixing nanosats. Another Zheda Pixing nanosat was launched with YG-2, but it was not registered by US Space Command.
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fringe_dweller
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« Reply #40 on: 05/14/2012 08:44 PM » |
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16 launches of CZ-2D in the table.
Columns:
1. - Position number
2. - Names of payloads
3. - LV serial number
4. - Int. designation
5. - Number of objects in the launch
6. - Number of objects in the launch, which was ident. at once after launch
7. - Number of objects in the launch, which was ident. later
8. - Description
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jcm
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« Reply #41 on: 05/15/2012 04:53 AM » |
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USSTRATCOM has just identified several 2nd stages or debris from various CZ-2C/2D launches dating back up to 5 years and including this last one for TH-1B
38262/2007-019 & 38263/2007-019C for CZ-2D YG-2 launched in 2007
38264/2008-061C for CZ-2D YG-4 launched in 200838265/2009-069B & 38266/2009-069C for CZ-2CD YG-7 launched in 2009
38267/2010-040B & 38268/2010-040C for CZ-2D TH-1 launched in 201038269/2012-020B & 38270/2012-020C for CZ-2D TH-1B
Edited from comments received
The CZ-2D launches of YG-2. YG-4, YG-7, YG-11, TH-1(01), TH-1(02) are very mysterious from a certain point of view. Each payload is a CAST2000-based satellite with a total mass of about 700kg plus some additional pico satellites of 2-3 kg mass. The payload capability of CZ-2D for 645 km SSO is about 1300kg (according to http://www.cgwic.com/LaunchServices/LaunchVehicle/LM2D.html). I asked at 9ifly for the reason of such a waste of launch capacity. A possible explanation was that some payloads have been originally aimed for launches with KT-1 or KT-1A. But the “debris” announcement by USSTRATCOM could lead to an alternatively explanation. Have additionally payloads been launched?
DO we really know the masses of these satellites? The basic CAST-2000 may be 700 kg but could easily have heavy internal instruments added...
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limen4
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« Reply #42 on: 05/15/2012 06:02 AM » |
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DO we really know the masses of these satellites? The basic CAST-2000 may be 700 kg but could easily have heavy internal instruments added...
According to technical specifications given by CAST and CGWIC the bus mass of CAST-2000 is 200-400 kg and the payload capacity is 300-600 kg. In 2006 technical specifications of the Advanced Remote Sensing Satellite (ARS), which is very likely the Yaogan-2, were issued. A total weight of 700kg was told.
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jcm
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« Reply #43 on: 05/15/2012 10:02 PM » |
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DO we really know the masses of these satellites? The basic CAST-2000 may be 700 kg but could easily have heavy internal instruments added...
According to technical specifications given by CAST and CGWIC the bus mass of CAST-2000 is 200-400 kg and the payload capacity is 300-600 kg. In 2006 technical specifications of the Advanced Remote Sensing Satellite (ARS), which is very likely the Yaogan-2, were issued. A total weight of 700kg was told.
OK thanks. Still potential for a few hundred kg mass growth over the past 6 years... compare for example India's RISAT-1 to the early sats using the IRS bus as an extreme example. But perhaps there haven't been significant upgrades.
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