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jacqmans
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« on: 02/28/2012 05:04 PM » |
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Canada hosts the International Space Station Heads of Agencies Meeting
in Quebec City
Longueuil, Quebec, February 29, 2012 – The Canadian Space Agency (CSA) is hosting the International Space Station Heads of Agencies meeting in Quebec City on March 1st.
The heads of the International Space Station partners will discuss cooperation in space exploration; the use, maintenance and future of the ISS and the benefits of the Space Station for humanity.
Media are invited to attend a press conference following the meeting.
When: Thursday, March 1, 2012
Time: 1:00 p.m.
Who: Steve MacLean, President, Canadian Space Agency
Charles Bolden, NASA Administrator (USA)
Jean-Jacques Dordain, Director General, European Space Agency (ESA)
Vladimir Popovkin, Director, Roscosmos (Russia)
Keiji Tachikawa, President, Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA)
Where: Château Frontenac
Salon Bellevue
1, rue des Carrières
Quebec City (Québec)
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« on: 02/28/2012 05:04 PM » |
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robertross
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« Reply #1 on: 02/28/2012 05:10 PM » |
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Oh well, the Chateau Frontenac...excuse me...lol
I hope for some good news to come out of this meeting for ISS
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robertross
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« Reply #2 on: 02/29/2012 04:57 PM » |
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Additional details on this story (totally peeved personally at gov't of Canada): Canada's space station future up in the airInternational partners have signed on until 2020, except Canada The Canadian Press Posted: Feb 29, 2012 11:17 AM ET As the heads of major space agencies gather in this country to discuss the future of the International Space Station, Canada has yet to commit itself to remaining involved in the orbiting lab beyond 2015. ... "Not having committed to being on the space station for another five years certainly makes our partners wonder whether we will continue to be part of space at all," said Iain Christie, president of the Neptec Design Group, in a recent interview. Ottawa-based Neptec made the laser-camera system that was used to inspect for damage on the exterior of the recently retired U.S. space shuttles. Given that a number of industry projects are supported by the Canadian Space Agency's $424.6 million current annual budget, its upcoming decisions carry deep financial implications for space-sector players, like Neptec. The agency, like other federal bodies, is preparing for major budget cuts this year. In an email to The Canadian Press, the Canadian Space Agency said only that "Canada is in the process of evaluating the possibility of continued operations through 2020." read more here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/02/29/science-international-space-station.html(and on a related note, Canada is in the process of reviewing its aerospace & space policy, but the 'final decision' won't be until the fall sometime)
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Chris Bergin
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« Reply #4 on: 02/29/2012 07:20 PM » |
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Presser:
Neptec applauds Canada’s intention to renew its commitment to
the International Space Station
OTTAWA, February 29, 2012 – Neptec Design Group, a leader in spaceflight engineering, today welcomed the announcement by the Government of Canada that Canada intends to join its international partners in renewing its commitment to the International Space Station until 2020. Canada is one of 15 international partners – along with the U.S., Russia, Japan and Europe – in ISS, a unique, orbiting research lab focused on cutting-edge science and research.
"This is excellent news; it marks a clear sign that Canada intends to continue to play a role as one of the world’s pre-eminent, space-faring nations," said Neptec President Iain Christie. “Neptec has a long history of participating in the manned space exploration program, and this announcement means we’ll continue to find opportunities where we can use our long experience and hard earned expertise into the next decade."
Neptec’s technology, including its Space Vision System (SVS) was used to help assemble the ISS and its TriDAR vision system will be used to help guide Orbital Sciences Cygnus resupply vehicle to the ISS when resupply flights begin later this year.
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robertross
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« Reply #5 on: 02/29/2012 08:35 PM » |
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Hang on, Robert - there's some good news! 
"As the heads of major space agencies gather in this country to discuss the future of the International Space Station, Canada has finally committed itself to remaining involved in the orbiting lab beyond 2015."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/02/29/science-international-space-station.html
Thanks Canada - ISS now has support from all international partners for operations to 2020.
I just came on the post what I read on CBC news. THANK YOU CANADA!!!!!! YAY! (now for beyond 2020) 
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PeterAlt
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« Reply #6 on: 03/01/2012 12:39 PM » |
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So, what does this mean exactly? That they'll continue to support the robotic arm until 2020? Replace failed parts?
