Author Topic: SpaceX: Merlin 1D thread  (Read 195808 times)

Online ugordan

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #435 on: 09/30/2012 10:50 PM »
Sounds high, but if you take published M1d thrust and Isp numbers and assuming it uses the same chamber and has the same mass flow as regular M1d, that seems to work out to about 343 sec Isp. Pretty much the target for the original MVac.

Offline GBpatsfan

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #436 on: 09/30/2012 10:57 PM »
Copied from the "general" thread:-
First picture of the Merlin 1D-Vac:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/252528724602400768
Quote
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Now test firing our most advanced engine, the Merlin 1D-Vac, at 80 tons of thrust. pic.twitter.com/HGK1joVQ

Does this match the expected thrust for M1D vac?

cheers, Martin
From SpaceX website Merlin Engine(presumably M-1D) Vacuum Thrust:   161,000 lbf

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #437 on: 09/30/2012 11:40 PM »
Copied from the "general" thread:-
First picture of the Merlin 1D-Vac:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/252528724602400768
Quote
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Now test firing our most advanced engine, the Merlin 1D-Vac, at 80 tons of thrust. pic.twitter.com/HGK1joVQ

Does this match the expected thrust for M1D vac?

cheers, Martin
From SpaceX website Merlin Engine(presumably M-1D) Vacuum Thrust:   161,000 lbf

Think that's for the regular version of the Merlin 1-D.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #438 on: 10/01/2012 05:09 PM »
Thanks for the update.

Updated table to show the possible Test article? vac thrust value for 80mt.

EngineMerlin 1DVAC (Design)Merlin 1DVAC (Test article)Merlin 1DVAC (Production)
Vac Thrust174klbf?176klbf??
Vac isp348s?(an educated WAG)??
T/W160???
Chamber Pressure1410psi???
Expansion??>117?(this was the MVAC value)
Throttle range70-100%???
Engine weight >440kg???
Costs<M1CVAC?-?

There are still a lot of unknowns but this is the best validation of the estimates we have had so far.

Online Prober

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #439 on: 10/01/2012 06:45 PM »
Old Atlas, know I shouldn't be thinking this but....

What would you get if the 1.1D Vac was fired at SL?   That F12 is still bugging me. 

Edit:   good place to learn something anyhow.


« Last Edit: 10/01/2012 06:45 PM by Prober »
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Online modemeagle

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #440 on: 10/01/2012 07:26 PM »
Old Atlas, know I shouldn't be thinking this but....

What would you get if the 1.1D Vac was fired at SL?   That F12 is still bugging me. 

Edit:   good place to learn something anyhow.



I am not OldAtlas_Eguy, but here is my estimated data.

Sea Level - 168 seconds - 87,253 lbf
Design - 336 seconds - 174,674 lbf (used in my simulation to change ISP by altitude)
Vacuum - 345 seconds 179,310 lbf

Estimated nozzle exit pressure is 0.74 psi.  Flow seperation at sea level would be very bad and probably kill the isp lower then 168 seconds estimated.


* Estimated data by MODEMEAGLE

Offline WHAP

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #441 on: 10/02/2012 03:55 PM »
Copied from the "general" thread:-
First picture of the Merlin 1D-Vac:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/252528724602400768
Quote
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Now test firing our most advanced engine, the Merlin 1D-Vac, at 80 tons of thrust. pic.twitter.com/HGK1joVQ

Does this match the expected thrust for M1D vac?

cheers, Martin
From SpaceX website Merlin Engine(presumably M-1D) Vacuum Thrust:   161,000 lbf

Think that's for the regular version of the Merlin 1-D.

Why are people sure Elon meant 80 tonnes when he wrote 80 tons?
« Last Edit: 10/02/2012 03:56 PM by WHAP »

Offline kch

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #442 on: 10/02/2012 04:09 PM »
Copied from the "general" thread:-
First picture of the Merlin 1D-Vac:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/252528724602400768
Quote
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Now test firing our most advanced engine, the Merlin 1D-Vac, at 80 tons of thrust. pic.twitter.com/HGK1joVQ

Does this match the expected thrust for M1D vac?

cheers, Martin
From SpaceX website Merlin Engine(presumably M-1D) Vacuum Thrust:   161,000 lbf

Think that's for the regular version of the Merlin 1-D.

Why are people sure Elon meant 80 tonnes when he wrote 80 tons?

They're "seeing" what they want to see -- it happens a lot.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #443 on: 10/02/2012 04:10 PM »
As long as it is within 10 percent or so, I doubt he cares.
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Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #444 on: 10/02/2012 04:39 PM »
South Africa after 1977 was fully metric only, so this is the measument system environment in which Elon Musk grew up. He left South Africa in 1988. The default "ton" definition to someone who used only metric and very little English measurments would be the metric ton.

http://ukma.org.uk/south-african-experience

So the interpretation of metric ton for this tweet has a foundation.

Online modemeagle

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #445 on: 10/02/2012 05:01 PM »
My numbers are about a year old and based on scaling the M1D with a vacuum optimized nozzle.  If I was within 10% of the final data then I figured I was doing good.  I also used lower thrust data in my simulations and found FH could reach orbit with almost 70% of my estimated data.

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #446 on: 10/02/2012 11:48 PM »
Copied from the "general" thread:-
First picture of the Merlin 1D-Vac:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/252528724602400768
Quote
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Now test firing our most advanced engine, the Merlin 1D-Vac, at 80 tons of thrust. pic.twitter.com/HGK1joVQ

I asked in the general thread, but my question was buried in the big long argument about T-shirts...  ::)

...what's the big ring around the base of the nozzle? The regen manifold is visible separately above it, so I know it's not that.

Offline go4mars

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #447 on: 10/02/2012 11:57 PM »
It also could be read the other way...  That they tested it at 80.  Not that it's rating is for 80. 
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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #448 on: 10/03/2012 12:07 AM »
Copied from the "general" thread:-
First picture of the Merlin 1D-Vac:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/252528724602400768
Quote
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Now test firing our most advanced engine, the Merlin 1D-Vac, at 80 tons of thrust. pic.twitter.com/HGK1joVQ

I asked in the general thread, but my question was buried in the big long argument about T-shirts...  ::)

...what's the big ring around the base of the nozzle? The regen manifold is visible separately above it, so I know it's not that.
If you look in the background you will see a flex below the turbo pump.  Notice the dark streaks in the exhaust.  Compare it to the F-1 and the only conclusion is the turbo pump exhaust is pumped into the nozzle.

Offline neilh

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Re: SpaceX: Merlin 1D Updates thread
« Reply #449 on: 10/03/2012 12:18 AM »
Copied from the "general" thread:-
First picture of the Merlin 1D-Vac:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/252528724602400768
Quote
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Now test firing our most advanced engine, the Merlin 1D-Vac, at 80 tons of thrust. pic.twitter.com/HGK1joVQ

I asked in the general thread, but my question was buried in the big long argument about T-shirts...  ::)

...what's the big ring around the base of the nozzle? The regen manifold is visible separately above it, so I know it's not that.

This is a totally random uneducated guess, but would the ring make sense as a mounting point for a retractable nozzle?
Someone is wrong on the Internet.
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