Author Topic: Argentina's SLV development  (Read 24186 times)

Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #30 on: 10/10/2013 02:42 PM »
Argentina's CONAE might  test Tronador/VEX 1 October 12-17 at 35-31.26S 057-11.3W

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #31 on: 10/11/2013 01:56 PM »
Argentina's CONAE might  test Tronador/VEX 1 October 12-17 at 35-31.26S 057-11.3W
Source? El diario de Punta de Indio? Ojo que ese no es el lugar de lanzamiento y me hace pensar que es un ensayo sin lanzamiento.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #32 on: 11/10/2013 12:32 AM »
Apparently CONAE did a press day in Las Pipinas, Punta de Indio, Buenos Aires Province with the VEX-1, the first technological demonstrator for the Tronador II project. Apparently it's, basically, the upper stage, with a flight GNC, and the mission objective is to demonstrate the avionics (GNC). They are planning a total of 6 demonstrator missions. The plan is to launch on 2015 Sept NET for the orbital capable Tronador II Tecnológico (this might imply a technology demonstrator). Budget is 2B Pesos (287M at today exchange rate) in the next three years.

VEX 1
Length: 14.5m
Weight: >3tonnes
Launch: next few weeks.

The article (Spanish)
A youtube video (Spanish)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #33 on: 11/10/2013 12:35 AM »
Some of the screencaps of the video on the InfoBAE article:

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #34 on: 11/10/2013 12:36 AM »
And some more.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #35 on: 11/12/2013 04:01 AM »
It's incredible to think that with this launch we are waiting to see a "failure" to find what's wrong. According to Varotto the chances of succes are 10%. Of course it's a test, and there is not such thing as a failure. 8)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #36 on: 11/15/2013 02:45 PM »
It's incredible to think that with this launch we are waiting to see a "failure" to find what's wrong. According to Varotto the chances of succes are 10%. Of course it's a test, and there is not such thing as a failure. 8)
Varotto knows about managing expectations. Look at the failure of the T4000. It was a very shameful failure. And look at any other on-off project. Aborts and failure are the norm. That's the route CONAE has chose. Which given the budget and experience I think is a wise one. They lack the infrastructure, experience and budget to do a system egineering heavy approach like current NASA/DoD. So small and evolving is the most reasonable way to go. Which, incidentally, is how all other space powers did it originally.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #37 on: 11/15/2013 09:38 PM »
Yes, you are right! Varotto is being very carefull about this project. He is aware that any little thing could shut down the project (by internal or external forces). I'm not an expert in the subject but I notice that the rocket engine nozzle is pretty weir, isn´t it? Not the cup form that I usually saw, especially being this the second stage which should work at low pression.  This is a recent photo of VEx-1 at launch pad (not mine). Hablamos en inglés siendo los dos argentinos pero supongo que hay que hacerlo para dejar el tema abierto a los demás. Saludos. ;)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #38 on: 11/24/2013 02:11 PM »
From http://www.hidro.gov.ar/Nautica/Radioav/radioCRP.asp:

Quote
** RIO de la PLATA 1930 23/11/13 **
----------------------------------------
PROVINCIA DE BUENOS AIRES
RIO DE LA PLATA MEDIO Y EXTERIOR
CARTA H-116

PROHIBIDA NAVEGACION PESQUERA Y DEPORTIVA POR LANZAMIENTO SATELITE TRONADOR II,
DIA 29 DE NOV POR LA MAÑANA, EN EL ÁREA DETERMINADA POR:
PSN 35-31.26S 057-11.3W Y RADIO DE 7 KM.

Short version: forbidden navegation on Nov 29 in the described zone due to the launch of the VEX.

The referenced chart (Carta H-116) is the Exterior Rio de la Plata and can be downloaded from here.
« Last Edit: 11/24/2013 02:29 PM by baldusi »

Offline lbiderman

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #39 on: 11/29/2013 11:23 PM »
From http://www.hidro.gov.ar/Nautica/Radioav/radioCRP.asp:

Quote
** RIO de la PLATA 1930 23/11/13 **
----------------------------------------
PROVINCIA DE BUENOS AIRES
RIO DE LA PLATA MEDIO Y EXTERIOR
CARTA H-116

PROHIBIDA NAVEGACION PESQUERA Y DEPORTIVA POR LANZAMIENTO SATELITE TRONADOR II,
DIA 29 DE NOV POR LA MAÑANA, EN EL ÁREA DETERMINADA POR:
PSN 35-31.26S 057-11.3W Y RADIO DE 7 KM.

Short version: forbidden navegation on Nov 29 in the described zone due to the launch of the VEX.

The referenced chart (Carta H-116) is the Exterior Rio de la Plata and can be downloaded from here.

No news yet. I have a "contact" inside CONAE, I'll ask her if they where able to pull the launch off.
"If I wanted to lead a bunch of robots that could only follow orders, I would have joined the Army!"
Captain Alvarez (Uruguay Marine Corps) in Congo (MONUC Deployment), March 2007

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #40 on: 12/06/2013 02:24 PM »
New interviews:

Part 1


Part 2


Interesting tidbits:
VEX is the experiments and will be launched from Pipinas, Punta de Indio. They expect to launch four times.

The Tronador II will have a complex built right next to the Navy's Puerto Belgrano Base.
Note from me: The Navy is ceding the plot, but they'll use some range and safety infrastructure from the launch base. The ideal position that they wanted was 50 km south of Pinamar, but since they have planned an hipergolic propellent plant, the EIS didn't pass. Further north was too populated, and the base was the only place where they could get the EIS approved. It's a former range, if I'm not mistaken.
Everything is being developed from scratch.
All the complex design are preliminary.
Rocket and fuel will be produced on site (apparently)


Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #41 on: 12/09/2013 01:05 PM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).
« Last Edit: 12/09/2013 01:06 PM by baldusi »

Offline lbiderman

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #42 on: 12/19/2013 12:55 PM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).

What's our local expertise on handling kerolox engines? As far as I know, none. Do we know if it's pressure-fed or turbopump-fed?
"If I wanted to lead a bunch of robots that could only follow orders, I would have joined the Army!"
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #43 on: 12/20/2013 02:02 AM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).

What's our local expertise on handling kerolox engines? As far as I know, none. Do we know if it's pressure-fed or turbopump-fed?
The rumors and system design do point to a 30tnf turbopump-fed gas generator design. All procurement documents on 30tnf engine have always talked about turbopump. And I doubt they'll do anything but gas generator cycle with kerosen. The experience is, basically, null. But many have started with kerolox, since it's the easiest combination to handle and one of the easiest to start (of the non hypergolic). It's the correct choice, in my humble opinion. Big hypergolic were not only ridiculously dangerous, but given the desire of CONAE to clearly stay out of military application technologies, they would create a lot of international problems.
If they pull this out, this is gonna be an extremely interesting project. They had stated that they expected a USD 6M price for a 500kg to a 400km polar orbit. If they achieve that, they'll have a very interesting product. I seriously doubt they can achieve that cost on the first try, though.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #44 on: 12/24/2013 08:41 PM »
CONAE officials have confirmed RP-1 as fuel. It will be produced by YPF. And they did stated that they needed the RP-1 because its used for cooling. So they are confirming regenerative cooling.
On a different note, the SAOCOM-1A was stated to launch in 2015 and the SAOCOM-1B in 2016.

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