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robertross
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« Reply #7 on: 03/01/2012 01:00 PM » |
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So, what does this mean exactly? That they'll continue to support the robotic arm until 2020? Replace failed parts?
Replacement parts would have to be paid for by someone, so Canada would likely chip in for the cost of said units in barter for time allocation on the ISS (whether that be a Canadian crew member or experiment run time). It also means the Canadian Space Agency will allocate resources to the ISS project, which also includes public awareness, support of training for other crews on Robotics ops, and so on. That infrastructure cost is not cheap (engineers salaries & support staff, overhead, ect).
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Space Pete
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« Reply #8 on: 03/01/2012 01:15 PM » |
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I hope Canada can secure some extra crew slots on ISS thru 2020. If ISS goes to 7 crew once commercial come online, that should present some opportunities.
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robertross
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« Reply #9 on: 03/01/2012 02:07 PM » |
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I hope Canada can secure some extra crew slots on ISS thru 2020. If ISS goes to 7 crew once commercial come online, that should present some opportunities.
I hope so too. With Chris Hadfield already going up soon, fullfilling Canada's contribution, I would imagine 1-2 crew for a 6-month stay as part of our newest astronaut selection group (perhaps even in preparation for future lunar activites/commitments)
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Space Pete
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« Reply #10 on: 03/01/2012 06:37 PM » |
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RELEASE : 12-066
International Space Station Heads of Agencies Joint Statement WASHINGTON -- The heads of the International Space Station (ISS) agencies from Canada, Europe, Japan, Russia and the United States met in Quebec City, Canada, on March 1, 2012, to review the scientific, technological, and social benefits being produced through their collaboration, and to discuss plans for further broadening these benefits by continuing to advance the human exploration of space. In reviewing the history of ISS development and the recent transition to a productive research and applications phase, three major areas of success were discussed: the historic engineering achievements, the unprecedented international partnership, and the ongoing progress being made through science. The heads noted that human exploration of space continues to yield valuable benefits to society and is strengthening partnerships among space-faring nations. The heads also recognized the new opportunities for discovery made possible by maximizing the research capabilities of the ISS, as well as the growth in commercial endeavors and positive educational impact brought about by this permanent human presence in space. Biology, biotechnology, and human physiology research are producing new insights into human health on Earth with the development of promising applications supporting future medical therapies. Also a wide range of fluids and materials research yields a promising way for better and smarter materials and production processes on Earth. Observations captured from the ISS in the fields of x-ray astronomy, high-energy particle physics, and Earth remote sensing hint at discoveries to come as the ISS is increasingly used as a platform for the installation and operation of a wide variety of instruments supporting Earth and Space Sciences. Technology demonstrations in environmental control, robotic servicing, and advanced telecommunications and teleoperations are making it possible to eventually further extend human presence in space and continue to broaden improvements to the quality of life on Earth. Recognizing the inspirational nature of the ISS as a human-tended outpost in space, the agency leaders applauded its strong role in motivating young people around the world to learn about science, technology, engineering and mathematics. More than 40 million students have participated in human spaceflight to date through communications downlinks and interactive experiments with station crew members. Highlighting the continued growth in the international user community, the first biannual “International Space Station Utilization Statistics” was released. The partnership also published “International Space Station Benefits for Humanity,” illustrating specific successful humanitarian accomplishments in education, human health, Earth observation and disaster response that will improve the lives of many throughout the world. The ISS partnership began considering long-range opportunities to further advance human space exploration, so benefits from the ISS program will continue to grow through future exploration missions. In the near term, the heads of agencies committed to increase use of the ISS as a test bed in space for the demonstration of critical technologies and the mitigation of human health risks for exploration as a joint effort. For the long-term, they discussed opportunities to use the ISS as a foundation for the development of future exploration capabilities. The ISS partnership has created a global research facility in space that is unprecedented in capability and unique in human history. The heads of agency re-confirmed the importance of using the facility to benefit society today and provide a technological basis for continued human exploration of space in the future. To read the “International Space Station Benefits for Humanity,” visit: www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/benefits/index.htmlFor more information about the ISS, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/stationhttp://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/mar/HQ_12-066_ISS_HOA_Statement.html
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Space Pete
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« Reply #11 on: 03/01/2012 08:09 PM » |
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With Chris Hadfield already going up soon, fullfilling Canada's contribution, I would imagine 1-2 crew for a 6-month stay as part of our newest astronaut selection group (perhaps even in preparation for future lunar activites/commitments) Some good news in this article: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20120229/canada-conference-future-space-station-120229/Steve MacLean, head of the Canadian Space Agency, called Canada's continued commitment to the space station "a major milestone." He suggested it would lead to another Canadian astronaut visiting the space station before 2020.
