Author Topic: Soyuz-MS spacecraft  (Read 18484 times)

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« on: 08/11/2011 04:34 PM »
RKK Energuia has just made a strange annoucement :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2011/news_08-11.html
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline iontyre

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #1 on: 08/11/2011 04:43 PM »
Well, it might be strange, but I can't get it to come up in English...?

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #2 on: 08/11/2011 04:51 PM »
That is because the press release has been published just several moments ago.
Let's them time to publish the English translation ! ;-)
Nicolas PILLET
kosmonavtika.com : The French site on Russian Space

Offline Prober

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #3 on: 08/11/2011 07:59 PM »
That is because the press release has been published just several moments ago.
Let's them time to publish the English translation ! ;-)

I used a quick google trans.  I read the info to lock in with the other story I posted.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26414.0
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Offline zaitcev

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #4 on: 08/11/2011 10:13 PM »
RKK Energuia has just made a strange annoucement :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2011/news_08-11.html

What is "strange" about the presser? It's just a regular meeting of Sci-Tech Council that rubber-stamped the MS mods. The only "strange" thing is that the development is hitting the milestones on time, very unusual! As far as the content of MS, apparently it's all the same old, same old: replacement of obsolete components, the Life After The Periscope, enhancements to Neptun and The Death Of Pointer Stick. I don't find Toyota refreshing Camry for 2012 model year "strange", do you?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #5 on: 08/12/2011 06:24 AM »
The NK forum guys came up with little more than jokes on this one. Apparently, changing the designation for Soyuz has come as a bit of a surprise, since TMA-M was just introduced.

I get the impression that TMA-M is going to test a series of modifications which together will make up the new "MS" variant.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #6 on: 08/12/2011 01:55 PM »
Couldn't this include the mods necessary for Soyuz-2b?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #7 on: 08/12/2011 02:07 PM »
Couldn't this include the mods necessary for Soyuz-2b?

My impression is that the mods described by Energia would cause Soyuz to lose mass, which is the opposite of what is required for Soyuz 2-1b. A lighter Soyuz and a more capable LV mean that existing drop zones will be unusable.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #8 on: 08/12/2011 02:46 PM »
Couldn't this include the mods necessary for Soyuz-2b?

My impression is that the mods described by Energia would cause Soyuz to lose mass, which is the opposite of what is required for Soyuz 2-1b. A lighter Soyuz and a more capable LV mean that existing drop zones will be unusable.

Would Soyuz be volume limited? Couldn't they simply add more cargo/fuel? Or at that point the LAS becomes the limiting factor? If so it would seem to me that the Soyuz would be limited to the Soyuz-2a. Since it's about 17% cheaper, doesn't seems to be a problem (unless you want a significantly higher ISS).
On the other hand, the Progress MS on Soyuz-2b should put a significant bigger amount of cargo, wouldn't it? It would seem interesting to understand how does this relates to the Progress that's supposed to bring the MLM.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #9 on: 08/12/2011 04:53 PM »
Couldn't this include the mods necessary for Soyuz-2b?

My impression is that the mods described by Energia would cause Soyuz to lose mass, which is the opposite of what is required for Soyuz 2-1b. A lighter Soyuz and a more capable LV mean that existing drop zones will be unusable.

Would Soyuz be volume limited? Couldn't they simply add more cargo/fuel? Or at that point the LAS becomes the limiting factor? If so it would seem to me that the Soyuz would be limited to the Soyuz-2a. Since it's about 17% cheaper, doesn't seems to be a problem (unless you want a significantly higher ISS).
On the other hand, the Progress MS on Soyuz-2b should put a significant bigger amount of cargo, wouldn't it? It would seem interesting to understand how does this relates to the Progress that's supposed to bring the MLM.

There are controlability issues for Soyuz that do not exist for Program M1 if attempts are made to fill the OM (BO) with significant amounts of additional cargo; of course the LAS would present problems with an extra ton of mass on Soyuz.

Online hop

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #10 on: 08/12/2011 04:53 PM »
It would seem interesting to understand how does this relates to the Progress that's supposed to bring the MLM.
The MLM will be launched on Proton. No relation at all.

The Russian space industry seems to be undergoing a period of designation inflation where each minor incremental upgrade receives a new designation. Just in case that wasn't confusing enough, they frequently invent a new nomenclature for each new designation ;)

Offline Space Pete

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #11 on: 08/15/2011 01:41 PM »
August 11, 2011. S.P. Korolev RSC Energia, Korolev, Moscow region

The Corporation Scientific-Technical Board (STB) meeting was held at S.P. Korolev Rocket & Space Corporation Energia where the main results of work on the preliminary design of the new series transport vehicles such as manned Soyuz MS and cargo Progress MS were reviewed.

The meeting was led by STB Chairman, First Deputy General Designer of RSC Energia, RAS academician V.P. Legostaev.

The following participants were involved in the Board work: the Corporation President, General Designer V.A. Lopota, First Vice-President of RSC Energia, General Director of ZEM RSC Energia A.F. Strekalov, First Vice-President of RSC Energia, First Deputy General Designer N.I. Zelenschikov, representatives of Federal Space Agency (ROSCOSMOS), machine-building TsNII, the Customer offices, managers, scientists and specialists of the Corporation, enterprises and organizations participating in the project development.

The managers reports of the Corporation design and specialized subdivisions were heard at the meeting, in which the main directions of modernization of the onboard systems and structure of the new series space vehicles were stated.

STB adopted a decision to approve the results of work on the preliminary design of space vehicles and submit the developed technical documentation for the mentioned projects by the established procedure to make an examination.


