Author Topic: Argentina's SLV development  (Read 28854 times)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #15 on: 11/22/2011 10:01 PM »
Let me add another picture of the FAS 1500 and a note of the Tronador II.

Edit: New picture from behind of the FAS 1500 "Fenix" model. And new information:

Both Gradicom/Orbit and FAS 1500 are HTPB solid rocket. But, apparently, the FAS 1500 uses 280mm engines taken from the Sonda I sounding rocket and the fuselage from the Castor sounding rocket.
« Last Edit: 11/23/2011 06:43 PM by baldusi »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #16 on: 12/06/2011 01:13 PM »
More news about the T4000! Pictures taken 25th of Nov 2011. They are stating that it will fly by December this year.
I love that they do have a sense of humor.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #17 on: 12/07/2011 02:03 PM »
Rumors on the forums are that yesterday they tried to launch the T4000, and they couldn't ignite it. They also told me that it lacks a turbopump, so it's probably pressure fed. At the same time, the picture appears to show an ablative nozzle.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #18 on: 12/14/2011 12:01 PM »
Ok, this was worse than I imagined. Apparently, the T4000 didn't had a purge. So after the launch failure, they had to "safe it" with a MAG. Yes, they shoot the tanks with a MAG from an helicopter! Apparently they shoot 50 shots, 15 were on target. This way they emptied the tanks.
I don't know what to say. Please someone tell me this is SOP. I always thought you could purge an hypergolic rocket. Or is there any particular problem of doing such a thing?

Online Skyrocket

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #19 on: 12/14/2011 04:20 PM »
...
So after the launch failure, they had to "safe it" with a MAG. Yes, they shoot the tanks with a MAG from an helicopter! ...

This reminds me, that one of the US Viking sounding rockets in the 1950ies failed to lift of and had also been shot to relief the tank pressure and to prevent the vehicle from bursting. The Viking was saved by being shot and was later patched and conducted an successful flight.

Offline Nahavandi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #20 on: 01/02/2012 11:05 PM »
BTW, could a mod change the Thread's title to "Argentina's Launch Vehicle development" or something like that?

I'll change it right now .

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #21 on: 05/14/2012 03:50 PM »
Not exactly about the LV, but the comm sats that we are launching next year have their coverage maps online:
http://www.arsat.com.ar/satelites.html

Offline Nahavandi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #22 on: 05/14/2012 05:28 PM »
Not exactly about the LV, but the comm sats that we are launching next year have their coverage maps online:
http://www.arsat.com.ar/satelites.html

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #23 on: 07/06/2012 02:09 PM »
This is a Presentation of August 23th, 2011 by CONAE. There's some info about the SAC-D, some info about the CONAE's Falda del Carmen testing lab (shakers, vacuum chamber, anechoic chamber, etc.) for small sats. Then there's some information about the SAOCOM, with weight, measures, and a very interesting organizational chart. The B&W image is made by the SARAT, an aircraft borne SAR for development purposes of the SAOCOM subsystems.
And last, there's the latest concept of the Tronador II. It's a lot more logical from what I see:

LEO orbital launcher
Polar Orbits at altitude 600km
Maximum payload: 250kg (it's not clear if it it that to 600km or the maximum of the LV).
Built in Argentina
Launched in Argentina

Total Length: 27m
Total Weight: 60 tonnes
Dry Weight: 8 tonnes
First Stage: Diameter 2.5m, Thrust 90tonnes force.
Second Stage: Diameter 2.5m, Thrust 30tonnes force.
Third Stage: Diameter 1.5m, Thrust 4tonnes force.

Offline osiossim

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #24 on: 07/09/2012 12:12 PM »
Dear baldusi,

I always wonder about the rationale behind Argentina's launch vehicle development program.

Can you share some ideas about it?

Offline spaceStalker

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #25 on: 07/09/2012 02:03 PM »
Prestige + ICBM's, the usual..

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #26 on: 07/09/2012 02:28 PM »
We had an ICBM (Condor II), and atomic technology, we simply decided not to pursue. In fact, many US nuclear war heads have Argentinian material. I won't say, though, that the fact that Brazil is doing a SLV isn't part of the motivation, though.
The truth is the we have developed a relatively advanced satellite capabilities upto 3.5 tonnes. But the national aerospace agency, CONAE, is betting on a segmented (or fractional) satellite architecture, like the DARPA F5 architecture. Thus they need really small launchers for cheap. They had an objective of 6M per launch for a 250kg payload to a 600km SSO. I don't really think they can pull it off, I think everybody who tried it has failed (see Pegasus, SpaceX, etc.). And it's probably that if anybody achieves those prices will be with an evolution of XCOR, Masten or Armadillo, rather than the equivalent of Scud technology. They do appear to have taken a page from SpaceX. As they apparently will use the same engine for first and second stage.
And they have some experience with hypergolic propellents from the satellite thrusters and the T4000 project will end up making the third stage engine. My guess is that they are also developing an indigenous kick engine for satellites. Basically, you can't share much technology from a modern LV with your satellite industry, but you can with hypergolics.

Online kevin-rf

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #27 on: 07/09/2012 03:45 PM »
In fact, many US nuclear war heads have Argentinian material.

Source?
Are trampolines safe?

Offline Downix

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #28 on: 07/09/2012 04:25 PM »
In fact, many US nuclear war heads have Argentinian material.

Source?
Argentina was a prime source of Uranium for US warheads for a long period, currently supplied through companies such as Blue Sky and Calypso.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #29 on: 09/11/2012 07:19 PM »
According to this article:
The failed T4000 was a test of the TVS system. It failed to ignite due to a valve. The planned impulse time was just 10 seconds.
The current plan has six stages, called VEX. Only four are talked about and I'll correct some mistakes that I'm assuming they are makings.

VEX 1: One stage. Apparently it will weight 1.8tonnes and have a 4tnf engine (the articles states it the other way around, which doesn't makes any sense). Apparently is a 30 seconds mission with an optional additional 30 seconds. Budgeted for 2013/14.
VEX 2: First Stage will use 3 x 4tnf engines. Second Stage will use a 4tnf engine. Budgeted for 2014/15/16.
VEX 3: One 30tnf engine. Budgeted from 2015 onwards.
VEX 4: One 30tnf engine.
VEX 5: First Stage 3 x 30tnf and Second Stage 1 x 30tnf + RSC (new development). Apparently it will stage at 80km.

I've mixed the information on the article with the information from the Budget Office. Just download the Excel, items 57125 (VEX I), 57126 (VEX II) and 57630 (VEX III).

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