"The relationship is basically a mathematical formula," MacLean explained. "If we are a member (of the ISS) we accumulate so many credits per year.
"We have credits until 2015 and now that we've extended our participation ... we will accumulate credits for another five years and, yes, it does mean more Canadians will fly on the International Space Station before 2020."
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yg1968
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« Reply #12 on: 03/01/2012 08:40 PM » |
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From the same CTV News article: A spokesman for Paradis said the financial details of Canada's extended commitment to the ISS will be included in the next federal budget. The Canadian federal budget is set for March 29th 2012.
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Space Pete
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« Reply #13 on: 03/01/2012 08:43 PM » |
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Ready to Launch! A New Website Sharing Space Station Benefits For HumanityWhen the International Space Station was first imagined, the idea was to create an unprecedented research platform to support microgravity investigations for the benefit of all humankind. That goal is now a reality, and researchers have not waited for completion to begin working on studies to build on our knowledge of science and technology in space. Because of this, we can already see some amazing breakthroughs. So just what has the space station yielded to humankind? You can discover the benefits for yourself, thanks to another international collaborative effort. Working together, the station partners launched the International Space Station Benefits for Humanity website on March 1. This site enables readers to look at the global progress resulting from the knowledge and technologies of the orbiting laboratory. Camille Alleyne, International Space Station assistant program scientist with NASA, explains the goals behind this new effort. "The website is a great resource for the general public and other stakeholders," Alleyne said. "It communicates the value of the International Space Station as a unique scientific and educational platform that enables discoveries that benefit all humanity." The site will be featured on all of the partner agency websites, in both English and the applicable native languages. This includes the Canadian Space Agency, or CSA; the European Space Agency, or ESA; the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, or JAXA; the Russian Federal Space Agency, or Roscosmos; and NASA. The stories contributed were the work of writers from around the world, representing each of the agencies whose collaboration took the station from conception to reality. "Working with the partners on this initiative was truly an extraordinary experience," Alleyne said. "This effort is a continued demonstration of the unprecedented achievement in international cooperation, which is one of the great values of the International Space Station." Prompted by the International Space Station Multilateral Control Board, the site will feature stories that raise awareness to the station benefits already making a difference in our world. These accounts will be updated as additional accomplishments come to light and vary in topic from education to technology to telemedicine advancements. "Users will find stories about station research that benefits humankind in the areas of human health, Earth observations and global education," Alleyne said. "Vaccine development research, station-generated images that assist in disaster relief and farming and educational projects that inspire future scientists, engineers and space explorers are some examples of research benefits. The resulting knowledge of these benefits will be extended to more countries and people for the betterment of humanity. They will be used to improve the quality of people's lives globally." The site focuses primarily on findings that are making their way into general use here on Earth. For instance, doctors are already operating with space station robotics technology when they employ the neuroArm to perform delicate surgical procedures. There are also products with the potential for worldwide impact that are on the horizon, such as vaccines to inoculate against salmonella and even advanced delivery methods of microencapsulation for cancer treatments. These are just some of the developments derived from the work done aboard the space station highlighted as part of this humanitarian website. As many efforts provide valuable conceptual and scientific data, however, researchers will continue to build upon the ever-growing body of space and microgravity knowledge. For results from specific investigations performed on the space station, readers can also visit NASA’s International Space Station Program Science Results Web page. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/news/humanities_website.html
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robertross
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« Reply #14 on: 03/02/2012 02:08 AM » |
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Ready to Launch! A New Website Sharing Space Station Benefits For Humanity
So just what has the space station yielded to humankind? You can discover the benefits for yourself, thanks to another international collaborative effort. Working together, the station partners launched the International Space Station Benefits for Humanity website on March 1. This site enables readers to look at the global progress resulting from the knowledge and technologies of the orbiting laboratory.
Finally!!! This will hopefully be the start of a greater awareness of the activities going on daily above our heads
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bolun
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« Reply #15 on: 03/02/2012 05:45 PM » |
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Some ISS Partners Ready for Chinese Participation [Global Montreal] Leaders of the international space station (ISS) partner organizations met March 1 in Quebec City, and some expressed an interest in welcoming China to their ranks, Global Montreal reported. “I am in favor of seeing how we can work together with China,” Jean-Jacques Dordain, director-general of the European Space Agency (ESA), told reporters after the meeting. “It will take some steps, but it will come, I am sure.” Vladimir Popovkin, the head of the Russian space agency, Roscosmos, said the day will come when China and India will work together with the five current partners — the United States, Russia, Canada, Japan and the ESA. “We are not a closed club,” he said. “Our doors are wide open.” NASA Administrator Charles Bolden said the partners are reaching out to other nations but the U.S. space agency is prohibited by congressional action from any bilateral activities with China. Read it at: [Global Montreal]http://www.spacenews.com/commentaries/120302-fromwires-iss-partners-chinese-participation.html
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Space Pete
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« Reply #16 on: 03/02/2012 05:55 PM » |
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I wonder what would actually happen if all the ISS partners bar the USA invited a Chinese Shenzhou to dock with the ISS. Would the US ban all Taikonauts from the US modules? What about the Russian FGB, which was financed by the US? Lest we forget, Taikonauts would have to transit through US modules in order to reach the European and Japanese modules.
Interesting to consider.
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robertross
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« Reply #17 on: 03/02/2012 09:27 PM » |
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I wonder what would actually happen if all the ISS partners bar the USA invited a Chinese Shenzhou to dock with the ISS. Would the US ban all Taikonauts from the US modules? What about the Russian FGB, which was financed by the US? Lest we forget, Taikonauts would have to transit through US modules in order to reach the European and Japanese modules.
Interesting to consider.
I don't think it would ever get that far. If the USA said 'NO', then I would think it unlikely it would ever dock/berth to the ISS. Whether they would decide NOT to change the law is more interesting (imo). (thanks for your money, but keep away...)
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Nicolas PILLET
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« Reply #18 on: 03/02/2012 10:57 PM » |
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If the USA said 'NO', then I would think it unlikely it would ever dock/berth to the ISS. USA said 'NO' to Dennis Tito in 2001...
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HappyMartian
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« Reply #19 on: 03/03/2012 04:47 AM » |
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If the USA said 'NO', then I would think it unlikely it would ever dock/berth to the ISS.
USA said 'NO' to Dennis Tito in 2001...
"Dennis Anthony Tito (born August 8, 1940, in Queens, New York) is an Italian American engineer and multimillionaire, most widely known as the first space tourist to fund his own trip into space. In mid-2001, he spent nearly eight days in orbit as a crew member of ISS EP-1, a visiting mission to the International Space Station. This mission was launched by the spacecraft Soyuz TM-32, and was landed by Soyuz TM-31." From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_TitoYep. Dennis Tito, despite his Master of Science degree in Engineering Science from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, got a no go from NASA. Yet he still managed to get to the ISS. Those Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute graduates are persistent folks. Maybe it is because: "Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, or RPI, is a private research university located in Troy, New York. It was founded in 1824 by Stephen Van Rensselaer for the 'application of science to the common purposes of life' and is the oldest technological university in the English-speaking world." From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rensselaer_Polytechnic_InstituteOther space powers seem willing to explore and make money in space with China. Eventually, so will America. Everything takes time and political wisdom. "Dordain noted it took almost 40 years to bring together and build the current partnership. It will take some time for China to join us and it will take some time to have India, South Korea, Brazil,' he added." From: Global News: Global Montreal Some space station partners appear ready to welcome China into the group by Peter Rakobowchuk Thursday, March 01, 2012 http://www.globalmontreal.com/canada/some+space+station+partners+appear+ready+to+welcome+china+into+the+group/6442592395/story.htmlHumans are trying to get their act together to create long-term LEO, L1, L2, Lunar, and Martian laboratories, propellent depots, and homes. The potential of diverse human crews and robots cooperatively doing space activities with the full participation of China, India, South Korea, Brazil, and many other nations is a bit mind boggling. Sustainable space resource exploitation will take international cooperation and massive amounts of money from many governments and companies. Those efforts in space will have a utility that is hard to place a value on, but the international trust it strengthens could be important for the survival of humans and many other species. Thank you for the update jacqmans! Cheers!
