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EirikV
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« Reply #315 on: 09/24/2011 11:32 PM » |
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On the lighter side of things, A danish married couple reportedly called the police after discovering "satellite parts" on their porch this morning. It turned out to be an old printer cartridge with the letters "NASA" written on it with a permanent marker. http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10039191 (choose translate in Google Chrome)
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sdsds
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« Reply #316 on: 09/24/2011 11:32 PM » |
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Given the satellite was on a trajectory which would have taken it very close to Portland had it gone long
Actually, the trajectory was midway between Portland and Seattle, passing north of Mt. Saint Helens, near Morton, WA.
Now we're quibbling. That's about 150 km. When a F-15 pilot kicks in the afterburners and goes to Mach 2.7, that's like ... what? Three minutes of flight time? 150 km / 0.9 km/sec / 60 sec/min = 2.8 minutes
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ginahoy
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« Reply #317 on: 09/25/2011 01:15 AM » |
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Now we're quibbling. That's about 150 km. When a F-15 pilot kicks in the afterburners and goes to Mach 2.7, that's like ... what? Three minutes of flight time? Sorry, I read too much into your comment... thinking you were suggesting fighters would somehow defend Portland against incoming satellite parts. Silly, actually. OTOH, launching a recon mission on a deorbiting piece of space junk, uh, well...
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kevin-rf
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« Reply #318 on: 09/25/2011 02:08 AM » |
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There's a Sea-Based X-band radar somewhere out there, and it's hard to believe a nice tracking opportunity would be passed up. Here's an instance of orbital bombardment of debris, of objects re-entering the atmosphere off the coast of the US, and no one bothered to point any assets at it?
1. I believe it is still in dry dock... http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/2011/07/19/massive-radar-not-leaving-seattle/2. Ballistic missiles fly trajectories that are much higher the UARS was at the end, it may have been below the radar's horizon. 3. We have no idea what if any assets where used or not used. There is no for the to tell us, and many reasons not to.
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Targeteer
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« Reply #319 on: 09/25/2011 03:45 AM » |
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Agreed, I conclude came down over Pacific, maybe a little early - SE of Hawaii with debris footprint stopping short of the Washington/Oregon coast.
But I am surprised if orbiting DSP satellites over the Pacific can't see the IR from the reentry - really? Or are we in a situation where one part of USSTRATCOM is not talking to the other part? - seems unlikely too.
USSTRATCOM stopped releasing DSP-derived information on meteor entries a couple of years ago, presumably out of some sort of security worry. So, while it seems extremely likely that they saw the UARS entry, I'm not too surprised that they aren't releasing the information. And if they didn't see it, I want a tax refund.
The DOD did release data on one fairly recent event of interest over the Pacific--the last unsuccessful launch of the Taepo Dong 2 when it tried to launch a satellite. The statement was very short but stated that the launch had failed and that no other information would be released. I think I posted that statement into a thread...
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ChileVerde
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« Reply #320 on: 09/25/2011 03:08 PM » |
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There's a Sea-Based X-band radar somewhere out there, and it's hard to believe a nice tracking opportunity would be passed up. Here's an instance of orbital bombardment of debris, of objects re-entering the atmosphere off the coast of the US, and no one bothered to point any assets at it?
1. I believe it is still in dry dock... http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/2011/07/19/massive-radar-not-leaving-seattle/
No, it left Seattle on August 20. The putative reentry occurred over a part of the Pacific SBX tends to hang around, so there is some modest chance it was seen. However,
2. Ballistic missiles fly trajectories that are much higher the UARS was at the end, it may have been below the radar's horizon.
is quite correct. For SBX to have had a look at UARS' reentry would have required a bit of luck.
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rickl
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« Reply #321 on: 09/25/2011 03:13 PM » |
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For what it's worth, the printing company where I work recently printed engine room logbooks for that, um, vessel.
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ChileVerde
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« Reply #322 on: 09/25/2011 04:03 PM » |
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USSTRATCOM stopped releasing DSP-derived information on meteor entries a couple of years ago, presumably out of some sort of security worry. So, while it seems extremely likely that they saw the UARS entry, I'm not too surprised that they aren't releasing the information. And if they didn't see it, I want a tax refund.
