Author Topic: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013  (Read 123102 times)

Online grythumn

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 147
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #40 on: 08/31/2013 05:02 AM »
I took the day off, so I was going to head out Friday morning and scout out good places to watch from, and then set up my tent over on Assateague. I figure if the launch gets delayed, oh well, I get a couple of late beach days. :)

-Bob

Bob, in case you weren't aware there's no camping allowed on the VA end of Assateague.  The only camping on Assateauge is up on the northern end which you access through Ocean City, MD. 

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/chinco/generalregulations.html


Yep, I made reservations in the MD park up there. It's a little far, and I'll probably pick somewhere closer next time, but it's already done and paid for. :)

-Bob

Offline AnalogMan

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3007
  • Cambridge, UK
  • Liked: 774
  • Likes Given: 24

Offline tokarev

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #42 on: 09/01/2013 05:04 PM »
Why does the fifth stage need to spin?

Offline Jarnis

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1133
  • Liked: 581
  • Likes Given: 159
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #43 on: 09/01/2013 05:14 PM »
Why does the fifth stage need to spin?

Spin is used to stabilize rockets that do not have steering. Spun up, they keep going where they were pointed at when ignited.


Offline tokarev

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #44 on: 09/01/2013 05:31 PM »
Thanks Jarnis for the asnwer!

For those who interested: Doug Voss from Nasa Wallops explains the spin stabilization during the NASA briefing on LADEE: http://youtu.be/hTzo0Lq1-T4?t=35m53s

Offline TJL

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1151
  • Liked: 15
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #45 on: 09/01/2013 05:52 PM »
Weather permitting I plan on watching the launch Friday evening from Long Island. We actually had a great view of Antares in April.

I was looking at the launch profile and was wondering why is there almost 4 minutes between 3rd stage burnout and 3rd stage separation?

Isn't that a long period of time to drag along that extra weight?
Thank you.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32425
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11164
  • Likes Given: 331
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #46 on: 09/01/2013 07:56 PM »

Isn't that a long period of time to drag along that extra weight?
Thank you.

It isn't "dragging" if it is coasting

Offline Antares

  • ABO^2
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5201
  • Done arguing with amateurs
  • Liked: 368
  • Likes Given: 226
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #47 on: 09/01/2013 09:35 PM »
Also, the extra mass and moment of inertia can help limit attitude disturbances.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline TJL

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1151
  • Liked: 15
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #48 on: 09/01/2013 10:08 PM »
Thanks, Jim and Antares!

Online edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12878
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 3934
  • Likes Given: 752
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #49 on: 09/03/2013 03:01 AM »
Several photos posted include the attached, which shows the Minotaur V.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
  • Liked: 2892
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #50 on: 09/03/2013 02:37 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/us/new-moon-probe-raises-questions-about-what-to-do-next-in-space.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130901&_r=0


August 31, 2013
New Moon Probe Raises Questions About What to Do Next in Space
By CAROLINE CHEN

The last moon mission on NASA’s current schedule — a small, unmanned spacecraft that will study moon dust and the lunar atmosphere — is scheduled to launch on Friday from Wallops Island, Va., elating scientists who study the moon but highlighting political questions about what NASA should do next.

The Smart Car-size spacecraft, which NASA calls the Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer, will take 30 days to get into orbit around the moon, spend the next 30 days checking its equipment and proceed with scientific work for 100 days, searching for water molecules in the atmosphere and gathering data about the curious substance known as lunar dust. Then the probe, which goes by the acronym Ladee (pronounced laddie), will take a death plunge into the rocky surface of the subject it is studying.

The results of the scientific program could be helpful in preparing for future manned missions to the moon. Although NASA currently does not have such plans, some members of Congress have called on the space agency to return to the moon rather than pursuing its current space objectives.

SNIP

But NASA has continued sending unmanned spacecraft to the moon; the coming mission will be the third to go there in five years. While scientists are excited about what the experiment may yield, they are also concerned about the absence of future moon voyages on NASA’s schedule.

“If you’re going to fly this mission with the goal of understanding the atmosphere and how dust might affect future human missions, and you don’t have the future human missions, then part of the reason for the mission disappears,” said David Kring, senior staff scientist at the Lunar and Planetary Institute, a NASA-financed research institute in Houston.