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robertross
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« Reply #20 on: 03/03/2012 09:08 PM » |
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If the USA said 'NO', then I would think it unlikely it would ever dock/berth to the ISS.
USA said 'NO' to Dennis Tito in 2001...
To a tourist, yes. I'm talking hardware here.
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veblen
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« Reply #22 on: 03/07/2012 02:33 AM » |
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China inclusion as ISS partner forum subject apparently is locked up on NSF. So I came here. Perhaps this is not good netiquette, but I wanted to point out that U.S. congresspeople, specifically Mr. Wolf, do not have touchy-feely "Koombaya, my friend" tendencies like proponents of international cooperation in space on this board and elsewhere. Wolf's beef is human rights, but others may reference ASAT test 2007, and alleged naughty hactivism, etc. http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/rep-wolf-tells-bolden-no-to-china-on-iss#.T1atybWJ3sw.twitterIn time, this may all change. But not real soon. And someone else pointed out China is doing very well in space, no need to share a space station that cannot serve to launch you further out into the solar system. And that's where China wants to go. Little robot on luna next year, if their luck holds.
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HappyMartian
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« Reply #23 on: 03/07/2012 11:13 AM » |
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China inclusion as ISS partner forum subject apparently is locked up on NSF. So I came here. Perhaps this is not good netiquette, but I wanted to point out that U.S. congresspeople, specifically Mr. Wolf, do not have touchy-feely "Koombaya, my friend" tendencies like proponents of international cooperation in space on this board and elsewhere. Wolf's beef is human rights, but others may reference ASAT test 2007, and alleged naughty hactivism, etc.
http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/rep-wolf-tells-bolden-no-to-china-on-iss#.T1atybWJ3sw.twitter
In time, this may all change. But not real soon. And someone else pointed out China is doing very well in space, no need to share a space station that cannot serve to launch you further out into the solar system. And that's where China wants to go. Little robot on luna next year, if their luck holds.
You may have forgotten, but America and Russia managed to do the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project (ASTP) in July 1975 during the middle of the bloody Cold War, and it was not a time of "touchy-feely 'Koombaya, my friend' tendencies". Saying someone is full of "touchy-feely 'Koombaya, my friend' tendencies" doesn't make it so. I'm not a person full of "touchy-feely 'Koombaya, my friend' tendencies" and yet I can see some real benefits to China, India, South Korea, and Brazil's full participation in the ISS. You may not be able to see those benefits and that's fine. Lots of folks couldn't see any benefits of the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project either. Other folks had a different perspective and saw to it that the trust building Apollo–Soyuz mission was accomplished and we all ended up 'winning' the Cold War. Cheers!
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HappyMartian
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« Reply #24 on: 03/07/2012 12:01 PM » |
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Joint statement by International Space Station Heads of Agency
5 March 2012
http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMJI85Y1ZG_index_0.html
I really enjoyed the part, "Recognizing the inspirational nature of the ISS as a human-tended outpost in space, the agency leaders applauded its strong role in motivating young people around the world to learn about science, technology, engineering and mathematics. More than 40 million students have participated in human spaceflight to date through communications downlinks and interactive experiments with station crew members." Nice Joint statement. Thank you bolun! Cheers!
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QuantumG
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« Reply #25 on: 03/07/2012 05:43 PM » |
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Other folks had a different perspective and saw to it that the trust building Apollo–Soyuz mission was accomplished and we all ended up 'winning' the Cold War.
Yep, had nothing to do with the revolutionaries of Poland.. it was all the international relations building of the space program!
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veblen
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« Reply #26 on: 03/07/2012 08:58 PM » |
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China inclusion as ISS partner forum subject apparently is locked up on NSF. So I came here. Perhaps this is not good netiquette, but I wanted to point out that U.S. congresspeople, specifically Mr. Wolf, do not have touchy-feely "Koombaya, my friend" tendencies like proponents of international cooperation in space on this board and elsewhere. Wolf's beef is human rights, but others may reference ASAT test 2007, and alleged naughty hactivism, etc.
http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/rep-wolf-tells-bolden-no-to-china-on-iss#.T1atybWJ3sw.twitter
In time, this may all change. But not real soon. And someone else pointed out China is doing very well in space, no need to share a space station that cannot serve to launch you further out into the solar system. And that's where China wants to go. Little robot on luna next year, if their luck holds.
