.. and with that comment Jim just made my ignore list. Jesus people, what's so hard about being civil to each other?
Here's where I disagree to an extent.
If someone says something, as if it is fact and they are certain its fact and it is in reality, total baloney, then I don't see the problem with somewhat strong language being used to point that out.
I think while Jim was rough, perhaps a bit too rough, he was in fact civil.
Also, if you start putting people on your ignore list your never going to see the full conversations that occur on here and are thus going to miss large parts of the discussion, however uncivil they maybe, and will thus be somewhat less informed than the rest of us. This is why I dislike this idea of an "ignore" option. Simply shying away from other people's opinions (and facts in some cases) is not a solution, neigh, it is in-fact part of the reason why we have the modern economic mess that we do, and no one on the hill is willing to solve it.
Ignoring people doesn't solve problems.
The comment was kinda out of line.
I think it was also was an insult to the engineers at Lockheed who felt at the time they had a better design.
In the an LM engineer's own words the lifting CEV was a Mars return reentry vehicle they worked backwards into a Lunar reentry vehicle.
The truth is Griffin and Horowitz simply wanted every last detail their way or not at all.
BTW my few million on aero testing probably is low ball but at most going to the older saved at most 150 to 200 million.
That's if you wish to have lots of arcjet time and maybe launch some models on sounding rockets to fill in the gaps in the CFD models with the new shape.
It also should be noted CFD back in 1966 was nothing like CFD modeling today.
The fastest machine during much of Apollo development was the CDC 6600 at 3MIPS a cell phone today is probably well over 100 times faster then this.
Super computers can be billions of times faster.
Sure the math is the same but the difference is the number of data points.
The proof new aero work is not insurmountable or even difficult enough to drive up the cost of a project significantly is Space-X's vehicle yes it's a capsule but it's different enough new data was needed.
Now back on topic one issue I have with an ATV derived SM is bus standards.
Orion may look retro but the guts are all new and it's a project that was started almost a decade later.
Not sure what standards are used on Orion but Spacex made big claims about using modern high speed buses in their vehicles.