For reference:

1. The preliminary designs are developed by RSC Energia at per Roscosmos Statement of Work with the involvement of co-operation of the aviation-space complex enterprises and organizations of the Russian Federation industry.
2. The vehicle onboard systems modernization is aimed to use the up-to-date equipment and devices produced by RF industry instead of those to be withdrawn or withdrawn from production and also to improve the reliability and functional capabilities of the onboard systems including those based on the use of navigation systems GLONASS/GPS and satellite system Kospas-Capcam as well.



http://www.energia.ru/en/news/news-2011/news_08-11.html
Electronic Engineer by day, NASASpaceflight's ISS Editor by night | Read my NASASpaceflight articles here

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #12 on: 08/15/2011 03:27 PM »
Now that I'm reading it again. Could they be referring to Kurs?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #13 on: 08/15/2011 05:16 PM »
Now that I'm reading it again. Could they be referring to Kurs?

One of the rumors floating around is that a Soyuz-TMA-M flight in 2013 will test Kurs-NA, which would then be a standard feature on Soyuz-MS.

My understanding that Kurs-NA is functionally identical to Kurs-CM, the current flavor, just modernized, ie using integrated circuits.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #14 on: 08/15/2011 06:09 PM »
Now that I'm reading it again. Could they be referring to Kurs?

One of the rumors floating around is that a Soyuz-TMA-M flight in 2013 will test Kurs-NA, which would then be a standard feature on Soyuz-MS.

My understanding that Kurs-NA is functionally identical to Kurs-CM, the current flavor, just modernized, ie using integrated circuits.


Didn't the Kurs also had some Ukranian components? Wouldn't this allow them to have a 100% Russian Kurs? Besides, I understand the Kurs was developed when Soyuz had the processing power of a calculator. Couldn't they add some new mode to allow more precise approach? One that allowed it to dock with an IDSS?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #15 on: 08/15/2011 06:16 PM »
Now that I'm reading it again. Could they be referring to Kurs?

One of the rumors floating around is that a Soyuz-TMA-M flight in 2013 will test Kurs-NA, which would then be a standard feature on Soyuz-MS.

My understanding that Kurs-NA is functionally identical to Kurs-CM, the current flavor, just modernized, ie using integrated circuits.


Didn't the Kurs also had some Ukranian components? Wouldn't this allow them to have a 100% Russian Kurs? Besides, I understand the Kurs was developed when Soyuz had the processing power of a calculator. Couldn't they add some new mode to allow more precise approach? One that allowed it to dock with an IDSS?

The current Kurs system was manufactured in the Ukraine. I suspect that the boxes are being refurbished after missions, but there are probably diminishing stocks of them, due to failures and cannibalization.

The Russians have been wanting to replace the Ukrainian boxes with Russian boxes (Kurs-NA), but there also has been a desire to create a totally new improved version of Kurs (Kurs-MM).  The latest rumor indicates that the near term plan is to go with Kurs-NA, which is functionally identical to the current boxes. That means that there is no requirement to update the Kurs system on ISS to interface with the updated system, the same antennas and Kurs-P at ISS will still work. To go with a millimeter based system, ISS Kurs would have to be upgraded, and that is a big deal.

Offline patchfree

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #16 on: 08/16/2011 04:32 PM »
I think that one of innovations of the Soyouz (and Progress) MS series will be use of the GPS/Glonass in the trajectory of the spacecraft (and also for landing of cosmonautes). This was previously announced amoung the successive improvements of the spacecraft: Visor replaced by video, new solar pannels, use of GPS, and so on...

The surprise went only from the attribution of a new name.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #17 on: 12/17/2012 06:48 AM »
Do we have any new information on this? Recent graphics would be appreciated if available. According to Interfax UK the first flight of Soyuz MS series is delayed by one year to early 2016.

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft
« Reply #18 on: 12/17/2012 08:28 PM »
Do we have any new information on this? Recent graphics would be appreciated if available. According to Interfax UK the first flight of Soyuz MS series is delayed by one year to early 2016.

There were several Russian press reports on this latest Soyuz upgrade last year. This is one of the more detailed ones, based on an interview with RKK Energiya chief Vitaliy Lopota at last year's MAKS air show :

http://www.spacecorp.ru/press/branchnews/item2048.php

He described the main modifications as follows :

- higher power output from the solar panels through the use of more efficient photovoltaic cells
- different arrangement of the approach and orientation thrusters which should make it possible to achieve docking even if one of the engines fails or perform a safe de-orbit burn even "if there are two failures in the engines"
- a new system of mutual measurements for approach and docking. Instead of the optical device now used for control and manual orientation of the vehicle, a so-called "video orientator" is being developed whose work will not be hampered by orbital lighting conditions as is currently the case
- improved communications systems
- the old command radio link will be replaced by a unified command/telemetry system which will make it possible to receive telemetry via satellite and control the vehicle when it is not within sight of Russian ground stations
- GLONASS/GPS receivers which after parachute deployment and after touchdown will make it possible to send exact coordinates to Mission Control via the Kospas/Sarsat system

This should be the last major Soyuz upgrade before the new-generation manned vehicle is introduced. As usual, some of the modifications will be initially tested on Progress vehicles called Progress-MS.

Note that other sources have referred to the vehicle as Soyuz TMA-MS.




Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Soyuz-MS spacecraft (aka Soyuz TMA-MS)
« Reply #19 on: 12/17/2012 08:48 PM »
Thanks for the info.

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