Even if NASA sits on the sidelines, traffic to the moon will be busy. China announced last week that it would land its first exploratory rover on the moon by the end of the year. India, Japan, Russia and the European Space Agency also have unmanned missions in the works. And Google is sponsoring a competition called the Lunar X Prize, offering up to $20 million to the first company that can send a robotic spacecraft to the moon by 2015 and make it perform certain tasks.

SNIP

The spacecraft will search for water in the very thin lunar atmosphere, which is estimated to be 1/100,000th the density of Earth’s, perhaps similar to Mercury’s. Scientists want to find out how the ice on the moon’s poles managed to get there, said Richard Elphic, project scientist for the mission. They speculate that water molecules in the moon’s atmosphere may have migrated toward the poles and frozen in place, he said.

SNIP

The orbiter will also examine the movements of lunar dust. “Dust” is a bit of a misnomer, the scientists said: the crushed debris is extremely fine but also has jagged, sharp edges, since there is no wind or water on the moon’s surface to wear it down.

“It’s certainly more annoying than terrestrial dust,” said Sarah Noble, program scientist for the mission. “It’s like shards of glass, and it sticks to everything. If it gets into your eyes or your skin, it’s abrasive and it hurts. It also really gums up machinery.”

The dust poses a risk to robots and humans alike, as it can wreak havoc on equipment and spacesuits. Understanding the way the dust moves through the atmosphere will help scientists better prepare for longer missions on the moon, Dr. Elphic said.

Not everyone agrees that dust is a major concern. “Dust on the lunar surface does not pose a serious risk to future lunar exploration,” Dr. Kring said, pointing out that astronauts managed to survive the dust without major problems. But he still saw value in the dust inquiry, saying, “We always want to reduce the risk, and to understand the dust phenomenon in and of itself is worthwhile.”

NASA said the launching would break technological ground. Previously, spacecraft were custom-made for each mission and the models were not reusable. But this spacecraft was designed for assembly-line production, so that future missions could save money by using identical components.

The spacecraft’s design and construction cost $125 million out of a mission price of $250 million, said Dwayne Brown, a NASA spokesman. If the same design were used again, Mr. Brown said, NASA estimates that the cost would drop to $90 million for the first spacecraft and then over time to $55 million each. At the moment, though, NASA does not have other projects lined up to reuse the model, he said.

SNIP

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
  • Liked: 2892
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #51 on: 09/03/2013 02:41 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/us/new-moon-probe-raises-questions-about-what-to-do-next-in-space.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130901&_r=0

"NASA said the launching would break technological ground. Previously, spacecraft were custom-made for each mission and the models were not reusable. But this spacecraft was designed for assembly-line production, so that future missions could save money by using identical components."

That's the kind of statement that really requires a footnote. There have been numerous efforts in the past to try and design "assembly line" spacecraft. It really only works for spacecraft that have a relatively high production rate, like comsats. It has never worked for science spacecraft, because usually there are many years between projects, and by the time you go to build another one, subcontractors have gone out of business, alloys have changed, parts are no longer in use or certified, etc.

In addition, no two science spacecraft are ever the same (unless they are joint spacecraft, like some of the solar explorers). So although LADEE is going to the Moon, the same bus may not work at Venus or Mars because of different thermal and power environments.

It just doesn't work out. Even efforts to design common spacecraft buses have floundered.
« Last Edit: 09/03/2013 02:52 PM by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
  • Liked: 2892
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #52 on: 09/03/2013 02:50 PM »
NASA press kit now available:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf

For some reason Firefox is giving me an "untrusted connection" warning for that site. But I tried Google and it took me to the same site, so I suspect that there is something wrong with NASA's coding. I downloaded the file, but it is 23 megs for a relatively small pdf.

Offline robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17804
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 462
  • Likes Given: 4278
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #53 on: 09/03/2013 03:44 PM »
NASA press kit now available:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf

For some reason Firefox is giving me an "untrusted connection" warning for that site. But I tried Google and it took me to the same site, so I suspect that there is something wrong with NASA's coding. I downloaded the file, but it is 23 megs for a relatively small pdf.