You may have forgotten, but America and Russia managed to do the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project (ASTP) in July 1975 during the middle of the bloody Cold War, and it was not a time of "touchy-feely 'Koombaya, my friend' tendencies".
Saying someone is full of "touchy-feely 'Koombaya, my friend' tendencies" doesn't make it so. I'm not a person full of "touchy-feely 'Koombaya, my friend' tendencies" and yet I can see some real benefits to China, India, South Korea, and Brazil's full participation in the ISS. You may not be able to see those benefits and that's fine. Lots of folks couldn't see any benefits of the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project either. Other folks had a different perspective and saw to it that the trust building Apollo–Soyuz mission was accomplished and we all ended up 'winning' the Cold War.
Cheers!
HM:
I did not forget about ASTP. Richard Nixon LOVED intricate diplomatic maneuvers that enhanced his foreign policy cred. Tricky Dick was forced to resign before he could bask in the glow of that successful mission. Successful for the White House and the Kremlin that is.
IMHO, and with all due respect to the participants involved, ASTP was a waste of Apollo hardware. Taxpayer $ appropriated for moonships was diverted for a combo political-space stunt. What kind of science did we get out of ASTP? NADA. A couple more lunar missions could have told us a lot more about the moon.
You do realize that real inclusiveness includes respecting people who do not share your worldview.
Respect. And trust. What China needs to demonstrate to the U.S.A., if it cares to, prior to full partnership on ISS. Because unlike in 1970 with Nixon, President Obama faces a particularly truculent congress. Rep Wolf is but one example.
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HappyMartian
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« Reply #27 on: 03/08/2012 09:43 AM » |
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Other folks had a different perspective and saw to it that the trust building Apollo–Soyuz mission was accomplished and we all ended up 'winning' the Cold War.
Yep, had nothing to do with the revolutionaries of Poland.. it was all the international relations building of the space program!
Everything worked together. I respect what happened in Poland. I'm 1/4 Polish. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. Canada hosts the International Space Station Heads of Agencies Meeting is the subject of this thread. Try commenting on: Joint statement by International Space Station Heads of Agency
5 March 2012
http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMJI85Y1ZG_index_0.html
Cheers!
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HappyMartian
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« Reply #28 on: 03/08/2012 02:06 PM » |
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....
HM:
I did not forget about ASTP. Richard Nixon LOVED intricate diplomatic maneuvers that enhanced his foreign policy cred. Tricky Dick was forced to resign before he could bask in the glow of that successful mission. Successful for the White House and the Kremlin that is.
IMHO, and with all due respect to the participants involved, ASTP was a waste of Apollo hardware. Taxpayer $ appropriated for moonships was diverted for a combo political-space stunt. What kind of science did we get out of ASTP? NADA. A couple more lunar missions could have told us a lot more about the moon.
You do realize that real inclusiveness includes respecting people who do not share your worldview.
Respect. And trust. What China needs to demonstrate to the U.S.A., if it cares to, prior to full partnership on ISS. Because unlike in 1970 with Nixon, President Obama faces a particularly truculent congress. Rep Wolf is but one example.
Respect and trust is mutual or it boils down to bullying. China has already demonstrated that it is an attractive and trusted potential ISS partner to some of the countries that are already ISS partners. All of Congress will decide the American position on this issue, not any small group of Congressional folks. You might want to write something about the Joint statement by International Space Station Heads of Agency instead of impugning the actions and reputation of former President Richard Nixon. Generally speaking, it is considered bad manners to malign the integrity, wisdom, or judgement of a person who is dead and cannot defend himself or herself. Space missions often have a critical international political aspect that is initially as important or even far more important than the long-term implications of their scientific results. NASA is mostly about winning hearts and minds around the world. "Recognizing the inspirational nature of the ISS as a human-tended outpost in space, the agency leaders applauded its strong role in motivating young people around the world to learn about science, technology, engineering and mathematics." From: Joint statement by International Space Station Heads of Agency 5 March 2012 At: http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMJI85Y1ZG_index_0.htmlIn 1969 we had demonstrated our technical prowess and ability to go to the Moon. In 1975, we needed to show to the world that we could work together with the Soviet Union in space and on the Earth. That was the next logical political step and the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project did help to build trust around the world in the USA as a mature, flexible, wise, and open society that could work with any other society on the planet Earth, no matter what our strong political differences were. Serious space cadets need to think about how everyone on the planet sees the "inspirational nature of the ISS as a human-tended outpost in space" and space exploration in general. Space cadets need to be inclusive of all the diverse political and economic realities on our spaceship Earth. International politics is how we have justified expensive space programs in the past and will continue to be how expensive space programs will be justified in the future. If folks around the world see the International Space Sation and space exploration as an excellent motivator to get their children to study science and participate in the international exploration of space, then those same folks will want their country to be a participant in the International Space Station. Not allowing some countries to be involved with the ISS would be considered a slap in the face of the children of those countries that are excluded, no matter what flimsy and lame excuse is tossed around to justify such exclusions. Ignoring the real needs of the leaders and other adults in those excluded countries to inspire their children to get a good education and participate in an important and exciting international activity would be the exact opposite of 'winning hearts and minds' and would negate a large part of the purpose of NASA and the ISS. "NASA administrator Charles Bolden pointed out that the five partners are reaching out to other non-traditional nations. 'We have encouraged each other to go out and try to find people who would not have an opportunity to enjoy this incredible facility that we have and bring them in as best we can,' he said." From: Some space station partners appear ready to welcome China into the group At: http://www.globalmontreal.com/canada/some+space+station+partners+appear+ready+to+welcome+china+into+the+group/6442592395/story.htmlYep. "Respect. And trust." That is what America demonstrated to the world in 1975 with the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project. And yes, we need to do the same thing today by including as many new International Space Station participants and Partners as possible. Cheers!
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veblen
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« Reply #29 on: 03/08/2012 11:21 PM » |
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HM:
I did not forget about ASTP. Richard Nixon LOVED intricate diplomatic maneuvers that enhanced his foreign policy cred. Tricky Dick was forced to resign before he could bask in the glow of that successful mission. Successful for the White House and the Kremlin that is.
IMHO, and with all due respect to the participants involved, ASTP was a waste of Apollo hardware. Taxpayer $ appropriated for moonships was diverted for a combo political-space stunt. What kind of science did we get out of ASTP? NADA. A couple more lunar missions could have told us a lot more about the moon.
You do realize that real inclusiveness includes respecting people who do not share your worldview.
Respect. And trust. What China needs to demonstrate to the U.S.A., if it cares to, prior to full partnership on ISS. Because unlike in 1970 with Nixon, President Obama faces a particularly truculent congress. Rep Wolf is but one example.
"Respect and trust is mutual or it boils down to bullying. China has already demonstrated that it is an attractive and trusted potential ISS partner to some of the countries that are already ISS partners."
Any specifics? Russia plumping for China, I can imagine. I mean look at how those two countries support al-Assad at the U.N. Nice.
"All of Congress will decide the American position on this issue, not any small group of Congressional folks."
Well then, please quote a congressperson who is publicly going to bat for China as ISS full partner. And have you read the National Aeronautics and Space Act? If you did, you would see that it mentions "the health and welfare of the United States", many many times. Not the United Nations, or ISS partners, or some other vague thing. Its basic obligations are to the taxpayers of the United States of America. Congress is bound by that.
"You might want to write something about the Joint statement by International Space Station Heads of Agency instead of impugning the actions and reputation of former President Richard Nixon. Generally speaking, it is considered bad manners to malign the integrity, wisdom, or judgement of a person who is dead and cannot defend himself or herself."
You can't be serious. Have you ever heard of Watergate?
"Space missions often have a critical international political aspect that is initially as important or even far more important than the long-term implications of their scientific results. NASA is mostly about winning hearts and minds around the world."
This is where we part ways. I am primarily interested in space, space exploration and the gaining of new knowledge about alien worlds. But to you NASA is just a political tool. For political ends. I find that boring, incorrect and sad.
"Recognizing the inspirational nature of the ISS as a human-tended outpost in space, the agency leaders applauded its strong role in motivating young people around the world to learn about science, technology, engineering and mathematics."
Yup, math and science are important. Lots of Chinese students studying science and engineering, for eg. They are not doing this because of the existence of ISS though. Dare I say, even after ISS is de-orbited, math and science will continue to be important. Even if there were NO space exploration at all these last 50 years, math and science would still be important.
From: Joint statement by International Space Station Heads of Agency
5 March 2012 At: http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMJI85Y1ZG_index_0.html
"In 1969 we had demonstrated our technical prowess and ability to go to the Moon. In 1975, we needed to show to the world that we could work together with the Soviet Union in space and on the Earth. That was the next logical political step and the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project did help to build trust around the world in the USA as a mature, flexible, wise, and open society that could work with any other society on the planet Earth, no matter what our strong political differences were."
After going to the moon, ASTP was the next logical step? Only to the earth-bound politicians, like Richard Nixon, who was not a real fan of space exploration. If he could get a benefit from space, he was enthusiastic. Hence, ASTP.
Serious space cadets need to think about how everyone on the planet sees the "inspirational nature of the ISS as a human-tended outpost in space" and space exploration in general. Space cadets need to be inclusive of all the diverse political and economic realities on our spaceship Earth.
I do not agree with you or your worldview. I am not a relativist. Some political, cultural and economic realities trump coercive inclusiveness. I would not go into space with a country that committed genocide against its own people, as an eg. And I love space. At some point you have to draw the line. Those may not be your values, but they are mine.
And who are you calling a "space cadet"?
"International politics is how we have justified expensive space programs in the past and will continue to be how expensive space programs will be justified in the future."
Sharing the financial burden of space exploration makes sense. But as I said before, money, as with politics, is only one facet of a space-faring partnership. Trust is earned, not bought.
If folks around the world see the International Space Sation and space exploration as an excellent motivator to get their children to study science and participate in the international exploration of space, then those same folks will want their country to be a participant in the International Space Station.
STEM is nice and commendable. With or without the ISS.
Not allowing some countries to be involved with the ISS would be considered a slap in the face of the children of those countries that are excluded, no matter what flimsy and lame excuse is tossed around to justify such exclusions.
Earth to Happy Martian: why don't you let the representatives of the taxpayers who bore the largest (at least 70%, a lot more if you include shuttle flights, without which, no ISS would be zooming around up there in LEO to begin with) financial burden to build ISS, make that decision? And remember, these reps are bound by the Space Act. I say to you, earth-bound STEM stuff, to me, is a lame excuse wrt ISS partnership. STEM important, ISS or no ISS.
"Ignoring the real needs of the leaders and other adults in those excluded countries to inspire their children to get a good education and participate in an important and exciting international activity would be the exact opposite of 'winning hearts and minds' and would negate a large part of the purpose of NASA and the ISS."
You are confusing the U.N. with NASA, and one of its big and politically meddled-with projects (Bill Clinton, another pol who didn't much care about space, except for what space could do for him), the International Space Station.
"NASA administrator Charles Bolden pointed out that the five partners are reaching out to other non-traditional nations.
'We have encouraged each other to go out and try to find people who would not have an opportunity to enjoy this incredible facility that we have and bring them in as best we can,' he said."
You know, I like Charlie Bolden. With economic constraints in mind, he may be preparing for the future day when NASA, trying to get to Mars and back to the moon on a BFR, dispenses with ISS. Let somebody else run a station in LEO that cannot be used to get further out into the solar system. And let them worry about maintenance and the de-obit headaches.
From: Some space station partners appear ready to welcome China into the group At: http://www.globalmontreal.com/canada/some+space+station+partners+appear+ready+to+welcome+china+into+the+group/6442592395/story.html
"Yep. "Respect. And trust." That is what America demonstrated to the world in 1975 with the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project. And yes, we need to do the same thing today by including as many new International Space Station participants and Partners as possible."
Believe me, I could respect and trust the USA after the Apollo lunar missions and before ASTP. What "we" need to do today is foster commercial activities in space. Along those lines, this may include Space-X or ULA partnering on ISS. Why restrict ISS partnership to nation states? If more the merrier is your thing?
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Robotbeat
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« Reply #30 on: 03/09/2012 12:46 AM » |
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You must edit your quote tags!
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