The problem with this view, the implicit trust of omniscient government, is that incompetence/ignorance is always a safer bet than omniscience. Furthermore, if that information were available, all the USSTRATCOM officer needed to do was give a re-entry time and location, without indicating the source. Even without a time or location, the AF could have definitively said yes the satellite was down. This was not done, which very strongly suggests to me the AF and NASA had no clue. This is a little unnerving, from a strategic weakness point of view.
Oh, I agree that there's no logical reason the AF shouldn't have given out the kind of general information you suggest. But it's been my experience that sweet reason doesn't always carry the day when security/secrecy matters are decided.
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ChileVerde
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« Reply #323 on: 09/25/2011 04:07 PM » |
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For what it's worth, the printing company where I work recently printed engine room logbooks for that, um, vessel.
This has nothing to do with space (well, not much), but the whole SBX story from beginning until now is really weird.
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Zed_Noir
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« Reply #324 on: 09/25/2011 05:59 PM » |
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There's a Sea-Based X-band radar somewhere out there, and it's hard to believe a nice tracking opportunity would be passed up. Here's an instance of orbital bombardment of debris, of objects re-entering the atmosphere off the coast of the US, and no one bothered to point any assets at it?
1. I believe it is still in dry dock... http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/2011/07/19/massive-radar-not-leaving-seattle/
Why would you need that floating radar. As I understand it. Any Aegis radar equipped ships can be use as a Ballistic Battlefield Management radar for tracking inbound targets. Such a radar tracks the target moving away from the radar toward it's destination. Our forum administrator Chris Bergin is currently near the RAF Fylingdales BMEWS site operating a Battlefield Management radar pointing toward North America.
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kevin-rf
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« Reply #325 on: 09/25/2011 09:40 PM » |
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Our forum administrator Chris Bergin is currently near the RAF Fylingdales BMEWS site operating a Battlefield Management radar pointing toward North America.
Yeah, you always have to keep an eye on what those Canadians are up to  btw. SBX is a space flight (be it suborbital) tracking asset and most likely, like launch pads and test stands, deserves it's own thread.
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ChileVerde
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« Reply #326 on: 09/25/2011 09:59 PM » |
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btw. SBX is a space flight (be it suborbital) tracking asset and most likely, like launch pads and test stands, deserves it's own thread.
It's actually exercised, like its little cousin the AN/TPY-2 radar, against LEO satellites. I don't know that it's a regular contributor to the satellite catalog, but it could be if there were the need.
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Integrator
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« Reply #327 on: 09/26/2011 10:37 AM » |
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A good lesson and food for thought when considering
HOW WILL WE DEORBIT ISS??
INTEGRATOR
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JimO
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« Reply #328 on: 09/26/2011 10:55 AM » |
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Aspiring Calgary filmmaker created satellite hoax Tweets claimed space junk crashed in Okotoks field By Bryce Forbes, Calgary Herald September 25, 2011 // bforbes@calgaryherald.comhttp://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Aspiring+Calgary+filmmaker+created+satellite+hoax/5456974/story.html'People will take whatever you give them' 0 Calgary filmmaker admits pushing satellite Oko-hoax First posted: Sunday, September 25, 2011 11:54 PM MDT http://www.calgarysun.com/2011/09/26/people-will-take-whatever-you-give-themMy posted comment: Problem was, he happened to be located exactly along the track that UARS was following and the timing was good for it falling then. Also, observers in Edmonton had reported a fireball south of that city. Calgary weather radar did show a strange streak at a place coincident with the expected UARS path. And there were no other even remotely credible claims elsewhere in the world in the hours afterwards. So briefly there appeared to be enough 'straws in the wind' that artificially created the illusion of independent corroboration. Sigh. I used to hope the odds were right and nobody would ever get hurt by falling satellites. I now hope that's wrong, and somebody does get badly hurt by the next big fall [next month], and his initials are SS. ADD Re Orson Welles and the 'War of the Worlds' radio hoax: (photo) Jim (with beard) and Orson Welles on Dick Cavett show, 1981 -- "Orson, you know, we're going to invade Mars" http://www.jamesoberg.com/image/jim-orson-welles.jpg
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