I had a similar warning message with IE.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline spacedog71

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #54 on: 09/03/2013 04:20 PM »
The above information indicates public viewing will not be allowed closer than an absurdly far 10 miles, at least with a view.

My gut feeling here, is they are overly concerned with people clogging up small streets or treading on private land, so the solution is to direct everyone to a wide open area (by comparison) despite it being so far away.

...oy. won't have time to worry about commercial shipping traffic (inevitably) threatening the launch; i'll be too preoccupied with trying to get to the right parking lot in time.

i ended up going to arbuckle for the antares demo launch on april 21st, but the previous attempt/scrub on april 17th seemed to have *quite* a large number of spillover traffic parked outside the fence on the side of 175/chincoteague road in front of the visitor center after they closed the gate, which probably pose hazards of various types.

delaware north may still have the parking placard templates that were used at KSCVC...

Offline BlueSpace

  • Member
  • Posts: 1
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #55 on: 09/03/2013 04:30 PM »
Hey guys, me and a couple friends were thinking about driving up and watching this at Wallops, what would be the best time to get there in order to get a good view of the launch? This will be our first time watching a launch.

Thanks!

Offline catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5504
  • Viewed launches since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 2121
  • Likes Given: 1482
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #56 on: 09/03/2013 08:51 PM »
Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer: Mission Overview (Updated)

Published on Sep 3, 2013
NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the lunar atmosphere, conditions near the surface and environmental influences on lunar dust. Scheduled to launch from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia on Sept. 6, 2013, LADEE is the first spacecraft designed, developed, built, integrated and tested at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif.

The video presents the reasons for the mission, the science of the mission and how the public can help the LADEE team with its collection of data as LADEE orbits the Moon. This version of the video contains an updated section on the science instruments aboard the spacecraft

Tony De La Rosa

Offline rayleighscatter

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1029
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 480
  • Likes Given: 228
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #57 on: 09/03/2013 10:17 PM »
"In partnership with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Accomack County Board of Supervisors and the Town of Chincoteague, visitors to the area may view the launch from Robert Reed Park on Chincoteague or Beach Road spanning the area between Chincoteague and Assateague Islands.

The two sites will feature the LADEE launch countdown live and NASA personnel will be on hand to discuss the LADEE mission. In addition, a live broadcast of the launch operations will be shown on a big-screen projector in Robert Reed Park beginning at 9:30 p.m. on the day of launch."

from http://esc.gsfc.nasa.gov/267/278/279/468.html

Online edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12878
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 3934
  • Likes Given: 752
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #58 on: 09/04/2013 03:45 AM »
I've seen a number of reports that this will be the first launch to send a payload beyond Earth orbit from Wallops Island.  Although this is a first lunar mission for Wallops, it is not correct, as I understand things, to say that the Minotaur V launch itself will send LADEE beyond Earth orbit. 

After the Minotaur V Star 37FM fifth stage burns out, LADEE will separate into a highly elliptical earth orbit.  The spacecraft will gradually propel itself through a series of similar elliptical "phasing orbits" over several weeks before it finally begins to approach the Moon.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 09/04/2013 03:48 AM by edkyle99 »

Offline block51

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 252
  • Liked: 36
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
« Reply #59 on: 09/04/2013 11:35 AM »
The above information indicates public viewing will not be allowed closer than an absurdly far 10 miles, at least with a view.

My gut feeling here, is they are overly concerned with people clogging up small streets or treading on private land, so the solution is to direct everyone to a wide open area (by comparison) despite it being so far away.

That's pretty much right. I've heard that the farmer that owns all the land down near the water on Arbuckle Neck Rd was none too happy about people getting stuck in his fields and generally (reportedly...) messing things up during the Antares launch. If he wanted to make some money he'd charge 20 bucks a head for parking. A car's worth of area must be worth 20 bucks of crops. For that matter he might only have field cover planted right now.

Ok, sorry for the slight derail. Check out jsmjr's map from the Antares viewing thread for some ideas on where to try and watch the launch from. http://goo.gl/maps/7SDDv

Granted there is a fair amount of Antares specific info, but I'm pretty sure people can figure it out.

Tags: